Cardio While Bulking?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I personally think the approach is faulty. I am all for limited cardio when gaining. I am not for the belief that someone is going to gain a significant amount of muscle while also losing a significant amount of body fat at the exact same time unless they are a beginner or some freakishly genetically gifted mesomorph.[/quote]

True, but what about using a limited and moderate amount of cardio while bulking to simply manage body fat, not lose ‘a significant amount’?

I think moderate cardio when bulking is good, in the right balance. The thing is, it’s easy to go overboard with cardio, get ‘addicted’ and lose your focus on bulking. I for one, need to exercise discipline when doing cardio during a ‘bulking’ cycle, to keep it moderate and keep my focus on the big picture of bulking. The cardio is meant to manage fat levels, not drastically reduce them; that’s what cutting is for. And if you can enter your cut with a reasonably low level of bf, you’re less likely to catabolize all that hard-earned muscle, since the diet won’t have to last as long. (just my opinion).

Say you do just 20 minutes of HIIT, or even a moderate intensity cardio session, after weights. You’re essentially in a fasted state; muscle glycogen has been mostly spent on the weight session. So you’re burning fat. But any excess calories (especially protein) you eat after that workout (and in the following 24 hours) is going to be used to rebuild muscle - that’s your body’s priority at that point.

And the lab studies that suggest that keeping workouts under an hour to optimize GH aren’t panning out on the gym floor. If you lift heavy, and eat/sleep enough to recover, your body will build muscle. It’s not stupid.

Again - just my opinion :slight_smile:

22

[quote]Jinx Me wrote:

True, but what about using a limited and moderate amount of cardio while bulking to simply manage body fat, not lose ‘a significant amount’? [/quote]

I agree with that completely. I am doing similar right now because I want to maintain the weight I am at for a couple of months. Taking it further, however, and expecting to gain 5-10lbs of muscle while losing 10lbs of fat isn’t realistic…at least naturally.

23

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Jinx Me wrote:

True, but what about using a limited and moderate amount of cardio while bulking to simply manage body fat, not lose ‘a significant amount’?

I agree with that completely. I am doing similar right now because I want to maintain the weight I am at for a couple of months. Taking it further, however, and expecting to gain 5-10lbs of muscle while losing 10lbs of fat isn’t realistic…at least naturally.[/quote]

Exactly. Also as far as the fasted cardio goes,Dr Lowery wrote that I believe for people who are trying to get cut. Not for people who are trying to put on a signifigant amount of size. Like I’ve said before if I didn’t have a job that requires a decent amount of physical activity I would also toss in a little bit of cardio just to help minimize fat gains but I wouldn’t do this fasted. When trying to gain why would you ever wanna be in a catabolic state?

You wanna talk about authors well here’s Biotest whore Dave Barr himself

We should never be completely fasted. As soon as you’re protein starved, you start breaking down muscle. Throw a catabolic activity like cardio on top of that and you’re begging to waste away. Fortunately, it’s not too difficult to prevent this muscle catabolism, because all we have to do is eat a little protein. When it comes to cardio, eating protein before will preserve muscle tissue without impacting fat loss. Metabolic Drive is the perfect protein for this, because its slow entry into the blood limits the amount of amino acids that’ll be used for energy.

24

[quote]K-Narf wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Jinx Me wrote:

True, but what about using a limited and moderate amount of cardio while bulking to simply manage body fat, not lose ‘a significant amount’?

I agree with that completely. I am doing similar right now because I want to maintain the weight I am at for a couple of months. Taking it further, however, and expecting to gain 5-10lbs of muscle while losing 10lbs of fat isn’t realistic…at least naturally.

Exactly. Also as far as the fasted cardio goes,Dr Lowery wrote that I believe for people who are trying to get cut. Not for people who are trying to put on a signifigant amount of size. Like I’ve said before if I didn’t have a job that requires a decent amount of physical activity I would also toss in a little bit of cardio just to help minimize fat gains but I wouldn’t do this fasted. When trying to gain why would you ever wanna be in a catabolic state?

