T Nation

Case for Vegetarianism

Actually alot of people who are not christian/muslim would disagree with this poster simply on his/her views on karma. It’s shockingly limited. While they are at it they can look up dharma, the two go hand in hand.

[quote]ToShinDo wrote:
Buddha Gautama (supposedly) ate meat so long as the animal was not killed specifically for him. If it’s good enough for him, it’s good enough for me.[/quote]

Heh, I like your reasoning!

From my understanding of karma, (obtained from many varied sources so it’s not just according to one school or tradition) it is mainly influenced by your own beliefs and your perception of your transgressions based upon those beliefs. It’s kinda like remorse in that regard. Some of the most interesting stuff I’ve read on it is from Chan/Zen.

Plants are living, what makes it so right to kill plants and not animals? Sentience? I’ve seen more sentience in cabbages than I see in most of the people I walk by each day.

The day that I can have a healthy life through photosynthesis is when I’ll be worried about eating things that once lived.

Man I have tried its not my fault that all the deer, quail, turkey, rabbits, etc cant out run my 12 gauge.

I cant help the fact that I am able to out smart fish on a regular basis getting them to bite a hook. That my friend the cow is just bright enough to eat and become big then joyfully walk to the stockade and get butchered. Without Man the cow itself would be an non existent. They are not the best and brightest animal around you know. They are a big walking meal for any predator on the earth. They should be happy that we give them all that land let them have a joyful carefree life. No worries about searching for food, illness etc. everything is taken care of for them. In return they repay us with nourishment.

They same could be said for the precious fruits and veggies. We would not have them in the quantities needed to support your life style as a vege. or mine as an omni. unless we cultivated them. Then yearly gathered there seeds bearing children to feast upon. But we save just enough of them to produce more for us to inturn feast upon again.

Both plants and animals are great sure. I enjoy walking in the woods, seeing bambi and mr wild onion. But I also enjoy the fruits of my labor and eat them as well.

LOL

Sorry just my take.
Phill

[quote]tiredoflogin wrote:
All I am trying to say here folks, is that give the animal a chance.[/quote]

Long enough to become a meal.

[quote]BIGRAGOO wrote:
Who gives a shit? Humans are omnivores. We can digest practically any food we eat. The key is in the ratios of what we eat. Have a steak and grow a little.[/quote]

This is the point most vegetarians seem to be missing. If a person is vegetarian by choice then fine. Please do not go about trying to prove your reasoning to meat eaters because it does not hold much scientific merit.

I don’t go looking for vegetarian websited to voice my oppinion and get into arguments, so why are you trying to voice this oppinion here?

How many articles have you read here so far?

It’s fine if you have your reasons for not eating meat, but don’t try explaining your views here in hopes of changing someone’s mind.

If you have any fitness or nutritional goals that improve your health in any way, they will be much more difficult without meat.

The truth shall set you free.

[quote]Aravind wrote:
BIGRAGOO wrote:
Who gives a shit? Humans are omnivores. We can digest practically any food we eat. The key is in the ratios of what we eat. Have a steak and grow a little.

This is the point most vegetarians seem to be missing. If a person is vegetarian by choice then fine. Please do not go about trying to prove your reasoning to meat eaters because it does not hold much scientific merit.

[/quote]

Thank you.

What is the point of your post?

[quote]Black Thorn wrote:

No one cares. btw, talking about “karma” already means any self-respecting Christian will consider you stupid/a heathen. [/quote]

Really?

[quote]
And no one cares about the Quan Vin method. So this bunch of oriental crap is only interesting if YOU ARE NOT christian or muslim.[/quote]

Does this mean being religious explicitly forbids or rules out the study of foreign philosophical concepts?

[quote]
Does this mean a little more than half the world population? Hmmm.[/quote]

What are you trying to say with this?

I agree that the initial post is redundant, but the quoted comments are not much better. Back to my grilled salmon…

[quote]michael2507 wrote:
Black Thorn wrote:

No one cares. btw, talking about “karma” already means any self-respecting Christian will consider you stupid/a heathen.

Really?[/quote]

I agree. The concept of Karma does not exist outside of Christianity to the degree that it goes against Christian teachings. Also, I would hope that no one is so blind as to only follow what they are told in a religion with absolutely no research into other faiths or religions as it leaves you completely unable to relate to anyone who doesn’t think just like you. and leaves you open to charlatans using your adopted faith against you.

From Wikapedia, Karma literally means “deed” or “act” and more broadly names the universal principle of cause and effect, action and reaction which governs all life. Karma is not fate, for man acts with free will creating his own destiny. According to the Vedas, if we sow goodness, we will reap goodness; if we sow evil, we will reap evil. Karma refers to the totality of our actions and their concommitant reactions in this and previous lives, all of which determines our future. The conquest of karma lies in intelligent action and dispassionate reaction. Not all karmas rebound immediately. Some accumulate and return unexpectedly in this or other births.

How does this go against Christianity? Jesus taught the exact same concept. He simply didn’t give it a name.

From the same source, as Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami explains it, unkindness yields spoiled fruits, called papa and good deeds bring forth sweet fruits, called punya. He further notes that as one acts, so does he become. One becomes virtuous by virtuous action, bad by bad action."

