T Nation

Casein Hydrolysate and Dieting


#1

I've become very interested in casein hysrolysate as of late. If you're unfamiliar with it, there have been talks about it by CT being that it is the main ingredient in Anaconda. Casein Hydrolysate is a very fast digesting protein source - very high quality CH is probably the fastest digesting protein source, even faster than individual amino acids. Due to this quality it's insulinogenic, meaning that it boosts insulin.

My question is this: If performing circuit training immediately followed by steady state cardio

, should CH be used directly after the circuit/lactate training or after the cardio?

Since CH boosts insulin which will essentially stop the fat burning process as insulin is a storage hormone, is Ch not a good option for weight loss? I understand that even if dieting there are times that boosting insulin can still be effective, but I wonder if I'm going to perform the cardio after my weight training if I should wait until after the cardio to ingest the CH.

I want to take it as soon as possible post lifting, but if taken immediately after the lifting won't it hinder the mobilization of fatty acids in my blood stream, making the steady state cardio less effective or useless?

From a scientific standpoint it makes sense to wait until after the cardio to take the CH, but I have that urge to want to take my post workout shake directly after training, as I'm sure many of you do as well.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

BT


#2

for reasons your stated yourself, and from personal experience, i vote for ingesting the CH after the cardio


#3

Hmmmm…does the data even exist to answer this question accurately? Seriously, I don’t know.

Just a guess, that if you wanted to have the best of both worlds (recovery/protein synthesis from the CH and utilization of fatty acids from steady state) you could have the CH maybe pre-lactate workout, or midway through your lactate workout.

I would think the insulin rise from the CH would be less substantial and perhaps shorter duration than that which occurs as a result of CHO ingestion, especially in the context of exercise.

Maybe that protocol would result in elevated protein synthesis and low insulin levels while doing the steady state?

Of course this is all the context of optimal fat utilization. I bet that if you’re operating within your kcal guidelines, fat loss would be just fine whether you had the CH pre or post-cardio.

Also another question: since glucose levels are low, glycerol levels in fat cells should be low, too, I would imagine. If I’m not mistaken glycerol is needed to combine with the free fatty acids to form and be stored as triglyceride. I’d imagine in a kcal deficit, during training, with low glucose levels, many FAs entering the adipose cells might just exit right back out again if they cannot form triglycerides.

I dunno, just throwing some stuff out there.


#4

Hey dude,

From what I have been learning about this, I would ingest the Hydrolysed casein during the lactate workout, finishing up by the end before the cardio. During the cardio, have nothing and post workout you could have some HC again as your postworkout. Because you are ingesting some HC during, your post workout shake may not have to be as large, due to still have some aminos in your system.

Trial and Error, given this is so recent.

Thibs has been changing his PARAWORKOUT strategies daily, but the above will do the trick well enough IMO.

Goodluck,
GJ


#5

Thanks guys… yeah I doubt the exact data exist to answer this but I am glad to hear your guy’s hypothesis as well as anecdotal evidence agree with my ideas. Thanks again. I appreciate any additional input.

BT


#6

Hasn’t Casein Hydrolysate been talked about at IM by Justin Harris and a couple other guys a while back? I vaguely remember reading something by him that you only need 10g to illicit an insulin boost, and also need at least 30g of Waxy Maize. Something along those lines. If I have time in the next day or two I’ll dig it up.


#7

I thought during excercise you can still burn fat despite raising insulin. During excercise anyway. I doubt its really going to prevent you from burning fat regardless of when you consume it. So i would go with whenever you want too…


#8

Insulin does not stop all fat loss in its tracks. It operates on a cell by cell basis. We have billions of cells. CHO’s raise insulin also and fat loss happens just fine with diets containing carbohydrates. I wouldn’t fuss about the insulin response of Casein Hydroslate.