I don’t see a problem. Most Christian establishments don’t agree with abortion. If I beleived in it I would find a church that did also. So if you don’t like it find a church that does.
My brother in law had a word for Catholics who don’t want to follow the Catholic churches rules : Lutherans. I don’t see what the big deal is for a priest to say this violates church teaching.
Listen, you know what your religion preaches, so either follow the rules or suffer the consequences. The church says no contraception, well, if you don’t follow the rule, you’re breaking the rule.
I’m a Lutheran, it’s not my rule. while we tend to be pro life, like myself, I don’t see many Lutherans really out there protesting abortion.
You don’t want to follow Catholic teachings, try Lutheranism, the Methodists and so on.
[quote]Himora22 wrote:
orion wrote:
Himora22 wrote:
jp_dubya wrote:
Shameful. Turn the other cheek, judge not less ye be judged, those without sin…
Not to mention separation of church and state
also not the issue…
How is that not the issue? Not your opinion? Sure, but separation of church and state is exactly the issue. I am strongly against abortion but if I were to go to church and heard my Priest talking politics and/or trying to influence the way I think(politically) by telling me Im going to Hell(God knows the Church would never do that) I would walk out.
Im not there to talk Politics, I’m there to worship God. But I can just as easily do that at home.
No wonder less and less ppl are going to church
[/quote]
Separation of church and state is a safeguard for the church, not the state,
also 2 Timothy 3:15-17
15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
We are to tell those around us when they do wrong especially other christians, if you believe something believe don’t just follow through the motions.
If you don’t, don’t pretend.
I heard he went on to damn America and accuse our government of manafacturing AIDS.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
My brother in law had a word for Catholics who don’t want to follow the Catholic churches rules : Lutherans. I don’t see what the big deal is for a priest to say this violates church teaching.
Listen, you know what your religion preaches, so either follow the rules or suffer the consequences. The church says no contraception, well, if you don’t follow the rule, you’re breaking the rule.
I’m a Lutheran, it’s not my rule. while we tend to be pro life, like myself, I don’t see many Lutherans really out there protesting abortion.
You don’t want to follow Catholic teachings, try Lutheranism, the Methodists and so on.[/quote]
I agree that you either follow it or change religions. The original topic was a priest saying Catholics shouldn’t take communion if they voted for Obama. As I said in an early post this priest is going against the Church Doctrine. He has no authority to make Church Doctrine. Catholics who voted for Obama are fine as long as they don’t support his position on abortion.
bpeck
I think more churches should be firm and stick to their principles, even if that means they alienate and lose adherents.
Too many salad-bar believers going around.
[quote]Molotov_Coktease wrote:
Well, any thread or talk about a Catholic priest nowadays will be viewed with disdain immediately. Even I am guilty of thinking … what hypocrisy is this? They are just so unfortunately, forever tarnished.
Like anybody hears of muslims they think of suicide bombings and religious mania, the person now thinks of Catholic priests as molestors of boys. There is truly nothing sacred anymore. Nothing beyond killing or disgust, no religion. How does one keep the faith?
Any faith at all. They are all filthy. No prophets to believe in, no clear road to travel that isn’t fraught with the bones of the murdered or cries of the children.
I am not an atheist. I am a person who refuses to follow the sickened ways of man, man who claims to follow god yet pollutes his path with the bodies of the innocent and cries out for money. Every church in these lands are infected. They are zombies of weakness and hate. I refuse to follow them.
That goes for religions in every land that stretches across this universe. I have forsaken you all. Yet, I am not godless. I have not closed eyes …I feel the wounds and I cry for the souls. I have more compassion and more god in my veins than your hateful religion allows.
I can hear the children without them speaking. I have no fear of my afterlife …for I know I can communicate just the same, with no words. I have learned how. Floating and bodyless I can lead. A third eye sight. Opened. Universe…broken.[/quote]
This is a very good post.
The sad part is that on this website when there is an uninformed article in the media about something as trivial as steroid use everyone is quick to jump the media. When there is an equally uninformed and politically motivated article such as the link posted above the dumbasses post it up not realising they are brainwashed tools.
There has never been a more despised and hated organisation in the history of the world by the liberals/femenists/gays than the Catholic church, liberals detest real Catholics.
The problem for those of us faithful to Catholic teaching is that the Church herself is now so morally weak and liberal that she is not functioning as she should.
[quote]JamFly wrote:
There has never been a more despised and hated organisation in the history of the world by the liberals/femenists/gays than the Catholic church, liberals detest real Catholics.
[/quote]
Would your head actually explode if you met liberals who were catholic? What about Feminists? or even “gays” for that matter?
[quote]JamFly wrote:
Molotov_Coktease wrote:
Well, any thread or talk about a Catholic priest nowadays will be viewed with disdain immediately. Even I am guilty of thinking … what hypocrisy is this? They are just so unfortunately, forever tarnished.
Like anybody hears of muslims they think of suicide bombings and religious mania, the person now thinks of Catholic priests as molestors of boys. There is truly nothing sacred anymore. Nothing beyond killing or disgust, no religion. How does one keep the faith?