You wanna talk about authors well here’s Biotest whore Dave Barr himself

We should never be completely fasted. As soon as you’re protein starved, you start breaking down muscle. Throw a catabolic activity like cardio on top of that and you’re begging to waste away. Fortunately, it’s not too difficult to prevent this muscle catabolism, because all we have to do is eat a little protein. When it comes to cardio, eating protein before will preserve muscle tissue without impacting fat loss. Metabolic Drive is the perfect protein for this, because its slow entry into the blood limits the amount of amino acids that’ll be used for energy.

[/quote]

By the way if this is working for you then by all means keep doing it but that doesn’t mean its for everyone. The OP needs to try out these methods for himself before he makes hi decision.

25

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Taking it further, however, and expecting to gain 5-10lbs of muscle while losing 10lbs of fat isn’t realistic…at least naturally.[/quote]

What about losing only 5 lbs fat and gaining 10 lbs muscle? I am on the fence of giving this a shot.

My previous HST cycle I gained 16 pounds. My skin fold stayed the same. I think I will give it a shot for the first month of the cycle and see where it leaves me. I measure every saturday, I should be able to detect any changes that are different than my last cycle.

26

[quote]beaul wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Taking it further, however, and expecting to gain 5-10lbs of muscle while losing 10lbs of fat isn’t realistic…at least naturally.

What about losing only 5 lbs fat and gaining 10 lbs muscle? I am on the fence of giving this a shot.

My previous HST cycle I gained 16 pounds. My skin fold stayed the same. I think I will give it a shot for the first month of the cycle and see where it leaves me. I measure every saturday, I should be able to detect any changes that are different than my last cycle.

[/quote]

I can’t remember who said this, but one T-Nation author, when asked about how to stay lean, said something to the effect of ‘don’t get fat to begin with.’

Maybe instead of trying to build more muscle while losing fat, the answer is to take a short hiatus from bulking, lose the five or ten pounds, and then go back to bulking. Then you’re starting a new bulk with a relatively low bf level, and you can manage that body fat with limited cardio and a clean diet. In effect, you’re starting with a clean slate, and you don’t have to worry about splitting your focus and trying to lose fat while gaining muscle.

If you find yourself creeping back up to a higher bf level, you can take another short hiatus to lose it (losing a few pounds is nothing - probably take you a few weeks), or you can experiment with eating a little less (don’t kill me Prof X), or keep your calories the same but adjust macros (more protein fewer carbs for example). Or you can add more cardio if you’re not already doing very much.

Bottom line is that managing bf is a lot easier than trying to lose fat while gaining muscle. Not to say that it’s impossible, but it’s not easy to focus on two things at once, and it does take time. The danger of splitting your focus is probably the big issue; it’s more of a mental challenge in some ways. Easier to focus on one goal at a time.

27

[quote]beaul wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Taking it further, however, and expecting to gain 5-10lbs of muscle while losing 10lbs of fat isn’t realistic…at least naturally.

What about losing only 5 lbs fat and gaining 10 lbs muscle? I am on the fence of giving this a shot. [/quote]

G E N E T I C S

Your diet is important as well as your training. However, the largest factor that will determine just how much muscle is gained from any effort or how much fat is lost will be your genetics and/or your metabolism. I have lost body fat and gained muscle before.

Does that mean you would by doing what I did? Nope. I also didn’t try to pull my body in two directions. It is simply how my body responded that time to what I was doing. You can’t predict muscle gains. Very often, someone could train for two months and see minimal progress and then gain 3-5lbs of lean body mass over a few days. This has happened to me before as well. Your body doesn’t grow according to YOUR schedule. It is a very complex machine and I am very skeptical of those trainers who claim they have the magic workout that will suddenly overwhelm every hormonal balancing act your body is engaged in on a daily basis.

28

[quote]K-Narf wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Jinx Me wrote:

True, but what about using a limited and moderate amount of cardio while bulking to simply manage body fat, not lose ‘a significant amount’?

I agree with that completely. I am doing similar right now because I want to maintain the weight I am at for a couple of months. Taking it further, however, and expecting to gain 5-10lbs of muscle while losing 10lbs of fat isn’t realistic…at least naturally.

