Cardio without Running?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Combat
1

So having returned to BJJ about 3 stone heavier and seemingly just as weak as before I am dying on the mat from pure exhaustion, like seeing black spots projectile vomiting in the toilets exhausted.

I used to run a lot but doing 5,10 and 15km runs have left me with super tight calves and sore knees which seemed to hinder my progress.

I was doing football pitch sprints but these too left me brokes and unable to explode while bridging or recover fast enough. I am looking for some conditioning to do once or twice a week that won’t burn my legs out.

I was thinking rowing machine, light kettlebells or something that does not tax the lower body.

Has anyone had any luck with this sort of conditioning or do I just need to eat more on cardio days and get used to it and hopefully adapt to the running?

2

At the point you’re describing right now, just rolling will go a long way. Do five or six 5-7min rounds will really improve your cardio, as well as things like drop-step and shrimping. Boring basic stuff, but I will do round after rounds of double-leg shots for conditioning. Box jumps, Heavy (“battle”) ropes. While having the underlying conditioning that steady state cardio will give you will always be helpful, it’s not the shortest route to improving cardio for your sport, at your level of conditioning.

A fun game that most people who are in decent shape can play, but still works at all levels, is to do 100 burpees over 10 min, doing ten a min, and using the rest of your min. to rest. First 20 or so feel very easy even for most beginners, but by the time you’re 60% done, most people are feeling. If you start blowing it out of the water increase the number per min.

This does a good job of conditioning you to high-output and explosiveness on demand, mixed with short, relatively active recovery.

3

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
A fun game that most people who are in decent shape can play, but still works at all levels, is to do 100 burpees over 10 min, doing ten a min, and using the rest of your min. to rest. First 20 or so feel very easy even for most beginners, but by the time you’re 60% done, most people are feeling. If you start blowing it out of the water increase the number per min.
[/quote]

Our trainer makes us do this as tournament prep. But we make it 10 minutes max, so you’re expected to do it as fast as you can - if you can’t do it in 8 you should think twice about competing.

4

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
At the point you’re describing right now, just rolling will go a long way. Do five or six 5-7min rounds will really improve your cardio, as well as things like drop-step and shrimping. Boring basic stuff, but I will do round after rounds of double-leg shots for conditioning. Box jumps, Heavy (“battle”) ropes. While having the underlying conditioning that steady state cardio will give you will always be helpful, it’s not the shortest route to improving cardio for your sport, at your level of conditioning.

A fun game that most people who are in decent shape can play, but still works at all levels, is to do 100 burpees over 10 min, doing ten a min, and using the rest of your min. to rest. First 20 or so feel very easy even for most beginners, but by the time you’re 60% done, most people are feeling. If you start blowing it out of the water increase the number per min.

This does a good job of conditioning you to high-output and explosiveness on demand, mixed with short, relatively active recovery.[/quote]

That’s actually a really good idea. i think burpees and box jumps could work nicely. 10 per minute seems a reasonable base to start at. Thanks dude!

5

Does rope skipping give you tight calves too?

6

Swimming sounds like it could be pretty helpful. It will help your strength a bit too. Very easy on the joints, won’t leave you tight (just stretch your shoulders and pecs a bit) and it’s good conditioning.

I would throw it in once or twice a week, no more, unless you find you love it. It can get pretty boring (for me at least) but half an hour once or twice a week will be fine and a good way of mixing it up.

7

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
At the point you’re describing right now, just rolling will go a long way. Do five or six 5-7min rounds will really improve your cardio, as well as things like drop-step and shrimping. Boring basic stuff, but I will do round after rounds of double-leg shots for conditioning. Box jumps, Heavy (“battle”) ropes. While having the underlying conditioning that steady state cardio will give you will always be helpful, it’s not the shortest route to improving cardio for your sport, at your level of conditioning.