Any faith at all. They are all filthy. No prophets to believe in, no clear road to travel that isn’t fraught with the bones of the murdered or cries of the children.
I am not an atheist. I am a person who refuses to follow the sickened ways of man, man who claims to follow god yet pollutes his path with the bodies of the innocent and cries out for money. Every church in these lands are infected. They are zombies of weakness and hate. I refuse to follow them.
That goes for religions in every land that stretches across this universe. I have forsaken you all. Yet, I am not godless. I have not closed eyes …I feel the wounds and I cry for the souls. I have more compassion and more god in my veins than your hateful religion allows.
I can hear the children without them speaking. I have no fear of my afterlife …for I know I can communicate just the same, with no words. I have learned how. Floating and bodyless I can lead. A third eye sight. Opened. Universe…broken.
This is a very good post.
The sad part is that on this website when there is an uninformed article in the media about something as trivial as steroid use everyone is quick to jump the media.
When there is an equally uninformed and politically motivated article such as the link posted above the dumbasses post it up not realising they are brainwashed tools.
There has never been a more despised and hated organisation in the history of the world by the liberals/femenists/gays than the Catholic church, liberals detest real Catholics.
The problem for those of us faithful to Catholic teaching is that the Church herself is now so morally weak and liberal that she is not functioning as she should.[/quote]
I am baptist but fully agree, the church is ridiculed because of the ones that are not really believers.
[quote]JamFly wrote:
There has never been a more despised and hated organisation in the history of the world by the liberals/femenists/gays than the Catholic church, liberals detest real Catholics.
The problem for those of us faithful to Catholic teaching is that the Church herself is now so morally weak and liberal that she is not functioning as she should.[/quote]
You make good points, then you bring up feminists and gays.
Nice.
At any rate, why do people depend on the church so badly? To me that reeks of a crutch for poor faith. It’s not so hard to believe in God and have no faith in organized religion. Some people call it being agnostic, I call it being smart.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
At any rate, why do people depend on the church so badly? To me that reeks of a crutch for poor faith. It’s not so hard to believe in God and have no faith in organized religion. Some people call it being agnostic, I call it being smart.[/quote]
Because we have a church going orientation. You’re not a church-a-phobe are you? You know, that usually means you’re at least curious about going to church yourself. Betcha didn’t know that.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Makavali wrote:
At any rate, why do people depend on the church so badly? To me that reeks of a crutch for poor faith. It’s not so hard to believe in God and have no faith in organized religion. Some people call it being agnostic, I call it being smart.
Because we have a church going orientation. You’re not a church-a-phobe are you? You know, that usually means you’re at least curious about going to church yourself. Betcha didn’t know that.[/quote]
Not just churches, I include temples, mosques and any other religious building in that. I’m just unsure as to why God would require you go into a specially ordained building once or more a week and worship him.
EDIT: And yes, I’ve been into a church. A mosque too.
[quote]orion wrote:
jp_dubya wrote:
Shameful. Turn the other cheek, judge not less ye be judged, those without sin…
not the issue…
[/quote]
so I read the article, the snippet given in the OP steered me in the wrong direction. I leaped before looking? The article went on to say
“and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ’s Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation.”
So, I don’t see a problem with the position at all. My bad.
Part of the penance should be to pray for Obama and those in power, that they make the right decisions in the eyes of God.
Certified “Church-a-Phobe” here. I grew up Catholic. Went to church eeeevery damn Sunday until I was 16. Nothing will give you ADD more than sitting through a full 60-90 minutes of Catholic mass. It’s poke-your-own-eyes-out boring.
I’d rather be waterboarded.
Now, thankfully, I only have to go once a year, when the family (parents, sister, bro-in-law) go to Midnight mass on X-mas Eve. The Catholics make Midnight Mass EXTRA drawn-out, with lots of caroling. It’s pure horror in every way.
A few times when I was growing up I also went to friends’ churches, which were various versions of born-again/evangelical/pentacostal types. I found them downright creepy. (No offense to anyone). WAY different than Catholic mass, that’s for sure.
But that’s just me.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Makavali wrote:
At any rate, why do people depend on the church so badly? To me that reeks of a crutch for poor faith. It’s not so hard to believe in God and have no faith in organized religion. Some people call it being agnostic, I call it being smart.
Because we have a church going orientation. You’re not a church-a-phobe are you? You know, that usually means you’re at least curious about going to church yourself. Betcha didn’t know that.[/quote]
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Makavali wrote:
At any rate, why do people depend on the church so badly? To me that reeks of a crutch for poor faith. It’s not so hard to believe in God and have no faith in organized religion. Some people call it being agnostic, I call it being smart.
Because we have a church going orientation. You’re not a church-a-phobe are you? You know, that usually means you’re at least curious about going to church yourself. Betcha didn’t know that.[/quote]
Ha! “Church-curious”
[quote]JamFly wrote:
Molotov_Coktease wrote:
Well, any thread or talk about a Catholic priest nowadays will be viewed with disdain immediately. Even I am guilty of thinking … what hypocrisy is this? They are just so unfortunately, forever tarnished.
