Catholic Q&A 3

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Ambugaton wrote: Can the insane go to hell? By insane I mean people with impaired ability to differentiate between right and wrong. [/quote]The real question is can the insane go to heaven? My answer? I don’t know the intricacies of God’s saving grace beyond what he has revealed. ALL of those chosen by Him for salvation are saved and all those who are not aren’t. I have no idea who they are and they may very well include some or all who are mentally impaired. I believe all infants and the unborn are elect in Christ because in the absence of biblical evidence to the contrary it make me feel good.

[quote]Karado wrote:<<< In other words: “Karado we don’t want to be challenged with the tough questions about the hard to crack and virtually impossible to convert Japanese, give me the easy stuff to talk about”.[/quote]They’re not a tough question to me. Got some tough ones?

[/quote]

I’m talking about when I clicked quote, it’s all one long paragraph.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Fair enough Chris. I’m glad to see that though you don’t know what I’m saying or quoting you DO know it’s heresy AND disagree. You didn’t pick up a spirit of divination somewhere did you? =][/quote]I’m talking about when I clicked quote, it’s all one long paragraph.[/quote]That’s what my pretty uniform posts look like before the tagging is rendered by the forum software. I have some trickery I use for that Christopher. Just because you’re one my favorite people I just may share all that with you.

“People aren’t damned simply by the fact that they aren’t Christians…”

Wow, TV preachers say otherwise, including that Tammy Faye lookin’ Poofy Pink Haired Lady sitting on that opulent Throne-Like Chair on TBN…Where exactly can we find that one doesn’t have to be Christian
to be saved in Scripture?
Honestly, the lack of anger and outrage at how Christianity is broadcast on the airwaves is astonishing
by the most seemingly erudite here…No outrage, it’s just…“LA DEE DA, I’m erudite, I know more than Karado, and I turn the other way at how Millions are being decieved by most TV Preachers because it doesn’t matter.”

Even “King Kai” was easily offended when I asked him the other day where he got his Christian Education, he thought
it was “personal” question…REALLY??
I didn’t ask him his real name, where he lived, how many kids he has, or his social security number,
just to point in the direction where he’s learning his stuff because it truly sounds like it can
actualy edify a person a bit more…little by little.

I’m not sure where to post this but I believe this is the right place. I can’t post a link now, but the article is about how a GOP candidate said something along the lines of,‘a pregnant rape is God’s will,’ or something like that. So my question is, is everything predetermined? Does God determine everything that happens in the World? I believe in free will, but this question always gets me. Thanks in advance guys!

While not universally the case most big media preachers are reprehensible charlatans who I have denounced numerous times here. The worst deceptions out there are from pseudo Christian heretics (not just or even primarily on TV) to be sure. I agree. Just to throw it out there? You have no idea what I or anyone else does off these boards.

[quote]stefan128 wrote:
I’m not sure where to post this but I believe this is the right place. I can’t post a link now, but the article is about how a GOP candidate said something along the lines of,‘a pregnant rape is God’s will,’ or something like that. So my question is, is everything predetermined? Does God determine everything that happens in the World? I believe in free will, but this question always gets me. Thanks in advance guys![/quote]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]stefan128 wrote:
I’m not sure where to post this but I believe this is the right place. I can’t post a link now, but the article is about how a GOP candidate said something along the lines of,‘a pregnant rape is God’s will,’ or something like that. So my question is, is everything predetermined? Does God determine everything that happens in the World? I believe in free will, but this question always gets me. Thanks in advance guys![/quote]
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/free_will

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/the_key_to_everything

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/metaphysics_the_actual_key_to_everything[/quote]

Honestly, I don’t feel like reading through all those threads. Could someone just give me a short, concise answer, that I am able to understand. Most times when reading threads like these, they are hard for me to comprehend.