A fun game that most people who are in decent shape can play, but still works at all levels, is to do 100 burpees over 10 min, doing ten a min, and using the rest of your min. to rest. First 20 or so feel very easy even for most beginners, but by the time you’re 60% done, most people are feeling. If you start blowing it out of the water increase the number per min.

This does a good job of conditioning you to high-output and explosiveness on demand, mixed with short, relatively active recovery.[/quote]

That’s actually a really good idea. i think burpees and box jumps could work nicely. 10 per minute seems a reasonable base to start at. Thanks dude!
[/quote]

Burpees and box jumps can be great conditioning methods, but do you really not think those will burn your legs out just as fast as the sprint training that you were previously doing?

Like Spartiates said, at this point your best bet is going to be to do just basic drilling and rolling. Personally, while rolling is great and necessary to be able to apply your techniques against resistance, drilling is more beneficial (in general, and especially for beginners) as it entails high numbers of repetitions of techniques, defenses, and counters which if done enough will become automatic when you actually go to apply them to live grappling.

One way to do this is to pick a technique that you’d like to improve, let’s take the double leg takedown since that was mentioned.

The first round it would be:

  1. You pick a set-up for the double (snap down, arm post, re-shot, etc…)
  2. You perform the set-up of your choice and execute the double on your training partner all the way to completion (you wind up in either side control of mount)
  3. You let your partner up and then he/she does the set-up and double on you
  4. You continue going 1 for 1 (could also be done 3 for 3 or 5 for 5, but I like 1 for 1 for conditioning) with your doubles until the round is over (3-5 minute rounds work well for this)

2nd round would be:

  1. You perform your set-up and double, but this time your opponent defends it (sprawl to a go behind, switch, cross face, etc…) and winds up with the dominant position
  2. You both return to neutral and now your partner executes the set-up and double and you perform the defense
  3. You continue to trade back and forth until the round ends

3rd round would be:

  1. You perform the set-up and double, your partner utilizes the defense, and you counter their defense
  2. You both return to neutral and your partner does the set-up and double, you defend it, and they counter your defense
  3. You go back and forth like this until the round ends

This type of drilling is really very open ended it the complexity of techniques or sequences that it can be applied to depending on both you and your training partner’s skill levels. If you both make it an effort to push yourselves during the drill it will also provide excellent grappling specific conditioning as well.

Don’t get me wrong, I love me some battling ropes, partner resisted drills, strongman stuff, kettlebell stuff, and all the other great supplementary conditioning methods out there. But, the type of drilling that I outlined above will provide you with both conditioning benefits (in the specific muscle groups and movement patterns that you will be using during grappling) and repetitions of techniques which will also directly apply to your live rolling. Best of both worlds IMO.

A lot of the other stuff is great for when you don’t have someone else to train with though, so your situation is obviously going to somewhat dictate what training methods are feasible/available to you.

8

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
At the point you’re describing right now, just rolling will go a long way. Do five or six 5-7min rounds will really improve your cardio, as well as things like drop-step and shrimping. Boring basic stuff, but I will do round after rounds of double-leg shots for conditioning. Box jumps, Heavy (“battle”) ropes. While having the underlying conditioning that steady state cardio will give you will always be helpful, it’s not the shortest route to improving cardio for your sport, at your level of conditioning.

A fun game that most people who are in decent shape can play, but still works at all levels, is to do 100 burpees over 10 min, doing ten a min, and using the rest of your min. to rest. First 20 or so feel very easy even for most beginners, but by the time you’re 60% done, most people are feeling. If you start blowing it out of the water increase the number per min.

This does a good job of conditioning you to high-output and explosiveness on demand, mixed with short, relatively active recovery.[/quote]

That’s actually a really good idea. i think burpees and box jumps could work nicely. 10 per minute seems a reasonable base to start at. Thanks dude!
[/quote]

Burpees and box jumps can be great conditioning methods, but do you really not think those will burn your legs out just as fast as the sprint training that you were previously doing?

