Cardio During Bulking?

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:
Here I am, coming to fuck everything thing up and say that I do no cardio at all during the offseason and as little as possible during prep

Uhhhhhhhhh

lol[/quote]

Serious question here, you realize that you are an outliar genetically right? [/quote]

I consider myself maybe slightly over normal genetic to be honest but really not that much. I started off as a 145lbs kid when I was 17yrs old. I did have abs and a good structure even at that time and do have an easy time getting lean BUT its also a recommendation by JM. Im pretty sure he has most/all of his guys at 0 cardio during the offseason[/quote]
Na I don’t think you need above average genetics or anything. I honestly believe you can be an extremely high level bodybuilder or powerlifter with pretty much no cardio whatsoever. The reason to do cardio isn’t to become a better bber/pler but it’s to have healthier lungs and heart in addition to everything else.

22

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:
Here I am, coming to fuck everything thing up and say that I do no cardio at all during the offseason and as little as possible during prep

Uhhhhhhhhh

lol[/quote]

Serious question here, you realize that you are an outliar genetically right? [/quote]

I consider myself maybe slightly over normal genetic to be honest but really not that much. I started off as a 145lbs kid when I was 17yrs old. I did have abs and a good structure even at that time and do have an easy time getting lean BUT its also a recommendation by JM. Im pretty sure he has most/all of his guys at 0 cardio during the offseason[/quote]

If you are meticulous about your diet, as you obviously are, then you can get away with minimal/zero cardio during the off season.
JM’s workouts are also quit demanding metabolically are they not?

The OP said he is on his first cycle so depending on what he’s running his added “supplementation” should allow for bulking with minimal cardio if fat gain is the main concern.
I think cardio is a good idea for heart health and condition for everyday activities but if nutrition and supps are dialed in you might not need it to keep fat gain at bay.

23

There are a number of reasons to incorporate cardio and depending on the goal it may, or may not, be necessary.
Firstly, it goes without saying that if one of your goals is overall health then cardio should be implemented to help train your cardiovascular system. **Cardio can be the normal SS stuff on up to lifting routines with very little rest, complexes, EPOC stuff, etc. Anything that elevates heart rate.

If you are wanting to gain with out getting too sloppy and are unable (schedule, family, discipline, just a big pussy) to follow a diet that allows for gains with minimal fat then throwing in a day or 2-3 of cardio will only help. Keeping in mind that cardio, even SS, still requires energy and must be fed.

If you are wanting to gain, you know that you are going to get sloppy and are ok with that (never understand that logic), then when it comes time to diet down the same rules still apply. If you can’t follow a relatively clean diet to slowly bring the weight off then you will need to add the cardio in.

It all comes back to the goal and your will. It can be done with or without cardio, and if your blood work and hormones are in check then there should not be any real issues. zraw prepping without cardio is not some big impressive feat (no disrespect at all) and he will agree with me that most people (with normal levels) can accomplish the same thing but they either lack the discipline or the knowledge.

One thing you may want to ask yourself is this, “Would you rather be hoooge and get winded walking up a flight of 4 stairs, or be hoooge and still out run your 17 yo son who thinks that he can take his old man?” I prefer the latter :wink:

24

In the last 4 months I’ve just stopped resting as long between sets when lifting. Keeps my heart rate elevated the entire session, and since doing that I can always play games of pick-up basketball or go running for a few miles without getting winded. This is opposed to when I use to always rest 3-5 mins between sets, and lost all my cardiovascular endurance.

I still like to go running and cardio sometimes and stuff, but I guess I feel like you can get the same results by just cutting rest intervals down.

25

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
In the last 4 months I’ve just stopped resting as long between sets when lifting. Keeps my heart rate elevated the entire session, and since doing that I can always play games of pick-up basketball or go running for a few miles without getting winded. This is opposed to when I use to always rest 3-5 mins between sets, and lost all my cardiovascular endurance.

I still like to go running and cardio sometimes and stuff, but I guess I feel like you can get the same results by just cutting rest intervals down. [/quote]

5 minutes between sets? I forgot just how much eye candy there is at college gyms :slight_smile:

26

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
In the last 4 months I’ve just stopped resting as long between sets when lifting. Keeps my heart rate elevated the entire session, and since doing that I can always play games of pick-up basketball or go running for a few miles without getting winded. This is opposed to when I use to always rest 3-5 mins between sets, and lost all my cardiovascular endurance.

I still like to go running and cardio sometimes and stuff, but I guess I feel like you can get the same results by just cutting rest intervals down. [/quote]

5 minutes between sets? I forgot just how much eye candy there is at college gyms :slight_smile: [/quote]

LOL no it was just something I read as a newb, need ALL kinds of rest in between heavy sets, blah blah blah.