Exactly. Also as far as the fasted cardio goes,Dr Lowery wrote that I believe for people who are trying to get cut. Not for people who are trying to put on a signifigant amount of size. Like I’ve said before if I didn’t have a job that requires a decent amount of physical activity I would also toss in a little bit of cardio just to help minimize fat gains but I wouldn’t do this fasted. When trying to gain why would you ever wanna be in a catabolic state?

You wanna talk about authors well here’s Biotest whore Dave Barr himself

We should never be completely fasted. As soon as you’re protein starved, you start breaking down muscle. Throw a catabolic activity like cardio on top of that and you’re begging to waste away. Fortunately, it’s not too difficult to prevent this muscle catabolism, because all we have to do is eat a little protein. When it comes to cardio, eating protein before will preserve muscle tissue without impacting fat loss. Metabolic Drive is the perfect protein for this, because its slow entry into the blood limits the amount of amino acids that’ll be used for energy.

[/quote]

This is something I will definitely have to take into consideration from now on. Possibly consuing a protein shake before the morning cardio session, then eating the morning meal.

Why I LOVE this site…improving health and physique everyday.

  • Ethan
29

[quote]Professor X wrote:
beaul wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Taking it further, however, and expecting to gain 5-10lbs of muscle while losing 10lbs of fat isn’t realistic…at least naturally.

What about losing only 5 lbs fat and gaining 10 lbs muscle? I am on the fence of giving this a shot.

G E N E T I C S

Your diet is important as well as your training. However, the largest factor that will determine just how much muscle is gained from any effort or how much fat is lost will be your genetics and/or your metabolism. I have lost body fat and gained muscle before.

Does that mean you would by doing what I did? Nope. I also didn’t try to pull my body in two directions. It is simply how my body responded that time to what I was doing. You can’t predict muscle gains. Very often, someone could train for two months and see minimal progress and then gain 3-5lbs of lean body mass over a few days. This has happened to me before as well. Your body doesn’t grow according to YOUR schedule. It is a very complex machine and I am very skeptical of those trainers who claim they have the magic workout that will suddenly overwhelm every hormonal balancing act your body is engaged in on a daily basis.[/quote]

I believe that genetics does play a big role in this. Genetics is one of the reasons why I do the cardio to begin with. Basically as Jinx Me has been saying, and as I think of it, the cardio helps burn some fat, but mostly manages my high calorie intake for gaining muscle so I don’t become fat or lose any of the definition I have already.

30

Hey Prof X-

Just reminding you about those pictures.

When you are bulking, do you force feed a lot or a just a little? I’m sure your body’s appetite gradually increases anyways right?

How often do you train your calves currently? Once a week?

Generally speaking, how many months out of the year do you spend bulking and how many months out of the year do you spend cutting?

Once you are in your cutting phase, do you set a poundage/weight goal (20 lbs, etc) or go by the mirror?

Are there any authors/coaches on this site (or another site) that you particularly like? You never really mention anybody’s name. I’m not trying to make you worship a “guru” but just curious.

31

[quote]BPC wrote:
Hey Prof X-

Just reminding you about those pictures.
[/quote]

I just PM’d you.

[quote]
When you are bulking, do you force feed a lot or a just a little? I’m sure your body’s appetite gradually increases anyways right?[/quote]

I don’t have to “force” much food down at this point. I used to when I was smaller but my body seems to be pretty used to it. There are times when I eat when I am not “hungry”, but it isn’t like I am gagging food down.

[quote]
How often do you train your calves currently? Once a week?[/quote]

I wear shorts to the gym almost daily now. I also train my calves almost as often because of that.

[quote]
Generally speaking, how many months out of the year do you spend bulking and how many months out of the year do you spend cutting? [/quote]

I am not really “bulking” at this point. I did that already. I’m a big guy because of it and years of lifting. I drop weight until I start hearing, “psst, hey…hey you…yeah you…boy you look fine” from random women.

If I ever plan on competing (and I am truly considering it within two more years) then I will truly “cut” all of the way down to veins and shit. I like the way I look currently. The only people who would call my current condition “fat” are retarded newbies who think anyone without their abs showing in full detail is “fat”.

