T Nation

Case of The Myth


#1

I apologize for the narcissistic user name but it seemed funny at the time.

I'vr been reading a few of the forums since I was diagnosed with Low T three months ago and wanted to get some feedback/advice and to contribute. Below is my case information.

51 years old
6'1" tall
195 pounds
34" waist

I grew hair pretty well, have a mildly receding hairline that is age appropriate. A few years ago, my hair growth slowed, but I didn't notice it at the time.

I carry fat near my belly, in my ass and hips.

My overall health is very good. I have no concerns with the exception of my low T symptoms, depression, inability to lose weight, lethargic, loss of libido. I've had a few pre-diabetic fasting sugar tests but am usually between 95-105.

My PSA went from .47 to 1.27 in sex weeks after starting TRT - still low but the velocity is of concern. I am going to be tested again in three days.

I am on no meds, except for TRT, but I am currently taking protein, creatine, grape seed extract, Fish oil, and a multivitamin.

Pre TRT my TT was 170, Free was 5 and am not sure what my Estradiol was.
Six weeks in, on 110 mg of Test Cyp weekly, TT was 515, free was 14, Estradiol was 17.

My diet is relatively clean for a normal person, chicken, brown rice, whole wheat pastas and breads in small quantities. I drink beer, eat fatty red meat on occasion, and have a sweet tooth, but nothing crazy. I am probably calorically deficit, around 2000 daily, but had trouble losing weight in the past.

I lift about twice a week, nothing crazy - whole body for about an hour. I do some occasional HIIT, practice karate sporadically, and take long walks (6 miles) about three times per week.

My balls feel fine, but have shrunk a bit.

Since starting TRT I have experienced improved morning wood, had a slight bit of a bump in libido, and an improved mood.

Last week, with test results, my provider agreed to bump my weekly dose to 130 mg of Test Cyp - I've had no side effects, with the exception of the slight shrinkage mentioned above.

I've also gained about six pounds of muscle, mostly between weeks four and six. I use a Tanita scale and realize this isn't that accurate. On the Tanita I'm at 20 percent. With calipers I am at 18 percent for a single sight measurement (belly), and 15 percent with the three sight measurement (belly, pec, quad).

My main concern is whether or not I should be on Hcg and an AI. I'm not worried about the shrinkage, but understand the organ failure aspect of it. However, I'm thinking the dose is low enough that I don't need to worry about it yet, if at all. Also, with respect to the AI, I have no issues currently - no backne, no moobs, etcetera. When should I be concerned.

I'm also interested on anyone's ideas regarding the PSA.

One other issue I have is that my clinic does not allow self injection. I'm in New York and am not sure if self injection is allowed. Before getting on the phone to pharmacies, I was wondering if any one lives in New York and self injects. I have had some crash experiences before my next shot and would like the option of going to twice a week injections without the hassle of traveling to the clinic.

Appreciate any advice/help I can get. Am more than willing to share any experiences.

Thanks!


#2

I’m sorry, what myth are you referring to?

Your PSA is fine and even though it jumped, the fluctuation could just be normal ebb and flow. Monitor it and get retested in 3-6 mo. <4 is considered normal but can be higher and still fine. A great deal of research has gone into PSA after about a decade of over reactions to elevated numbers resulting in a potentially high number of unnecessary prostatectomies.


#3

Hey:

Thanks for the encouraging words. My clinic is retesting the PSA in two days, just concerned about the rapidity of the change, but otherwise not concerned because it is way below high.

Perhaps Sissyphus? I seem to be pushing the rock up the hill but never getting there.

TM


#4

Regarding HCG and the AI. Properly run TRT shouldn’t push you so high you need a AI. A good doc will run labs and watch estrogen levels. I personally see little value to HCG unless it provides the bulk of your treatment and you can produce test naturally. If you are deficent and you start Trt it should be viewed as for life or why do it. At 51 are you wanting more kids? If your only concern is shrinkage that seems silly to me.