[quote]stefan128 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]stefan128 wrote:
I’m not sure where to post this but I believe this is the right place. I can’t post a link now, but the article is about how a GOP candidate said something along the lines of,‘a pregnant rape is God’s will,’ or something like that. So my question is, is everything predetermined? Does God determine everything that happens in the World? I believe in free will, but this question always gets me. Thanks in advance guys![/quote]
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/free_will

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/the_key_to_everything

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/metaphysics_the_actual_key_to_everything[/quote]

Honestly, I don’t feel like reading through all those threads. Could someone just give me a short, concise answer, that I am able to understand. Most times when reading threads like these, they are hard for me to comprehend.[/quote]

There is no short, concise answer.

If you’re not willing to “read through all those threads” you aren’t really that interested in the answer.

This is not Flex Magazine’s PWI forum, dude. We’re here to learn.

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]stefan128 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]stefan128 wrote:
I’m not sure where to post this but I believe this is the right place. I can’t post a link now, but the article is about how a GOP candidate said something along the lines of,‘a pregnant rape is God’s will,’ or something like that. So my question is, is everything predetermined? Does God determine everything that happens in the World? I believe in free will, but this question always gets me. Thanks in advance guys![/quote]

Honestly, I don’t feel like reading through all those threads. Could someone just give me a short, concise answer, that I am able to understand. Most times when reading threads like these, they are hard for me to comprehend.[/quote]

There is no short, concise answer.

If you’re not willing to “read through all those threads” you aren’t really that interested in the answer.

This is not Flex Magazine’s PWI forum, dude. We’re here to learn. [/quote]

Correct. In fact when I reach the last page of a thread Im interested in, I cry and watch Friends.

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]stefan128 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]stefan128 wrote:
I’m not sure where to post this but I believe this is the right place. I can’t post a link now, but the article is about how a GOP candidate said something along the lines of,‘a pregnant rape is God’s will,’ or something like that. So my question is, is everything predetermined? Does God determine everything that happens in the World? I believe in free will, but this question always gets me. Thanks in advance guys![/quote]

Honestly, I don’t feel like reading through all those threads. Could someone just give me a short, concise answer, that I am able to understand. Most times when reading threads like these, they are hard for me to comprehend.[/quote]

There is no short, concise answer.

If you’re not willing to “read through all those threads” you aren’t really that interested in the answer.

This is not Flex Magazine’s PWI forum, dude. We’re here to learn. [/quote]And a big amen to Cortes. Undisciplined intellectual laziness is rapidly becoming the hallmark of many younger westerners. They can spend 12 hours on a video game, but five minutes of actually meaningful mind testing exercise is way outta the question. This is not however universally true and we have some rather lively specimens frolicking about these very forums.
EDIT:If you are really interested, read at least one and ask questions there if you get lost. Honestly I felt a litle bad at how abruptly I answered you. Those kinds of topics are not every day fare for a lotta people and it can be easy to become overwhelmed at first. However, there really isn’t a quick answer and people have differing views which is unfortunate because all they have to do is adopt mine and they would have the truth =]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]stefan128 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]stefan128 wrote:
I’m not sure where to post this but I believe this is the right place. I can’t post a link now, but the article is about how a GOP candidate said something along the lines of,‘a pregnant rape is God’s will,’ or something like that. So my question is, is everything predetermined? Does God determine everything that happens in the World? I believe in free will, but this question always gets me. Thanks in advance guys![/quote]

Honestly, I don’t feel like reading through all those threads. Could someone just give me a short, concise answer, that I am able to understand. Most times when reading threads like these, they are hard for me to comprehend.[/quote]

There is no short, concise answer.

If you’re not willing to “read through all those threads” you aren’t really that interested in the answer.