[quote]
Once you are in your cutting phase, do you set a poundage/weight goal (20 lbs, etc) or go by the mirror?[/quote]

I usually do set a weight goal but adjust my goals based on what I see in the mirror. Considering the responses I get from people I train with and others, it just makes little sense for me to lose muscle and completely diet down right now when my goal is to be able to compete at a weight around 230+lbs. That means carrying a good deal of size “bulked up”.

I don’t read most of the training articles on this site. I have no idea what most of them think as far as training.

32

[quote]Professor X wrote:
BPC wrote:
Hey Prof X-

Just reminding you about those pictures.

I just PM’d you.

When you are bulking, do you force feed a lot or a just a little? I’m sure your body’s appetite gradually increases anyways right?

I don’t have to “force” much food down at this point. I used to when I was smaller but my body seems to be pretty used to it. There are times when I eat when I am not “hungry”, but it isn’t like I am gagging food down.

How often do you train your calves currently? Once a week?

I wear shorts to the gym almost daily now. I also train my calves almost as often because of that.

Generally speaking, how many months out of the year do you spend bulking and how many months out of the year do you spend cutting?

I am not really “bulking” at this point. I did that already. I’m a big guy because of it and years of lifting. I drop weight until I start hearing, “psst, hey…hey you…yeah you…boy you look fine” from random women.

If I ever plan on competing (and I am truly considering it within two more years) then I will truly “cut” all of the way down to veins and shit. I like the way I look currently. The only people who would call my current condition “fat” are retarded newbies who think anyone without their abs showing in full detail is “fat”.

Once you are in your cutting phase, do you set a poundage/weight goal (20 lbs, etc) or go by the mirror?

I usually do set a weight goal but adjust my goals based on what I see in the mirror. Considering the responses I get from people I train with and others, it just makes little sense for me to lose muscle and completely diet down right now when my goal is to be able to compete at a weight around 230+lbs. That means carrying a good deal of size “bulked up”.

Are there any authors/coaches on this site (or another site) that you particularly like? You never really mention anybody’s name. I’m not trying to make you worship a “guru” but just curious.

I don’t read most of the training articles on this site. I have no idea what most of them think as far as training.
[/quote]

Thanks.

Gotcha on the food.

Daily calf training huh? What do you do for calves? Do you think calves and abs are the only muscles that need to be trained that often?

I understand your bulking/cutting points.

Why don’t you read any articles on this site? Why do you come to the site so frequently then? Just to post? I always thought that you were open minded enough to read about new and different ideas.

Where did you get most of your training information other than personal experience and anatomy books? Most of your training philosophies sound like traditional bodybuilding methods to me (Arnold, Zane, etc)

33

Google for “Massive eating calculator”
and/or read JB’s Massive Eating article.

I lift 4 out of 8 days, and do cardio on 3 of the off days.

I just tried “GPP ASAP” (Chad Waterbury) and loved it. I’m gonna do that 1-2 times per week. I do sprint intervals or just plain sprints one day, and sometimes one 30 minute jog.

So…GPP ASAP once per week or twice if I want
one interval day (try hitting a heavy bag for a minute, jumping rope for 2 minutes, then walking or resting for 2 minutes, repeat 4-6 times) or sprints/sprint-walk intervals
one aerobic cardio day, jogging/cycling

The Massive Eating calculator will show you the # of calories the exercise burns per week, and therefore what you need to add to gain.

34

Prof: I’m also interested in what you do for calves if they’re done daily…Also - what is your ab routine? I’m currently doing 2 days on, 1 off.

  • Ethan
35

[quote]cardinal25 wrote:

How often do you train your calves currently? Once a week?

I wear shorts to the gym almost daily now. I also train my calves almost as often because of that.

Prof: I’m also interested in what you do for calves if they’re done daily…Also - what is your ab routine? I’m currently doing 2 days on, 1 off.

  • Ethan[/quote]

Calves aren’t anything special. usually three sets of seated calf raises and 3-4 sets of standing calf raises. I hate my calves but I really don’t have anything to judge them by. I have never gotten a compliment on them. I just know they measure 18" which may sound like an ok measurement, but they seem to be lacking to me to a significant degree. I have not been focusing on ab work much. I plan to.