Like Spartiates said, at this point your best bet is going to be to do just basic drilling and rolling. Personally, while rolling is great and necessary to be able to apply your techniques against resistance, drilling is more beneficial (in general, and especially for beginners) as it entails high numbers of repetitions of techniques, defenses, and counters which if done enough will become automatic when you actually go to apply them to live grappling.

One way to do this is to pick a technique that you’d like to improve, let’s take the double leg takedown since that was mentioned.

The first round it would be:

  1. You pick a set-up for the double (snap down, arm post, re-shot, etc…)
  2. You perform the set-up of your choice and execute the double on your training partner all the way to completion (you wind up in either side control of mount)
  3. You let your partner up and then he/she does the set-up and double on you
  4. You continue going 1 for 1 (could also be done 3 for 3 or 5 for 5, but I like 1 for 1 for conditioning) with your doubles until the round is over (3-5 minute rounds work well for this)

2nd round would be:

  1. You perform your set-up and double, but this time your opponent defends it (sprawl to a go behind, switch, cross face, etc…) and winds up with the dominant position
  2. You both return to neutral and now your partner executes the set-up and double and you perform the defense
  3. You continue to trade back and forth until the round ends

3rd round would be:

  1. You perform the set-up and double, your partner utilizes the defense, and you counter their defense
  2. You both return to neutral and your partner does the set-up and double, you defend it, and they counter your defense
  3. You go back and forth like this until the round ends

This type of drilling is really very open ended it the complexity of techniques or sequences that it can be applied to depending on both you and your training partner’s skill levels. If you both make it an effort to push yourselves during the drill it will also provide excellent grappling specific conditioning as well.

Don’t get me wrong, I love me some battling ropes, partner resisted drills, strongman stuff, kettlebell stuff, and all the other great supplementary conditioning methods out there. But, the type of drilling that I outlined above will provide you with both conditioning benefits (in the specific muscle groups and movement patterns that you will be using during grappling) and repetitions of techniques which will also directly apply to your live rolling. Best of both worlds IMO.

A lot of the other stuff is great for when you don’t have someone else to train with though, so your situation is obviously going to somewhat dictate what training methods are feasible/available to you.[/quote]

I can’t really do this where I train, which is why I think I don’t pick things up. For an hour we drill things in rounds but only things the coach tells us to, taking turns, then the second hour is half drilling half rolling then third is all rolling. However it isn’t free form, it is structured and alot of guys don’t pick it up. I am thinking of purchasing a grappling dummy and drilling at the house, but it really is not the same.

9

@sento; what do you think about grappling dummies for drilling?

10

No.

Run.

Run less distance, but run.

11

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
At the point you’re describing right now, just rolling will go a long way. Do five or six 5-7min rounds will really improve your cardio, as well as things like drop-step and shrimping. Boring basic stuff, but I will do round after rounds of double-leg shots for conditioning. Box jumps, Heavy (“battle”) ropes. While having the underlying conditioning that steady state cardio will give you will always be helpful, it’s not the shortest route to improving cardio for your sport, at your level of conditioning.

A fun game that most people who are in decent shape can play, but still works at all levels, is to do 100 burpees over 10 min, doing ten a min, and using the rest of your min. to rest. First 20 or so feel very easy even for most beginners, but by the time you’re 60% done, most people are feeling. If you start blowing it out of the water increase the number per min.

This does a good job of conditioning you to high-output and explosiveness on demand, mixed with short, relatively active recovery.[/quote]

That’s actually a really good idea. i think burpees and box jumps could work nicely. 10 per minute seems a reasonable base to start at. Thanks dude!
[/quote]

Burpees and box jumps can be great conditioning methods, but do you really not think those will burn your legs out just as fast as the sprint training that you were previously doing?

