I think my point was not articulated fully. I should have added that I think both men and women are most comfortable with partners who have had approximately the same amount of experience as they have had – especially in the context of a long-term partner. People tend to define the threshold of morality for this type of thing based on their own experience, with their own level being perfectly acceptable, and a little more or a little less being good. This is not necessarily true in any particular case, but I think it’s a good general understanding of how people tend to think. I do think you have a point that a woman with a whole lot of experience is viewed more negatively than a guy with a whole lot of experience, but the converse is also true – a guy with very limited experience is viewed more negatively than a woman with very limited experience. Women want and expect a guy to know what he is doing, especially if he is not very young. Fair? Probably not. But the world seldom is.
Clue: NEVER complain that chix0rs like to ‘put out’
WTF are you thinking!
Michelle: I think that science has in some way explained the double standard, not that it necessarily condones it. For example, a woman has a very limited reproductive life, and since she has a limited amount of eggs during that time it is advantageous to guard those eggs as well as possible by being picky about who she mates with. Also a woman who didn’t keep her mate around was in danger of leaving her children without a provider of food or protection. In that sense a woman who gives up her “eggs” to too many men was considered to be foolish. Men on the otherhand have a virtually unlimited supply of sperm and therefore are ecouraged to get it into as many people as possible to ensure his genetic lineage. Of course this does not take into account mental/emotional aspects but I think that double standard waaaaaay back in time, was considered a necessity. Of course this kind of thinking developed before we even had the words to explain it. This also explains the double standard that an older male is attractive but older females are not. Once a female cannot reproduce her sexual attractiveness is reduced, while a male can reproduce for a much longer amount of time and therefore is considered to still be attractive to the opposite sex. Before birth control things were socialy much different and people like to think that we humans are much more intelligent than that but you’d be surprised at how strong the urge to mate is and how it affects our thoughts. It is after all very hard to undo what nature has put in place. I’m not advocating this sort of thing but it very clearly explaines why things are that way. There is an arguement for why this double standard is changing but I’ll leave that for another post.
I was starting to think it was impossible to find a girl my age (I’m 20) who was a virgin and good-looking, until it happened almost a year ago. I’ve now been with her for almost 10 months, and she is the best thing that has ever happened to me. It may be very difficult to find a girl like that, but it’s not impossible.
Jonnyjon - I understand your points, but the double standard has existed since LONG before the scientific knowledge of reproduction. Is it instinct driven? Perhaps partially, but I think instinct plays less of a part than you are saying. This double standard goes back as far as history goes, women who were not virgins were un-marriable, in the not so distant past a woman who enjoyed sex - i.e. had an orgasm - could be forced by her husband to be circumsized because it was bad/unhealthy for women to like sex.
I don’t agree that a man with very limited sexual practise is viewed more negatively, unless by a woman who has had a great deal of experience–unless of course she wants to be the teacher! I think you are right when you say that the same amount of experience is probably desirable. An inexperienced young woman might feel very self-conscious and foolish with a man who she feels expects a better performance simply because of his own experience. If the two people are left to explore their sexuality together from the same starting point, they usually end up enjoying it better because they don’t have anything else to compare it too and because it becomes something even more special between them.