Like anybody hears of muslims they think of suicide bombings and religious mania, the person now thinks of Catholic priests as molestors of boys. There is truly nothing sacred anymore. Nothing beyond killing or disgust, no religion. How does one keep the faith?
Any faith at all. They are all filthy. No prophets to believe in, no clear road to travel that isn’t fraught with the bones of the murdered or cries of the children.
I am not an atheist. I am a person who refuses to follow the sickened ways of man, man who claims to follow god yet pollutes his path with the bodies of the innocent and cries out for money. Every church in these lands are infected. They are zombies of weakness and hate. I refuse to follow them.
That goes for religions in every land that stretches across this universe. I have forsaken you all. Yet, I am not godless. I have not closed eyes …I feel the wounds and I cry for the souls. I have more compassion and more god in my veins than your hateful religion allows.
I can hear the children without them speaking. I have no fear of my afterlife …for I know I can communicate just the same, with no words. I have learned how. Floating and bodyless I can lead. A third eye sight. Opened. Universe…broken.
This is a very good post.
The sad part is that on this website when there is an uninformed article in the media about something as trivial as steroid use everyone is quick to jump the media. When there is an equally uninformed and politically motivated article such as the link posted above the dumbasses post it up not realising they are brainwashed tools.
There has never been a more despised and hated organisation in the history of the world by the liberals/femenists/gays than the Catholic church, liberals detest real Catholics.
The problem for those of us faithful to Catholic teaching is that the Church herself is now so morally weak and liberal that she is not functioning as she should.[/quote]
If you put your faith in man, you will always be disappointed. This priest, for instance, is making a poor decision. You cannot refuse sacraments of the church to anybody unless you know they’re hearts and relationship with the Almighty. Since that is not knowable unless the person chooses to reveal it themselves then he should not be refusing the sacrament. It helps no one to do so.
I personally think Obama is a bad person, or at least extremely misguided. Most who voted for him, though, really did so with the best of intentions, so this man should not refuse communion to the congregation.
[quote]pookie wrote:
I think more churches should be firm and stick to their principles, even if that means they alienate and lose adherents.
Too many salad-bar believers going around.
[/quote]
Very strange coming from an orthodox atheist. The church is firm, but this priest is making a bad decision. He is not sticking to the principals of the church. You do not shut the door in people’s faces based on how they voted. Refusing sacraments is a big deal and really only reserved for the worse of the worse unrepentant evil doers. The church is for anybody who wants to be there. He would be better spending his time educating his practitioners on what stances Obama has that are against the church. Why the church has those stances and how they can encourage an Obama administration to refrain from doing harm and strive to do good. Cock blocking and grand standing is not going to do a fucking thing to unelect Obama. Everybody would be better served by open and frequent dialog with his administration rather then stonewalling his supporters and using Communion as a weapon for political agenda. It’s just simply unproductive.
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
JamFly wrote:
Molotov_Coktease wrote:
Well, any thread or talk about a Catholic priest nowadays will be viewed with disdain immediately. Even I am guilty of thinking … what hypocrisy is this? They are just so unfortunately, forever tarnished.
Like anybody hears of muslims they think of suicide bombings and religious mania, the person now thinks of Catholic priests as molestors of boys. There is truly nothing sacred anymore. Nothing beyond killing or disgust, no religion. How does one keep the faith?
Any faith at all. They are all filthy. No prophets to believe in, no clear road to travel that isn’t fraught with the bones of the murdered or cries of the children.
I am not an atheist. I am a person who refuses to follow the sickened ways of man, man who claims to follow god yet pollutes his path with the bodies of the innocent and cries out for money. Every church in these lands are infected. They are zombies of weakness and hate. I refuse to follow them.
That goes for religions in every land that stretches across this universe. I have forsaken you all. Yet, I am not godless. I have not closed eyes …I feel the wounds and I cry for the souls. I have more compassion and more god in my veins than your hateful religion allows.
I can hear the children without them speaking. I have no fear of my afterlife …for I know I can communicate just the same, with no words. I have learned how. Floating and bodyless I can lead. A third eye sight. Opened. Universe…broken.
This is a very good post.
The sad part is that on this website when there is an uninformed article in the media about something as trivial as steroid use everyone is quick to jump the media.
When there is an equally uninformed and politically motivated article such as the link posted above the dumbasses post it up not realising they are brainwashed tools.
There has never been a more despised and hated organisation in the history of the world by the liberals/femenists/gays than the Catholic church, liberals detest real Catholics.
The problem for those of us faithful to Catholic teaching is that the Church herself is now so morally weak and liberal that she is not functioning as she should.
I am baptist but fully agree, the church is ridiculed because of the ones that are not really believers.[/quote]
The church is ridiculed because the media hates Catholics. The bias is so ridiculously obvious. That’s not to say that people with in the church have not behaved terribly and there is not an excuse for it. But it’s not to hard to find the bias. That’s alright, because I think the media is largely composed of assholes who often pass personal opinions off as fact.
As an agnostic I’ve witnessed some incredibly interesting, moving church sermons.
You just need to go church-shopping. Most denominations have slightly different beliefs but most sermons end up being about god, sacrifice, morality, and being a good person which are universal.
How many that have posted to this thread are actually practicing Catholics?