Like Spartiates said, at this point your best bet is going to be to do just basic drilling and rolling. Personally, while rolling is great and necessary to be able to apply your techniques against resistance, drilling is more beneficial (in general, and especially for beginners) as it entails high numbers of repetitions of techniques, defenses, and counters which if done enough will become automatic when you actually go to apply them to live grappling.

One way to do this is to pick a technique that you’d like to improve, let’s take the double leg takedown since that was mentioned.

The first round it would be:

  1. You pick a set-up for the double (snap down, arm post, re-shot, etc…)
  2. You perform the set-up of your choice and execute the double on your training partner all the way to completion (you wind up in either side control of mount)
  3. You let your partner up and then he/she does the set-up and double on you
  4. You continue going 1 for 1 (could also be done 3 for 3 or 5 for 5, but I like 1 for 1 for conditioning) with your doubles until the round is over (3-5 minute rounds work well for this)

2nd round would be:

  1. You perform your set-up and double, but this time your opponent defends it (sprawl to a go behind, switch, cross face, etc…) and winds up with the dominant position
  2. You both return to neutral and now your partner executes the set-up and double and you perform the defense
  3. You continue to trade back and forth until the round ends

3rd round would be:

  1. You perform the set-up and double, your partner utilizes the defense, and you counter their defense
  2. You both return to neutral and your partner does the set-up and double, you defend it, and they counter your defense
  3. You go back and forth like this until the round ends

This type of drilling is really very open ended it the complexity of techniques or sequences that it can be applied to depending on both you and your training partner’s skill levels. If you both make it an effort to push yourselves during the drill it will also provide excellent grappling specific conditioning as well.

Don’t get me wrong, I love me some battling ropes, partner resisted drills, strongman stuff, kettlebell stuff, and all the other great supplementary conditioning methods out there. But, the type of drilling that I outlined above will provide you with both conditioning benefits (in the specific muscle groups and movement patterns that you will be using during grappling) and repetitions of techniques which will also directly apply to your live rolling. Best of both worlds IMO.

A lot of the other stuff is great for when you don’t have someone else to train with though, so your situation is obviously going to somewhat dictate what training methods are feasible/available to you.[/quote]

I can’t really do this where I train, which is why I think I don’t pick things up. For an hour we drill things in rounds but only things the coach tells us to, taking turns, then the second hour is half drilling half rolling then third is all rolling. However it isn’t free form, it is structured and alot of guys don’t pick it up. I am thinking of purchasing a grappling dummy and drilling at the house, but it really is not the same.[/quote]

Well, first, like I said the drilling can be applied to literally any technique or sequence of techniques, so in a way you already are doing this (though possibly with less focus on what you individually need to work on and quite possibly with less intensity/speed then what I am describing). Understand that there are a number of people in the class who likely range in size, shape, and skill level, so the instructor is probably just picking a random position to work from, group of submissions (like say armbars), or sequence of techniques (say perhaps a lock flow).

All of this is good and you need to be doing this, but it’s also somewhat expected that you all will continue to practice these skills on your own and develop them to fit your own personal arsenal of techniques that work for your “style” of grappling. As an instructor myself I realize that this is doesn’t actually happen in a lot of cases and as a result I try my best to give plenty of opportunities for my students to practice their techniques (against varying degrees of resistance) and cover a fairly wide range of techniques that hopefully will give each student at least a few things that they feel work well for them. But even then, the students who continue to drill on their own will usually make more progress than those who do not.

In other words, your attitude about the drilling that you do seems off; look at it as your opportunity to learn the techniques through repetition and every time you perform a technique you have the opportunity to either improve, stagnate, or even regress depending on how much focus on the details and refinement of each technique that you practice. When you go on to more resisted drilling, isolated “sparring”/rolling, or freestyle sparring/live rolling you should be looking for opportunities to attempt to apply the techniques that you practiced in that class, that is really the purpose of live sparring/rolling anyhow, not “winning” as many beginners seem to think.