And for those of you guys who want virgins–you must stop trying to de-virginize everyone! It takes two to tango
Michelle: Yes it is instinct driven!!! The urge to reproduce is stronger than any other human instinct! If instinct doesn’t play a vital role as you say then why is the double standard still around??? Unfortunatley its still a very important part of our society because our brains still have and need some of those defense mechanisms. So it is more necessary than you think, but things will change how it will go about. For example it no longer benefits a male to reproduce with as many women as possible because as a mammals brain grows it takes longer for its offspring to develope. It used to be that around the age of four, a male could take off because by that age his kids, in some sense, could fend for themselves(that is possibly why divorce is highest around the four year mark). But now children do not fully develop for quite a long time and the more investment a male has in their life the better of his genes will be. So now it becomes a problem when men cheat or have too many partners. So the balance is changing but I doubt as long as we are naturally reproducing that it will ever be socially excepted as ok to have tons of partners. Many beleive this whole idea is why women cheat and have multiple partners; to keep one male around for reproduction and another just to provide for her children. Again birth control is the concept that throws all this out of whack, I don’t think our reproductive emotions have yet to adapt to the idea of birth control. Humans obviously have a higher mind which can think reason beyond this type of thinking but it still sits in the back of our heads. I don’t condone any kind of double standard but its always good to understand where they come from. I think the idea about women not enjoying sex is more based in misrepresented religeon and folklore. People used to think that a man was the only contributor to reproduction and the woman just held his sperm for 9 months. After all the males contribution was the only outwardly visible one. I don’t think the female egg was discovered until the 1800’s. So alot of the alegorical concepts of a “man sowing his seed in a womans field” that came out of religeon was missread. People therefore did not see a reproductive advantage to women having an orgasm( which actualy causes her cervix to dip into a mans pool of sperm and therefore increase the chance of pregnancy). It also made sure that a woman would not cheat, because there would be no way for her to enjoy cheating if she had no clitoris.
To respond to the comment about how men/women who sleep around are perceived different, you need to think about relative difficulties. For instance it takes a great deal of “skill” for a man to bed a different woman every night. While any half way decent looking girl who spreads her legs can get laid anytime she wants. So I believe that to some extent perceptions of “players” are based on this idea. A male “player” is capable of doing something most men dream of but can’t acheive, while a female “slut” is merely doing something most woman can accomplish but don’t want to do.
Student - very interesting way to look at it…
Student, right on the money! You are brilliant. I have never heard that in those words, but you are absolutely right! Give this man a T-jacket.
Michelle, I am not sure what you are talking about. I merely stated a fact that society has changed; I made no judgement one way or another on it. The fact is women are more sexually free in today’s society because of a change in our collective value system. I agree there is a double standard, but I did not say that its existance was legit (hell, I didn’t even bring it up).
Humans are animals. yes even the women. So they do what men do they are just not dumb enough to tell everyone.
Scott - I guess I misread the tone of your post, it sounded to me like you were saying that it was too bad those things have gone out of style and that is what I responded to. I apologize.
your right bud,
I read a study recently that showed women are more sexually active now then ever…I will try to dig it up…It was done by the american journal of medicine maybe? cant remember…but its not your imagination, it is true…Why? I would speculate that since women are now more involved in the workplace/carrier then ever before, so they are getting married later then ever…which in turn leads to more partners…To be honest Im not really sure how i feel about it, I try not to think about it personally
Hey I am abnormal in 2 ways. First, I love sex. I would have sex three times a day if I could. (Any takers?) I am always thinking about it: ALWAYS. The problem is I don’t have sex as much as I fantasize about it (well for many varied reasons). I am NOT going to hump the first thing that comes my direction. I don’t believe in having sex, I believe in making love and that is what it should be to me. It means giving my body and soul and heart to someone and damn well making sure that they enjoy every frickin minute of it. If that is a rare answer maybe I’m really out of the loop.
I don’t get this - ‘women are more sexually active now then ever…’ what does that mean? If they were not that sexually active before, who did men have sex with… :-))) Or did men have less sex too? And does this mean that married women are sexually less active? You got me cracking up… I think I’m misinterpreting something here. :-)))
and you’re single, bionic? Three times a day… damn. The mind boggles at the thought.
3 times a day under ideal circumstances or until i at least fell over and couldn’t walk. but that’s again a dream, right now i’m in a dry spell.
Bionic, you confound me. You make mention of your availability, yet you’re fit, you love sex, and you seem as well adjusted as can reasonably be told through an internet forum. Perhaps you live in the wrong area. Just a thought.
And btw, some guys dig the school teacher thing.
You are the only person I have ever known to complain about this type of behavior.