This is not Flex Magazine’s PWI forum, dude. We’re here to learn. [/quote]And a big amen to Cortes. Undisciplined intellectual laziness is rapidly becoming the hallmark of many younger westerners. They can spend 12 hours on a video game, but five minutes of actually meaningful mind testing exercise is way outta the question. This is not however universally true and we have some rather lively specimens frolicking about these very forums.
EDIT:If you are really interested, read at least one and ask questions there if you get lost. Honestly I felt a litle bad at how abruptly I answered you. Those kinds of topics are not every day fare for a lotta people and it can be easy to become overwhelmed at first. However, there really isn’t a quick answer and people have differing views which is unfortunate because all they have to do is adopt mine and they would have the truth =][/quote]

There is just no way to avoid the heavy lifting in these areas of enquiry if one wants to remotely have a grasp on the issues, and I think both you and Cortes were right to be abrupt and to the point. Wtf is up with all this ‘I don’t wanna read , spoon feed me the Cliff notes version’?

[quote]Karado wrote:
“People aren’t damned simply by the fact that they aren’t Christians…”

Wow, TV preachers say otherwise, including that Tammy Faye lookin’ Poofy Pink Haired Lady sitting on that opulent Throne-Like Chair on TBN…Where exactly can we find that one doesn’t have to be Christian
to be saved in Scripture?
Honestly, the lack of anger and outrage at how Christianity is broadcast on the airwaves is astonishing
by the most seemingly erudite here…No outrage, it’s just…“LA DEE DA, I’m erudite, I know more than Karado, and I turn the other way at how Millions are being decieved by most TV Preachers because it doesn’t matter.”

Even “King Kai” was easily offended when I asked him the other day where he got his Christian Education, he thought
it was “personal” question…REALLY??
I didn’t ask him his real name, where he lived, how many kids he has, or his social security number,
just to point in the direction where he’s learning his stuff because it truly sounds like it can
actualy edify a person a bit more…little by little.
[/quote]

Your tact sucks.
And what precisely are we to do about TV preachers from the '70’s and '80’s? Seriously, if that’s all you know about Christianity then it’s your own damn fault. You apparently haven’t even looked at anything in 30 years.
Big brouhahas aren’t really effective. Christians are won a person at a time. It’s when that person opens their heart to God, that’s when a Christian is made.

[quote]stefan128 wrote:
I’m not sure where to post this but I believe this is the right place. I can’t post a link now, but the article is about how a GOP candidate said something along the lines of,‘a pregnant rape is God’s will,’ or something like that. So my question is, is everything predetermined? Does God determine everything that happens in the World? I believe in free will, but this question always gets me. Thanks in advance guys![/quote]

That’s not really what he meant, and in any case he should not have said it. It’s a stupid thing to say.

There is a faction of Christianity under the banner of Calvinism that believes in predetermination (see tirib), most do not. The idea behind in a nut shell goes to “who are you to question God”, except God doesn’t say that. It’s not really scriptural it’s an interpretation and a bad one in my opinion. It’s fatalistic and hopeless.
Now Cotes is right in the general argument Freewill vs. Determinism is a complicated one from pa philosophical stand point. You cannot really ‘prove’ determinism and you cannot disprove freewill. Ironically, outside of Calvinism the greatest proponents for determinism are atheists. Short answer is: no God does not force, determine or compel people to do evil.

[quote]stefan128 wrote:
I’m not sure where to post this but I believe this is the right place. I can’t post a link now, but the article is about how a GOP candidate said something along the lines of,‘a pregnant rape is God’s will,’ or something like that. So my question is, is everything predetermined? Does God determine everything that happens in the World? I believe in free will, but this question always gets me. Thanks in advance guys![/quote]

Did he will it? No. Was his will to allow it to happen by not stopping it? Yes. So, to the first question, it can be yes depending on how you’re looking at it. God’s not oblivious to his children’s affairs and is handicap from involving himself in them. However, that does not necessitate that he made someone do evil (especially moral evil)

God allows evils to happen for the greater good. This is known.

[quote]pat wrote:<<< Big brouhahas aren’t really effective. Christians are won a person at a time. It’s when that person opens their heart to God, that’s when a Christian is made. [/quote]Despite the wooden Catholic phrasing this not too bad at all Pat. Ya scare me sometimes.