Bottom line, vegetarians can do what they want to do, but trying to convince me that meat is bad after all it has done for me is a waste of time…which only makes me hungrier.

[quote]tiredoflogin wrote:
ToShinDo wrote:
Buddha Gautama (supposedly) ate meat so long as the animal was not killed specifically for him. If it’s good enough for him, it’s good enough for me.

Firstly I don’t suppose thats true. He did indulge in all sorts of pleasures till the age of 24 after which he renounced everything to lead a life of austerity. Thats when he attained Nirvana. The commandment “Thou shalt not kill” is being violated by more Christians than ever. [/quote]

Are you fucking kidding me? There are holes in the translation of the Bible. When you look at the original language of the Bible - Hebrew and Aramic, the commandment you use is actually “Thou shalt not MURDER”. Huge difference. Killing in self defense and survival is permitted by God. Try again.

From “leg of lamb” to leg of MAN it’s only one step. Mammals are NOT stupid. They KNOW what’s going to happen to them at the threshold to the next world. Their terror, their curses, their sufferings translate into all the diseases of humanity. Mammals are TOO CLOSE to humans in evolutionary terms to justify inclusion in our diet. The killer of the cow, the person who drags the animal to the market, the purchaser, the cook and the eater all equally share in the guilt for the demise of an innocent life.

:wink:

Good news! At www.eatyourmeat.com, they are offering a refinancing of your karmic debt! I just signed up and am now qualified for their superslayer program. That means I get to eat as much meat as I want for the rest of my life GUILT FREE! with no late fees or cary overs into my next plane of existance. Man, I’m going on a meat bender. Last one was scarry though. I woke up a week later in a slaughterhouse in Nebraska covered in gravy, clothing all dis-sheveled, potato caked under my nails, with a crowd of horrified onlookers gasping in disbelief.
Vash- Be carefull when eating vegans. They are loaded with phyto estrogenic compounds from eating too much soy.

[quote]tiredoflogin wrote:
Studies of human evolution have shown that our ancestors were vegetarian by nature.[/quote]

actually…studies of human evolution have shown that our ancestors were omnivors by nature…

that’s some nice bullshit propaganda though!

[quote]Professor X wrote:
How does this go against Christianity? Jesus taught the exact same concept. He simply didn’t give it a name.
[/quote]

Organized religion gives me a headache. The teachings of most religions are the same but put in different words. However, we have a few conniving people, ranging from politicians to gurus to swamis, that take advantage of this message and twist it to fit their agenda and profit making schemes.

Consider this, I would assume that many if not most of T-Nation audience are well educated and think on a level field but we are the minority. People who lack education/clear thinking are taken in by these interpretations of teachings and blindly follow them. This perhaps leads to all the wars in the world.

If someone wants to follow a particular religion then it should be out of respect for the teachings and respect for teachings can only be attained by understanding and fully appreciating it, not just by blindly following it.

The more I think about organized religion the more I feel that I am a deist.

[quote]mindeffer01 wrote:
Good news! At www.eatyourmeat.com, they are offering a refinancing of your karmic debt! I just signed up and am now qualified for their superslayer program. That means I get to eat as much meat as I want for the rest of my life GUILT FREE! with no late fees or cary overs into my next plane of existance. Man, I’m going on a meat bender. Last one was scarry though. I woke up a week later in a slaughterhouse in Nebraska covered in gravy, clothing all dis-sheveled, potato caked under my nails, with a crowd of horrified onlookers gasping in disbelief.
[/quote]

Yea, but do they have rollover? Sometimes I don’t eat my alloted amount of meat in one month and I’d hate to see those valuable meat minutes go to waste.

http://www.t-shirts.com/printed/default.asp?sid=125720721254&cmd=enlarge&type=E&item_id=26567

[quote]BorisTheSpider wrote:
From “leg of lamb” to leg of MAN it’s only one step. Mammals are NOT stupid. They KNOW what’s going to happen to them at the threshold to the next world. Their terror, their curses, their sufferings translate into all the diseases of humanity. Mammals are TOO CLOSE to humans in evolutionary terms to justify inclusion in our diet. The killer of the cow, the person who drags the animal to the market, the purchaser, the cook and the eater all equally share in the guilt for the demise of an innocent life.[/quote]

If any of this nonsense actually made sense, then animals would also contribute to the “diseases of humanity” as they kill each other daily.

But then, I guess you were kidding.

You can exchange those unused minutes for credit towards devouring some of the cute aminals. They do hit you on veal, bunnies, and grey squirrels, but you get all of the main mammals, fowl, and fish. There is also no charge for “ugly” animls like snakes, rats, buzzards, lizards or monitors, but thats the exotic plan.

The superslayer covers all of those and more. To give you an idea of how well it works, I am now sitting in the lotus position levatating three feet in the air, and I just ate a standing rib roast of lamb. My karmic debt is Zippo!

Arent vegetables what ‘food’ eats?

Amir

BlueFpaltz! Tell me more about this shit in the meat!!! I eat two classic triple burgers from Wendys everyday and when I tire I have two whoppers, so what the fuck man??? How accurate is that book…my stomach hurts.