T Nation

Cardio Rountable Continuation Thread


At first, I wasn't going to do it, but on second thought I thought it would be worth it since there seems to be this trend of college-edumucated blowhards that think they know more than the Berardi's and Lowery's of the world and challenge their discourse disrespectfully and with no research backup of their own. Truly scum of the T-Nation world. Let's eradicate them one by one. Here is the original thread for anyone who is interested.


And my latest response to the up and coming trolls of T-Nation...

My was that surprising. Defending every one of his points without admitting at all that he came across as a joe "know it all" blowhard college boy. Dismissing the contributors points without adding any concrete evidence to back up his points and being overly disrespectful. Did we really think he was going to admit that he came across as a jackass? Of course not.

I seriously could never do what John Berardi or Lonnie Lowery does because I just could not tolerate the number of young college boy jackasses that spout of their ill-informed opinions as easily as they take a shit after I've put together a well thought out discussion after hundreds and thousands of hours worth of work, study, analysis, and feedback from thousands of clients.

Congratulations "Dan 'intelligence' killa", you responded just like I predicted. Continue you on with these moronic posts and you will most certainly at least gather a few moronic followers eventually...maybe... hopefully...



I read the discussion in the roundtable, but I'm still not sure why you have such a beef with this guy.


Dr. John gets it. TC gets it. Ask any of the contributors on the thread if they get it.

The bottom line is that there is a "value-added" way to add to a discussion and a "dickhead" way to do it. I've already explained in great detail both the "value-added" way and the "dickhead" way to do it in my previous posts.

What don't you get? My beef is with anyone who pulls this crap, not just this guy. I've seen this happen over and over again. The wannabe hot shots that have nothing of value to add; they just tear down contributors with blind internet posts with little or no thought or tact going into them. Capiche?


In other words, to simplify the thought to its essence, people need to quit being fucking trolls. Right?


Yep, you got it.


Man you need to get over yourself. Do you just sit here all day and hunt down typos? Get a life and quit tearing down people. You're a poor example of a T-man. The Cardio post is about "fasted" cardio, not about how much you disrespect everyone's opinion.

Are you jealous of me because I don't have Dr. in front of my name, yet I can still come up with intelligent and reasonable additions to a DISCUSSION forum? JB and LL didn't always have that Ph.D. You're the kind of moron that would've insulted them a few years ago. Don't you know that the future JB's and LL's are members of this site right now. You're the true jackoff. Go blow yourself hard.


There is a point where I want to join in Randmans little rant.

Yes, the scientific data is the same for everyone, and no, you don?t have to have an academic degree to be able to draw intelligent conclusions from them.

The real difference IMHO is real world experience. I?m sure all of the guys debating in that article use methods and techniques that have no scientific foundation (yet) but work anyway.

To argue with that kind of experience is pointless, because if it works it works. Doesn?t matter if some college textbook says it shouldn?t work, it works anyway.

In CT "Da Freak" posts, DaFreak did fasted cardio and a little bit of cardio after workouts. Look at the pictures. Argue with that kind of results.

I wonder how all those ancient olympic athletes trained, because their lack of scientific data must have meant they got no results whatsoever.


Damn straight. Like I said last week, "if it works, do it - even if you don't know why".

I'll say that DaFreak may be called that for a reason, many body types may not get away with that just like JB pointed out. DaFreak is not an ecto.

I'll say this... most people have the ability to build more muscle in one day than they could ever burn in 30 minutes of walking. Especially if supplementation is used and the other variables are right on.

So it's not that fasted state cardio doesn't work - nobody ever said it doesn't burn fat. The question is who should use it, when and how much can you get away with. The roundtable really helped out in establishing some guidelines to consider.

LL, JB, DB, CT, you guys and all your experience rocks. Thanks for shooting straight and giving us no BS info to use.


I'll post a response to IHateGymMorons drivel on the original cardio roundtable thread here.

I did spend some time on it. I thought it was worth it since there always seems to be one or two of you wannabe Berardi's that pop up on these threads. Hopefully the next wannabe Berardi will think twice before posting hollow pablum on an otherwise interesting thread.

It doesn't bother me at all. What's funny is you have to associate with people who lift big because you can't.

It happens occasionally. By the way, you spelled appearance wrong in your first sentence.

Why? Because I called you out? Then brand me a jackoff. As for ruining the thread, I beg to differ. As soon as you and bufallokilla started posting, that was when the thread took a turn for the worse.

Actually your calling quite a few people losers then. There is a continuation thread where others have agreed with me as well. I guess your right and everyone else is wrong huh? I guess Dr. Ryan and TC are wrong?