[quote]pat wrote:<<< There is a faction of Christianity under the banner of Calvinism that believes in predetermination (see tirib), >>>[/quote] See Tirib and the majority of the delegates to the first constitutional convention at the founding of this once great nation. Faction LOL!!! [quote]pat wrote:<<< most do not. >>[/quote]And look how much better off we are now!!! [quote]pat wrote:<<< The idea behind in a nut shell goes to “who are you to question God”, except God doesn’t say that. >>>[/quote] Romans 9:18-21 18-So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19-You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will”? 20-But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this” 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

Hmmm. It looks like God actually does say that Pat. [quote]pat wrote:<<< It’s not really scriptural >>>[/quote]But it like really is though. [quote]pat wrote:<<< It’s fatalistic and hopeless. >>>[/quote]There are a few people here who know what is going on in my life right now. Pat, my dear old friend. My unshakable faith in the all governing decree and providence of an uncontingent almighty God in whose hand and by whose will my every breath is drawn is the ONLY thing that opens my eyes every morning. If I had to believe like you that MY faithfulness is what will see me through? I’d blow my brains out right now. Fatalistic and hopeless he says. Your God is a pathetic simpering weakling, wringing his hands in the hope that somebody will believe in Him.

Mine knew my name and gave me to His Son before He created the universe. All this time, dozens and dozens of posts and you have still have utterly ZEEROH comprehension of what I believe. Anybody who wants to know what I think should ask anybody other than my old pal Pat. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Now Cotes is right in the general argument Freewill vs. Determinism is a complicated one from a philosophical stand point. >>>[/quote] It’s an ultimately incomprehensible one from any standopint not grounded in faith in the one true and living God. [quote]pat wrote:<<< You cannot really ‘prove’ determinism and you cannot disprove freewill. >>>[/quote] I can and have. By the commonly accepted definitions of those two seemingly irreconcilable concepts. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Ironically, outside of Calvinism the greatest proponents for determinism are atheists. >>>[/quote] Actually that would be muslims. Who have a truly pagan fatalistic concept of determinism. With all due affection and respect to my buddy squating_bear. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Short answer is: no God does not force, determine or compel people to do evil.[/quote] Bless the Lord Pat you are absolutely correct. I have spelled this out to you in excruciating biblically philosophical terms more times than I can count. Even Cortes will not charge me with the belief that God coerces the will of man. I will find my quotes if I must. I have cited the confession of 1646 at least 25 times where the Westminster assembly denies that “violence” is done to the human will.

BTW. Email me would ya please. I want to talk to you about something that has nothing to do with any of this. Somebody please quote this so he can see it. He has me on ignore. It won’t take long to figure out why.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< Big brouhahas aren’t really effective. Christians are won a person at a time. It’s when that person opens their heart to God, that’s when a Christian is made. [/quote]Despite the wooden Catholic phrasing this not too bad at all Pat. Ya scare me sometimes.

[quote]pat wrote:<<< There is a faction of Christianity under the banner of Calvinism that believes in predetermination (see tirib), >>>[/quote] See Tirib and the majority of the delegates to the first constitutional convention at the founding of this once great nation. Faction LOL!!! [quote]pat wrote:<<< most do not. >>[/quote]And look how much better off we are now!!! [quote]pat wrote:<<< The idea behind in a nut shell goes to “who are you to question God”, except God doesn’t say that. >>>[/quote] Romans 9:18-21 18-So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19-You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will”? 20-But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this” 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

Hmmm. It looks like God actually does say that Pat. [quote]pat wrote:<<< It’s not really scriptural >>>[/quote]But it like really is though. [quote]pat wrote:<<< It’s fatalistic and hopeless. >>>[/quote]There are a few people here who know what is going on in my life right now. Pat, my dear old friend. My unshakable faith in the all governing decree and providence of an uncontingent almighty God in whose hand and by whose will my every breath is drawn is the ONLY thing that opens my eyes every morning. If I had to believe like you that MY faithfulness is what will see me through? I’d blow my brains out right now. Fatalistic and hopeless he says. Your God is a pathetic simpering weakling, wringing his hands in the hope that somebody will believe in Him.