#5

You may require an AI at any dose of testosterone. I was on 50mg/week, half what most guys start on and my E2 rose to 49 (20-39). Lab tests should be run in 4-6 weeks after your start date to check and then monitor every 2-3mo. It’s worth discussing it with the Dr. so that it is forefront in his mind and so you’ll know if he’s on the same page. Don’t ask for a script right away, just mention you want a requisite for E2 in your next lab and if he/she will consider anastrozole or another AI should the level run too high.

hCG is about more than testicular size. It will NOT protect your fertility while using exogenous T but it will provide you with a natural T source along with other vital hormones like DHEA, pregnenolone, and progesterone. Having atrophied testicles could also produce structural uritogenital problems associated with scrotum tightness and reduced blood flow. It can also make sex suck if the balls are getting crushed against your pubic bone. So, regardless of age you’ll want to inquire about hCG as well on your next visit.


#6

I wouldn’t give up HCG. It’s cheap and easy. Most of our personal care is for aesthetics, so I don’t see why wanting a health set of balls is silly. What if it kept them from turning floresent green with purple hair? Would it still be silly? Not if you didn’t like having green balls with purple pubes.

For me there was also a comfort issue. I could not stand them being tiny and drawn up. it happened almost immediately for me. I was constantly pulling at my sack because it was uncomfortably tight and my balls ached.

I don’t even bother trying to get it from my current endo. I tell him I take it, but he doesn’t know anything about it and doesn’t prescribe it. I get it from international pharmacies. much cheaper.


#7

Does anyone in New York self inject? It seems I would benefit from this but it also seems that New York doesn’t allow it.


#8

[quote]The Myth wrote:
Does anyone in New York self inject? It seems I would benefit from this but it also seems that New York doesn’t allow it.
[/quote]

I find that hard to believe. Diabetics obviously can. If that’s true about Testosterone then it’s a really ignorant policy worth changing.


#9

You might inquire here www.andropausespecialist.com/testosterone-treatment.php

It’s an andropause specialist in NY. “These may be self administered on a weekly basis”


#10

Please read the stickies, there are seven of them. Start with advice for new guys then finding a TRT doc.

You are overweight and you do not have a complete picture without thyroid labs. If your body temperatures are low, your thyroid function is low.


#11

It would seem that self injection is allowed. I’ll have to see what I can find on Long Island.

KSMan - my thyroid function was tested prior to commencement of TRT, my BF is considered lean. I think your statement that I’m overweight, while clinically true, may be a bit of you trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. I appreciate your feedback, but it seemed generic…I believe I’ve seen you harp about thyroid issues in the past. Again, round peg, square hole.

Thanks.


#12

you should post the thyroid testing. Most docs don’t know what their looking at with thyroid.


#13

“T symptoms, depression, inability to lose weight, lethargic, loss of libido” is consistent with low thyroid function. You can rule out these issues by checking your body temperature. If you would take the time to read the info in the stickies, you would not be dismissing this out of hand.

“my thyroid function was tested” is rather meaningless


#14

I love it when people after receiving the advice they asked for, tell you to fuck yourself.


#15

So I am going to reply again without coming off as if I am telling people to “fuck yourself”, as lgs so eloquently put it.

First of all, I read the stickies, so you can all stop telling me to read the stickies. I read the stickies, okay? If I had not read the stickies, I would not have presented the case in the fashion that I did.

Second, the stickies are, for the most part, poorly written, verbose, and overarching. It’s hard to have any trust in someone that uses loosing instead of losing. If you expect a newbie to read the stickies and digest them before posting, you need TRT because you are in a brain fog yourself. Unless you have hypothyroidism, in which case you need selenium and iodized salt to fix your sub-clinical hypothyroidism. If you are unsure which you suffer from, you should check your temperature, first thing in the morning, before working out or drinking anything. If your temp is low, you may suffer from hypothyroidism, in which case you may need to add iodized salt to your diet because hypothyroidism mimics low T symptoms. One way you can check is by taking you temperature in the morning, but, if you didn’t know this, YOU SHOULD READ THE STICKIES.

Third, if you had read the stickies, you should know that you should not include your own case and hijack the thread. For example, just because you had hypothyroidism, you should not hijack the thread. If you had READ THE STICKIES, you would know this.

For what it is worth, I copied and pasted the stickies into a Word document. It’s almost 9,000 words and 22 pages. If you expect someone struggling with low T to read all of that before posting, someone who is in a fog and depressed, then you might have hypothyroidism, in which case you should take your temperature first thing in the morning, before drinking anything, before working out, because, as I have read, low temp is an indication of hypothyroidism, which might be a result of a starvation diet or a lack of iodized salt in your diet. These symptoms are very similar to low T and you should rule out hypothyroidism.