References and credentials for what??? I'm not trying to write a dissertation on fasted cardio. Now you are really reaching GymMoron.

So, you spent 2 minutes and 32 seconds and I spent 3 minutes and 48 seconds on mine. Congratulations!

We have many functional and open minds on this forum. And we all would say that you brought up nothing of value. Now go back to your little athletes and try to impress them with your self-importance because it's not working here.


And your a shining example? Ahahahaha!!!

Correction. Not disrespecting "everyone's opinion"; just yours and buffalokilla's.

I almost spit out my shake reading this one. Jealous? GymMoron, that was a good one. There were no additions, just parroting repeats of the real PHD's and a bunch of opinions with an "I think" with no references of your own.

This is where you are dead wrong. I guarantee JB and LL just didn't come on forums and start spouting off stuff without very well thought out responses that are referenced. As a matter of fact, I bet they added very little conjecture on forums at all in the early going.

They were probably doing a lot more listening and observing than jaw-jacking. Probably studying like hell, observing results with their growing client base, and writing peer-reviewed papers that were cross-referenced to death. After years of doing this, they then garnered the experience to come on these forums and share their thoughts. You, on the other hand, should just keep quiet for a bit.

Bwahahahaha!!! Trust me. You'll never be a JB or LL.

If I could, I probably would.


Alright, I'll bite.

I said "I'll be the first to admit I've never been the diplomatic type. I guess it comes across better in real life, when I'm talking about this kind of stuff with professors and peers there's never any hurt feelings. I am sorry if I offended any of the contributors... somehow I doubt that CT went home and cried himself to sleep though. I didn't mean to be disrespectful, just challenging without blowing smoke."

I admitted that I may have, depending on how you read my post. When I read it, I see frustration at a futile discussion that isn't moving anything forward. What the authors said is right - I never said they were wrong. It's just not the best way to go about fat loss, so I don't understand why such a discussion is needed.

If you look again, and read it while attempting comprehension, I didn't do that.

Not to be a dick, but most of what the contributors said wasn't cited either. It's inefficient to do so. I'll stand by my response to this in the other thread. It's not my fault if you can't go read a few books and studies.

That's a matter of opinion - I already stated an apology if I offended any of the contributors, it wasn't my intent.

Um..."I'll be the first to admit I've never been the diplomatic type. I guess it comes across better in real life, when I'm talking about this kind of stuff with professors and peers there's never any hurt feelings. I am sorry if I offended any of the contributors... somehow I doubt that CT went home and cried himself to sleep though. I didn't mean to be disrespectful, just challenging without blowing smoke."

Again, I never said they were wrong. I just said it's a pretty moot discussion. It's rather like discussing which is better for breakfast when cutting, Apple Jacks or Golden Grahams. Both CAN be used in a successful leaning phase. But should they? If it's all you have to eat, yes, but every effort should be made to have something better like oatmeal and eggs. Do you see where I'm going with this?

You goaded me to. When someone calls you an idiotic jackass after you draw attention to the fact that fasted morning aerobic work is not most efficient and therefore unnecessary unless the best form can't be done, it feels necessary to respond.

I'm not trying to gain followers, just point out that morning fasted aerobic work shouldn't be done a majority of the time because there are better ways to reach the goal of fatloss and cardiovascular health. If I was trying to gain followers, I'd post some picture of a hot girl in a thong with what I wrote. That seems to do the trick pretty easily around here.



You know, Dan, I really like how you responded to my posts. You actually did apologize for potentially offending the contributors and I appreciate that. To learn from mistakes is a key skill that most people don't have. It seems like you are doing that. You won't hear another peep out of me on this subject towards you. We'll have to see about IHateGymMorons however.


arguing about minutiae is fun, isn't it?

i consider buffkilla and gymmoron to be valuable forum members. randman too.

besides, the fasted cardio discussion has been thrown way out of proportion because there hasn't been a demonstrated difference between fasted or fed cardio wrt fat loss.


I think we have clear proof that fasted cardio doesn't work, right here on this forum.

Randman has been dancing away, slapping the air for months on end, and I've never seen him eat anything.

He hasn't lost an ounce of fat.

What more proof do we need?


Man you need to quit trying to impress yourself. Chances are with frustrated forum cops like you, that you are as fat as the gay dinosaur in your avatar. Not too many respected people have come out on your behalf. Nice try though. In fact it sounds like someone was making fun of you. I'm glad I don't have to associate with losers like you.


that's pretty funny.