Mine knew my name and gave me to His Son before He created the universe. All this time, dozens and dozens of posts and you have still have utterly ZEEROH comprehension of what I believe. Anybody who wants to know what I think should ask anybody other than my old pal Pat. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Now Cotes is right in the general argument Freewill vs. Determinism is a complicated one from a philosophical stand point. >>>[/quote] It’s an ultimately incomprehensible one from any standopint not grounded in faith in the one true and living God. [quote]pat wrote:<<< You cannot really ‘prove’ determinism and you cannot disprove freewill. >>>[/quote] I can and have. By the commonly accepted definitions of those two seemingly irreconcilable concepts. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Ironically, outside of Calvinism the greatest proponents for determinism are atheists. >>>[/quote] Actually that would be muslims. Who have a truly pagan fatalistic concept of determinism. With all due affection and respect to my buddy squating_bear. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Short answer is: no God does not force, determine or compel people to do evil.[/quote] Bless the Lord Pat you are absolutely correct. I have spelled this out to you in excruciating biblically philosophical terms more times than I can count. Even Cortes will not charge me with the belief that God coerces the will of man. I will find my quotes if I must. I have cited the confession of 1646 at least 25 times where the Westminster assembly denies that “violence” is done to the human will.

BTW. Email me would ya please. I want to talk to you about something that has nothing to do with any of this. Somebody please quote this so he can see it. He has me on ignore. It won’t take long to figure out why.
[/quote]

By request, that Pat read this^^^^

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< Big brouhahas aren’t really effective. Christians are won a person at a time. It’s when that person opens their heart to God, that’s when a Christian is made. [/quote]Despite the wooden Catholic phrasing this not too bad at all Pat. Ya scare me sometimes.

[quote]pat wrote:<<< There is a faction of Christianity under the banner of Calvinism that believes in predetermination (see tirib), >>>[/quote] See Tirib and the majority of the delegates to the first constitutional convention at the founding of this once great nation. Faction LOL!!! [quote]pat wrote:<<< most do not. >>[/quote]And look how much better off we are now!!! [quote]pat wrote:<<< The idea behind in a nut shell goes to “who are you to question God”, except God doesn’t say that. >>>[/quote] Romans 9:18-21 18-So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19-You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will”? 20-But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this” 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

Hmmm. It looks like God actually does say that Pat. [quote]pat wrote:<<< It’s not really scriptural >>>[/quote]But it like really is though. [quote]pat wrote:<<< It’s fatalistic and hopeless. >>>[/quote]There are a few people here who know what is going on in my life right now. Pat, my dear old friend. My unshakable faith in the all governing decree and providence of an uncontingent almighty God in whose hand and by whose will my every breath is drawn is the ONLY thing that opens my eyes every morning. If I had to believe like you that MY faithfulness is what will see me through? I’d blow my brains out right now. Fatalistic and hopeless he says. Your God is a pathetic simpering weakling, wringing his hands in the hope that somebody will believe in Him.