I was dumb(er).

27

[quote]csulli wrote:
Na I don’t think you need above average genetics or anything. I honestly believe you can be an extremely high level bodybuilder or powerlifter with pretty much no cardio whatsoever. The reason to do cardio isn’t to become a better bber/pler but it’s to have healthier lungs and heart in addition to everything else.[/quote]

I agree with all the sentiments in this thread that have echoed similarly to ^ this post.

No, not every needs it to look awesome. Congratulations if that’s the case.

Without beating a dead horse, I can offer 10-30 minutes (when dieting, fucking fat genetics) after a workout for another important aspect of health, general well-being AND physical appearance.

I don’t really understanding not doing it. I may be a former fat fuck, but who honestly doesn’t enjoy putting away more calories?

28

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
Na I don’t think you need above average genetics or anything. I honestly believe you can be an extremely high level bodybuilder or powerlifter with pretty much no cardio whatsoever. The reason to do cardio isn’t to become a better bber/pler but it’s to have healthier lungs and heart in addition to everything else.[/quote]

I agree with all the sentiments in this thread that have echoed similarly to ^ this post.

No, not every needs it to look awesome. Congratulations if that’s the case.

Without beating a dead horse, I can offer 10-30 minutes (when dieting, fucking fat genetics) after a workout for another important aspect of health, general well-being AND physical appearance.

I don’t really understanding not doing it. I may be a former fat fuck, but who honestly doesn’t enjoy putting away more calories?[/quote]

Cardio being needed and doing it for the health reasons I listed are different. (I just quoted the last post btw scc).

Just because you can get lean and remain lean with out cardio doesn’t mean you should do some. Way too mnay benefits to cut it out.

29

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Just because you can get lean and remain lean with out cardio doesn’t mean you should do some. Way too mnay benefits to cut it out. [/quote]

I’m not sure I agree with this tbh, don’t you get all the same health benefits from intense lifting sessions? I mean if you do 5 sets of 15 reps on squats, haven’t you essentially given yourself all the same benefits as if you did some cardio that day?

30

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Just because you can get lean and remain lean with out cardio doesn’t mean you should do some. Way too mnay benefits to cut it out. [/quote]

I’m not sure I agree with this tbh, don’t you get all the same health benefits from intense lifting sessions? I mean if you do 5 sets of 15 reps on squats, haven’t you essentially given yourself all the same benefits as if you did some cardio that day?[/quote]

I’m curious about this as well. I train in a giant set fashion, so my “set” lasts 3-5 minutes depending on what I’m doing and it is definitely a hell of a cardio workout it seems.

31

I have read a few times (forget where) that low intensity cardio is very easily adapted to by our bodies and essentially what happens is that, after a few weeks the body compensates for the calories burned during cardio by lowering the bodies basal metabolic rate. Can anyone who is more knowledgable on the subject chime in on this?

Edit: ‘ready’ changed to ‘read’

Edit 2: i think it was layne norton who I most recently heard talk about it

32

[quote]coolusername wrote:
I have read a few times (forget where) that low intensity cardio is very easily adapted to by our bodies and essentially what happens is that, after a few weeks the body compensates for the calories burned during cardio by lowering the bodies basal metabolic rate. Can anyone who is more knowledgable on the subject chime in on this?

Edit: ‘ready’ changed to ‘read’

Edit 2: i think it was layne norton who I most recently heard talk about it[/quote]

I’m not sure about this. That being said, Layne is an advocate of cardio - particularly HIIT sessions done 2x weekly.

I, personally, (put this in the “things I can’t prove, but believe” category,) feel as though there are different ways and variations to do LISS cardio that are as or more effective than normal LISS types. I think the whole ‘have to stay at 120bpm for SS’ is hogwash.

33

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Just because you can get lean and remain lean with out cardio doesn’t mean you should do some. Way too mnay benefits to cut it out. [/quote]

I’m not sure I agree with this tbh, don’t you get all the same health benefits from intense lifting sessions? I mean if you do 5 sets of 15 reps on squats, haven’t you essentially given yourself all the same benefits as if you did some cardio that day?[/quote]

I would say no. Certianly is hard for sure. But is that the same has elevating your heart rate and breathing hard for 45min? I don’t think so. Personaly I prefer it fasted as that helps magnify the benefits. But I ams sorry I have no time to look up studies. I would put high rep squatting or fast paced lifting in hiit category. Both LISS and hiit have their benefits.

34

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]coolusername wrote:
I have read a few times (forget where) that low intensity cardio is very easily adapted to by our bodies and essentially what happens is that, after a few weeks the body compensates for the calories burned during cardio by lowering the bodies basal metabolic rate. Can anyone who is more knowledgable on the subject chime in on this?