However, in my case, I have a relationship with a GP, a relationship I have enjoyed for ten years. Since I am 51 years old, he has run a full CBC on me for the last ten years, has given me yearly physicals, including ECG’s and digital prostate exams. Every year, he tests for thyroid function since my wife, my brother in law, and my mother in law, suffer from hypothyroidism. While I have never seen a copy of these tests, he always discusses the results with me. This discussion includes thyroid function, which is always normal.

But, now that I understand that hypothyroidism includes low temperature, I will take my temperature. I will also have my TRT doc test it. And, if I am ever cold in the morning, which is never, or pale, which is never, I will rush right down to the Endo, the doctors that are held in such high esteem, and have him test it for me. And, when I explain to him that I read it in a stickie, we’ll have a beer and he will thank me for it. And then, I will have you to thank for my Endo’s high esteem, and for that, I thank you.

So, I have to go take my temp now, I think I might be ovulating. Can we all agree that READING THE STICKIES is important, but that you need to chill out a little? That some peeps just want a take on their development after eight weeks of successful TRT? Frankly, I’m digging it, gained nine pounds of muscle and didn’t need anyone telling me that I am overweight and am off track. I realize I opened the door by posting, but really, hypothyroidism and accusing me of saying “fuck yourself?” That’s just ridiculous, and you might be suffering from hypothyroidism, in which case, you should take your temperature first thing in the morning and if it’s low…

So, I fully expect to get kicked off, but, you get my point.

The Myth


#16

Why are you here? Sounds like you have complete faith in your Doc and should be good to go.

Get your test results. Verify that thyroid looks good. If you don’t know what you’re looking at and can’t be bothered to research, post the results here. Pretty simple.

Most docs take a few tests that don’t tell half the story, or say everything looks fine if levels are in the given ranges.


#17

Again with the thyroid. What were your temps this morning? Were you low, because, if your temps are low, you may be suffering from brain fog, low libido, depression. Most importantly, lack of cognitive function. This sounds like hypothyroidism and you might want to add iodized salt to your diet to support your thyroid problem.

Did you read the stickies? Please read the stickies before posting. There is a stickie about thyroid function, you should read it.

You wrote, "Why are you here? Sounds like you have complete faith in your Doc and should be good to go.

Get your test results. Verify that thyroid looks good. If you don’t know what you’re looking at and can’t be bothered to research, post the results here. Pretty simple.

Most docs take a few tests that don’t tell half the story, or say everything looks fine if levels are in the given ranges."

If I am not mistaken, many of the posts are about how doctors are idiots. Are you suggesting I put my faith in idiots? I think that answers your question, “Why are you here?”

My original post stated I “wanted to get some feedback/advice and to contribute.” I also stated I want “any advice/help I can get. Am more than willing to share any experiences.”

So far, I have been told I am overweight and that I should READ THE STICKIES and that I have hypothyroidism and should be tested for it and should take my temp in the morning and again in the afternoon and that it will affect my cognitive function and that I should have it tested before starting TRT.

And, I believe I have said, several times, that I have been tested, that I am already on TRT, that I am thriving on TRT, that I will have thyroid tested again in the future, that I am not cold in the morning, that I am not pale and puffy, that I show no other signs of hypothyroidism, that I would appreciate it if you stopped fucking talking about hypothyroidism, that you have hijacked my thread, in violation of THE STICKIES (DID YOU READ THE STICKIES?)

In conclusion, READ THE FUCKING STICKIES.

You feel me Bro?


#18

Is this all from being called overweight? Don’t take that to heart. That and your petty tone reminds me of feminine mental traits.

Check your estrogen. An AI might be in order.


#19

Boy, you’re a bright one. Suggest you post labs and very simple data so we can offer the feedback you requested at the top of this thread. Seems like a simple suggestion, but ends up in tantrum. There’s not much arguing or assholery here. You seem to be looking for that, so might want to try and different forum.


#20

[quote]Igs wrote:
Is this all from being called overweight? Don’t take that to heart. That and your petty tone reminds me of feminine mental traits.

Check your estrogen. An AI might be in order. [/quote]

Damn. I had it all ready to go, then noticed you beat me to it. Lets put this guy and i8bob in a jar, shake’em up and see who wins.