Mine knew my name and gave me to His Son before He created the universe. All this time, dozens and dozens of posts and you have still have utterly ZEEROH comprehension of what I believe. Anybody who wants to know what I think should ask anybody other than my old pal Pat. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Now Cotes is right in the general argument Freewill vs. Determinism is a complicated one from a philosophical stand point. >>>[/quote] It’s an ultimately incomprehensible one from any standopint not grounded in faith in the one true and living God. [quote]pat wrote:<<< You cannot really ‘prove’ determinism and you cannot disprove freewill. >>>[/quote] I can and have. By the commonly accepted definitions of those two seemingly irreconcilable concepts. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Ironically, outside of Calvinism the greatest proponents for determinism are atheists. >>>[/quote] Actually that would be muslims. Who have a truly pagan fatalistic concept of determinism. With all due affection and respect to my buddy squating_bear. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Short answer is: no God does not force, determine or compel people to do evil.[/quote] Bless the Lord Pat you are absolutely correct. I have spelled this out to you in excruciating biblically philosophical terms more times than I can count. Even Cortes will not charge me with the belief that God coerces the will of man. I will find my quotes if I must. I have cited the confession of 1646 at least 25 times where the Westminster assembly denies that “violence” is done to the human will.

BTW. Email me would ya please. I want to talk to you about something that has nothing to do with any of this. Somebody please quote this so he can see it. He has me on ignore. It won’t take long to figure out why.
[/quote]

By request, that Pat read this^^^[1]

I am curious, why? What should I get out of it?


  1. /quote ↩︎

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< Big brouhahas aren’t really effective. Christians are won a person at a time. It’s when that person opens their heart to God, that’s when a Christian is made. [/quote]Despite the wooden Catholic phrasing this not too bad at all Pat. Ya scare me sometimes.

[quote]pat wrote:<<< There is a faction of Christianity under the banner of Calvinism that believes in predetermination (see tirib), >>>[/quote] See Tirib and the majority of the delegates to the first constitutional convention at the founding of this once great nation. Faction LOL!!! [quote]pat wrote:<<< most do not. >>[/quote]And look how much better off we are now!!! [quote]pat wrote:<<< The idea behind in a nut shell goes to “who are you to question God”, except God doesn’t say that. >>>[/quote] Romans 9:18-21 18-So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19-You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will”? 20-But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this” 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

Hmmm. It looks like God actually does say that Pat. [quote]pat wrote:<<< It’s not really scriptural >>>[/quote]But it like really is though. [quote]pat wrote:<<< It’s fatalistic and hopeless. >>>[/quote]There are a few people here who know what is going on in my life right now. Pat, my dear old friend. My unshakable faith in the all governing decree and providence of an uncontingent almighty God in whose hand and by whose will my every breath is drawn is the ONLY thing that opens my eyes every morning. If I had to believe like you that MY faithfulness is what will see me through? I’d blow my brains out right now. Fatalistic and hopeless he says. Your God is a pathetic simpering weakling, wringing his hands in the hope that somebody will believe in Him.

Mine knew my name and gave me to His Son before He created the universe. All this time, dozens and dozens of posts and you have still have utterly ZEEROH comprehension of what I believe. Anybody who wants to know what I think should ask anybody other than my old pal Pat. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Now Cotes is right in the general argument Freewill vs. Determinism is a complicated one from a philosophical stand point. >>>[/quote] It’s an ultimately incomprehensible one from any standopint not grounded in faith in the one true and living God. [quote]pat wrote:<<< You cannot really ‘prove’ determinism and you cannot disprove freewill. >>>[/quote] I can and have. By the commonly accepted definitions of those two seemingly irreconcilable concepts. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Ironically, outside of Calvinism the greatest proponents for determinism are atheists. >>>[/quote] Actually that would be muslims. Who have a truly pagan fatalistic concept of determinism. With all due affection and respect to my buddy squating_bear. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Short answer is: no God does not force, determine or compel people to do evil.[/quote] Bless the Lord Pat you are absolutely correct. I have spelled this out to you in excruciating biblically philosophical terms more times than I can count. Even Cortes will not charge me with the belief that God coerces the will of man. I will find my quotes if I must. I have cited the confession of 1646 at least 25 times where the Westminster assembly denies that “violence” is done to the human will.

BTW. Email me would ya please. I want to talk to you about something that has nothing to do with any of this. Somebody please quote this so he can see it. He has me on ignore. It won’t take long to figure out why.
[/quote]

By request, that Pat read this^^^[1]

I am curious, why? What should I get out of it?[/quote]

No clue. Just offering to deliver a message as was requested. It’s the only time I intend to do this.