12

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
@sento; what do you think about grappling dummies for drilling?[/quote]

They can be good for certain things (like high flying throws, ground and pound drills, certain submissions), but they have their limitations (their joints don’t articulate like real joints, they can’t stand on their own, and most note ably they are inanimate objects). But, in the case where you absolutely didn’t have access to a decent training partner they can be a useful piece of equipment as long as you understand their limitations and use them appropriately.

13

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
No.

Run.

Run less distance, but run. [/quote]

As much as I despise running and have argued against it in the past in favor of other things (having it be last on the conditioning list) I would agree with your post here…except for one thing.

BJJ is completely utterly different in the way it works you than striking. I could when I was training 2x a day keep up with heavy bag rounds, even sparring if I had to, but put me on a mat and I’m fucked inside a few minutes (lets assume I last a few minutes because I don’t train BJJ). It just plain doesn’t transfer as much as you’d think for a guy in his position.

After he gets used to rolling lots of rounds and develops better conditioning from just doing the sport, yeah he needs to run more, as much as I hate to say it. But now…now I really think it’s much more important to get used to the specific energy demands of BJJ and just do as much as possible. Add in running in a little bit IMHO.

And OP–tight calves aren’t an excuse. They make foam rollers, lax balls, golf balls, tennis balls, PVC pipe, hell rolling pins or broom handles. It’s a pain in the ass, but you have to work EVERY DAY on them with the pvc and stretching, multiple times a day. That’s the breaks man. You got that way from ignoring them, and I’ve seen literally dozens of athletes and every day people the same way.

14

Guys what are your thoughts on jump rope for cardio?is it anywhere near as effective as running?

15

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
Guys what are your thoughts on jump rope for cardio?is it anywhere near as effective as running?[/quote]
Hi.
I think its extremely useful in so much that intervals are very easily improvised and it can be performed absolutely anywhere.

However, I have to say that the impact involved has had a huge negative impact on my own training at times. Much more so than running.

16

[quote]donnydarkoirl wrote:

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
Guys what are your thoughts on jump rope for cardio?is it anywhere near as effective as running?[/quote]
Hi.
I think its extremely useful in so much that intervals are very easily improvised and it can be performed absolutely anywhere.

However, I have to say that the impact involved has had a huge negative impact on my own training at times. Much more so than running.[/quote]

In what way? As far as it being hard to recover from do you mean? I just found all my uncles old ropes and boxing stuff at my nanas, got me thinking about it.

17

He means the impact on the ankles - the fact that they have to recover from several hundred small jumps. I becomes an issue once you really up the volume.

18

If you can’t run, walk very fucking fast with a weight vest on.

Burpee’s are outstanding.

Kipping pull ups are awesome if you know how to do them and your muscles and joints are strong and have a good base.

A circuit of explosive jumps, explosive push ups and explosive chins for 5 rounds and trying to cut time each time you do it

Kettlebell swings, cleans, clean and press and snatch circuit.

100 kicks per leg for time

100 punches per arm for time

dragon walks for time

Bear crawling for time.

There’s enough variation to keep you from getting stale, to up the intensity pretty easy, to mix and match and to get your cardio in.

19

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
Guys what are your thoughts on jump rope for cardio?is it anywhere near as effective as running?[/quote]

It can be great for making you “light on your feet”, for strengthening up the calves, and for coordination. But just like running doing too much of it (especially without doing prehab stuff so you don’t develop crazy muscle imbalances) can run you into problems down the road. It’s really best to mix up your supplementary cardio IME; that will give you the best chance of minimizing overuse injuries (and since you have no professional career aspirations remaining injury free and healthy should really be at the top of your priority list).

20

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
In what way? As far as it being hard to recover from do you mean? I just found all my uncles old ropes and boxing stuff at my nanas, got me thinking about it.[/quote]
It takes a real toll on your ankles, knees and calve muscles.
If you have the right surface it can be excellent, but a bad surface can wreak havoc.