T Nation

Catholic Common Sense



Here's the headline:

"Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible"

Holy crap! Can it be that some of y'all religious folks are starting to come around? I don't know. The last time we got our hopes up, y'all had an inquisition, so I'm still waiting for the jury to come out on this one.

Still... how encouraging. My faith in humanity just went up a little bit. I read the article in what could only be described as hopeful disbelief. Is the Pope gonna come out and say "Yeah, the snake and the garden was just poetry... get over yourselves." If that happens, I just might convert. :slight_smile:


And one more thing about this...

My opinion is that this is a shrewd move by the Catholics. Saying "science is real" can't help but add an enormous amount of credibility to them. They're still a little weird about the virgin Mary and the Resurrection, but those are central tenets of Catholicism, so that's not gonna change. I mean, if you don't believe Jesus rose, then you aren't a christian, and the idea of Mary's perfection is at the heart of Catholic belief.

I remember when the Pope said that believing evolution is compatible with being a Catholic, but this new development is quite a bit more of a big deal.


Thats what catholics have long beleived that you can interpret the bible rather than having to beleive in a literal translation. The catholics are just formalizing this apparantly. Good for them they need to reclaim their good image after all of the kiddie abuse scandals.


I'm a Catholic from Poland and can tell you that Catholicism has never had a problem with science or any of it's derivatives or theories. It's firm belief that since we are made in the image of God we have also been given all the attributes for us to pursue. Isn't it obvious that since we have been given inquisitive minds, the ability to develop math, a sense of humor etc.. That those are gifts from God for us to use, pursue and develop to it's ultimate end.

I have no idea, or perhaps some idea why in America the thinking behind religion is soooo simplistic and fundamental in simplicity that it carries a certain shame for me to admit being Catholic.


LOL Tell that to Galileo!!!

You see now, that's just good common sense.

I can help you here. The reason bible literalists are so loath to let go of their beliefs can be summed up like this:

The bible is the exact word of God.

Once you start chipping away at this one thing, then fundamentalists get upset. For if it can be shown that the bible was wrong or exaggerated in some places, then what's to stop the stories of the resurrection or of the miracles from being wrong or exaggerations as well?

All of a sudden, the belief system fails. And when you are programmed to not question the belief in Jesus OR YOU GO TO HELL, then emotions get involved too. You see, in order to maintain the fantasy, they HAVE TO remain unsophisticated and simple.

I find the Catholic church's courage in accepting the truth (somewhat) is encouraging, and bridges the gap, so to speak, between those who possess faith, and those who are empty of it. Maybe this is genuine, maybe it is a survival tactic... maybe they felt their relevance slipping away in this modern age of communication and technology. I don't know. Maybe it doesn't matter. Anything that brings us all closer together as a people has my vote.


Yea, Galileo poor guy. Same with Coppernicus and many others. Eveyone knows (i thought) that the bible has plenty of word by men in it. Our last Pope has set a precedent for what it means to be a Good Catholic and to Follow Christ. It's just a simple message of Acceptance and Forgiveness. Once those two things are mastered you're a true Catholic.

People that do not accept our scientific discoveries and dispute obvious things are the ones without faith IMO. It's like they believe God creatred man but the moment we discover through our God given intellect how he may have gone about it, it's immediately blasphemy, lol! God put us here with clues all around for us to go around and discover, like kids learning by diassembling their parents car :slightly_smiling: I feel that this pursuit will bring us closer to God not further. Religion was given to us to further and better us, not hold us back, stagnate us and let live in ignorance.


Another Christian bashing thread? You and pookie should use this sort of zealous behavior toward something productive. You guys whine about Christians being overbearing but you guys have us topped! I expect soon you will be handing out leaflets on the corner. Or maybe you'll be dressing up and knocking on peoples doors...Well at least you are good for a laugh!


As a Catholic, none of this is really news to me (as Gregus pointed out so ably). Even on the evolution front, the Catholic Church (via Pope John Paul II) took a position that was really a blend of creationism and evolution, i.e. that God created the universe and we did evolve.

What I find funny is that people tend to bash the Church so long and often that they have never stopped to... oh I dunno... actually learn what the beliefs of Catholics actually are. So you have skeptics who ask for all this proof and information, yet never bothered to check into the actual beliefs of the people they bash? Huh. Ironic.


Shouldn't you be trying to deprive gay people of the right to get married or something? This is productive!


The Church at first had no problems with Galileo or Copernican theory. In fact they were financial supporters and felt it did not conflict at all.

Then Galileo's rival scientists couldn't disprove his theories and they pushed the Catholic Church into attacking him.

The persecution of Galileo was political and not theological although the Cardinals of the Inquisition masked it as theology (as was the usual tactic).

The lesson to take away from this is not that the Catholic Church is anti science, rather that the Inquisition was a horrible part of the Church.


Actually, the law prevents them from marrying. This law is backed by about 75% of the populace who think that they should not marry.

Any more thoughts?


Wow, 75%, that's an interesting number. My thoughts are that I can't wait to laugh in your face when gay marriage becomes legally recognized in the majority of the US.



I struggle to see how this thread is productive...


Catholics never believed that the bible is the exact word of God. They always taught it was written by men.

The gospels tell the story of the life of Jesus, as told by the apostles, who quote Jesus often. The men of course were believed to be inspired by God in some cases.

Do you have the bible confused with the Qur'an perhaps. The Qur'an, as believed by Muslims, is claimed to be the exact word of God as dicated to Mohammed.


I thought the article was pretty interesting. I guess since you're Christian you knew that already...


Well then that is a fair point, actually. Sorry if I came off pissy in my e-mail, but I get a little touchy given the amount of bashing the Catholic Church has taken of late (and don't get me wrong... the priest abuse scandal is not what I mean since that was just abhorrent). I guess something that allows people to have a better understanding of what the Church stands for is a good thing. I stand corrected.



This isn't completely accurate. The church wanted Galileo to say that his theory was instrumental in nature, not True (with a capital T); that is, they wanted him to just say that the theory was useful in getting certain usable results, but that the universe didn't actually work that way. Galileo refused, and his troubles began in earnest.


Noone is bashing anyone here. Did you read the essence of what we're talking about or just react and saw what you wanted to see.


First of all I was asking a question: "Another Christian bashing thread?" Perhaps you should reread my first sentence. Did you only see what you wanted to see?

Secondly, lothario is a noted Christian basher and bringing up the possiblity that he could be starting a Christian bashing thread is well with in the realm of a reasonable question (and assumption).

Thirdly, when someone, anyone, makes the following statement (or quotes a source) then it might just be they are attempting to belittle Catholicism.

"Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible." And followed it up with, "Holy crap! Can it be that some of y'all religious folks are strarting to come around."

Then sums it up by stating that his faith is "coming around" because of this.

Yea, I think the poster might have been off to a good Christian bashing start. At least enough to ask the question!


Yes, I'm sure you would love to laugh in my face. I mean isn't that the goal of every good American? I mean, being able to laugh in someones face is...well...hey you made it if you can do that :slight_smile:

I guess time will tell which way the Gay marriage issue will go. Right now it's not going your way as evidenced by how badly Gay marriage was voted down in referendums across the country. It was not just beaten, but beaten badly!

Finally, this thread is not about Gay marriage. You brought this up (out of the blue) as a way to send a jab my way since you know my stand on the issue. It didn't work! If you want to discuss Gay marriage start a thread about it and see who joins.

My very best to you. And may you have many happy hours of laughing in peoples faces, if that's what you want in life.