  1. /quote ↩︎

[quote]Cortes wrote:<<< No clue. Just offering to deliver a message as was requested. It’s the only time I intend to do this. [/quote]Thank you Cortes. Even if he doesn’t read the post. PLEASE Pat will you email me. You have my solemn word before the Lord that I am NOT picking a fight with you.

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< Big brouhahas aren’t really effective. Christians are won a person at a time. It’s when that person opens their heart to God, that’s when a Christian is made. [/quote]Despite the wooden Catholic phrasing this not too bad at all Pat. Ya scare me sometimes.

[quote]pat wrote:<<< There is a faction of Christianity under the banner of Calvinism that believes in predetermination (see tirib), >>>[/quote] See Tirib and the majority of the delegates to the first constitutional convention at the founding of this once great nation. Faction LOL!!! [quote]pat wrote:<<< most do not. >>[/quote]And look how much better off we are now!!! [quote]pat wrote:<<< The idea behind in a nut shell goes to “who are you to question God”, except God doesn’t say that. >>>[/quote] Romans 9:18-21 18-So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19-You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will”? 20-But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this” 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

Hmmm. It looks like God actually does say that Pat. [quote]pat wrote:<<< It’s not really scriptural >>>[/quote]But it like really is though. [quote]pat wrote:<<< It’s fatalistic and hopeless. >>>[/quote]There are a few people here who know what is going on in my life right now. Pat, my dear old friend. My unshakable faith in the all governing decree and providence of an uncontingent almighty God in whose hand and by whose will my every breath is drawn is the ONLY thing that opens my eyes every morning. If I had to believe like you that MY faithfulness is what will see me through? I’d blow my brains out right now. Fatalistic and hopeless he says. Your God is a pathetic simpering weakling, wringing his hands in the hope that somebody will believe in Him.

Mine knew my name and gave me to His Son before He created the universe. All this time, dozens and dozens of posts and you have still have utterly ZEEROH comprehension of what I believe. Anybody who wants to know what I think should ask anybody other than my old pal Pat. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Now Cotes is right in the general argument Freewill vs. Determinism is a complicated one from a philosophical stand point. >>>[/quote] It’s an ultimately incomprehensible one from any standopint not grounded in faith in the one true and living God. [quote]pat wrote:<<< You cannot really ‘prove’ determinism and you cannot disprove freewill. >>>[/quote] I can and have. By the commonly accepted definitions of those two seemingly irreconcilable concepts. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Ironically, outside of Calvinism the greatest proponents for determinism are atheists. >>>[/quote] Actually that would be muslims. Who have a truly pagan fatalistic concept of determinism. With all due affection and respect to my buddy squating_bear. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Short answer is: no God does not force, determine or compel people to do evil.[/quote] Bless the Lord Pat you are absolutely correct. I have spelled this out to you in excruciating biblically philosophical terms more times than I can count. Even Cortes will not charge me with the belief that God coerces the will of man. I will find my quotes if I must. I have cited the confession of 1646 at least 25 times where the Westminster assembly denies that “violence” is done to the human will.

BTW. Email me would ya please. I want to talk to you about something that has nothing to do with any of this. Somebody please quote this so he can see it. He has me on ignore. It won’t take long to figure out why.
[/quote]

By request, that Pat read this^^^[1]

I am curious, why? What should I get out of it?[/quote]

No clue. Just offering to deliver a message as was requested. It’s the only time I intend to do this.
[/quote]

Oh I see. Well nothing new here. No email contact will be established, there are few people I trust, and certainly don’t give my private email out will-nilly.
I gave tirib plenty of chances to act right and be right, he could not do it so he is on the outs, permanently. Sorry he used you as a messenger. I got the message a long time ago.

Don’t worry, you I trust.


  1. /quote ↩︎