Edit: ‘ready’ changed to ‘read’

Edit 2: i think it was layne norton who I most recently heard talk about it[/quote]

I’m not sure about this. That being said, Layne is an advocate of cardio - particularly HIIT sessions done 2x weekly.

I, personally, (put this in the “things I can’t prove, but believe” category,) feel as though there are different ways and variations to do LISS cardio that are as or more effective than normal LISS types. I think the whole ‘have to stay at 120bpm for SS’ is hogwash. [/quote]

Yes, in the same video he mentioned that he is an advocate of high intensity intervals.

35

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Just because you can get lean and remain lean with out cardio doesn’t mean you should do some. Way too mnay benefits to cut it out. [/quote]

I’m not sure I agree with this tbh, don’t you get all the same health benefits from intense lifting sessions? I mean if you do 5 sets of 15 reps on squats, haven’t you essentially given yourself all the same benefits as if you did some cardio that day?[/quote]

I would say no. Certianly is hard for sure. But is that the same has elevating your heart rate and breathing hard for 45min? I don’t think so. Personaly I prefer it fasted as that helps magnify the benefits. But I ams sorry I have no time to look up studies. I would put high rep squatting or fast paced lifting in hiit category. Both LISS and hiit have their benefits. [/quote]

I’m still on the fence tbh, I feel like my heart is elevated and my breathing is harder during my weight training workouts. You’re probably right though that it’s not as elevated and breathing isn’t as hard as when doing cardio.

I seem to remember seeing a study once that showed that 30 mins of cardio a week had the same cardiovascular benefit as doing a couple of hours. I’ll see if I can find it.

I do definitely see the value in fasted cardio for weight loss though. I think if your metabolism is good then all you need is a half hour walk before breakfast to get the benefit. Getting a dog is a great way to lose weight!

36

[quote]coolusername wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]coolusername wrote:
I have read a few times (forget where) that low intensity cardio is very easily adapted to by our bodies and essentially what happens is that, after a few weeks the body compensates for the calories burned during cardio by lowering the bodies basal metabolic rate. Can anyone who is more knowledgable on the subject chime in on this?

Edit: ‘ready’ changed to ‘read’

Edit 2: i think it was layne norton who I most recently heard talk about it[/quote]

I’m not sure about this. That being said, Layne is an advocate of cardio - particularly HIIT sessions done 2x weekly.

I, personally, (put this in the “things I can’t prove, but believe” category,) feel as though there are different ways and variations to do LISS cardio that are as or more effective than normal LISS types. I think the whole ‘have to stay at 120bpm for SS’ is hogwash. [/quote]

Yes, in the same video he mentioned that he is an advocate of high intensity intervals.[/quote]

It’s the concept of how the body becomes more efficient at repeated tasks. As such, the more aerobic work you do, the less of a caloric cost it puts on your body. That’s why you see so many folks who rely on traditional steady state work having to keep adding more and more to basically get the same effect on their caloric balance each day. Berardi, Norton, Poliquin, and many others have touched on this in their writings. You can get a nice explanation in a CSCS text if you care for the science involved.

A real life example of this that I’ve witnessed first hand (on a few occasions actually) is the ol’ “fat aerobics instructor”. I’m sure we’ve all see the woman who teaches 3-4 classes each day, does her own training, and yet looks nothing like the lean, toned specimen that you might expect. Or even the competitor who is doing hours and hours of steady state each day as their show draws near, adding more each successive week and yet they never really seem to be getting very far ahead.

S

37

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]coolusername wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]coolusername wrote:
I have read a few times (forget where) that low intensity cardio is very easily adapted to by our bodies and essentially what happens is that, after a few weeks the body compensates for the calories burned during cardio by lowering the bodies basal metabolic rate. Can anyone who is more knowledgable on the subject chime in on this?

Edit: ‘ready’ changed to ‘read’

Edit 2: i think it was layne norton who I most recently heard talk about it[/quote]

I’m not sure about this. That being said, Layne is an advocate of cardio - particularly HIIT sessions done 2x weekly.

I, personally, (put this in the “things I can’t prove, but believe” category,) feel as though there are different ways and variations to do LISS cardio that are as or more effective than normal LISS types. I think the whole ‘have to stay at 120bpm for SS’ is hogwash. [/quote]

Yes, in the same video he mentioned that he is an advocate of high intensity intervals.[/quote]

It’s the concept of how the body becomes more efficient at repeated tasks. As such, the more aerobic work you do, the less of a caloric cost it puts on your body. That’s why you see so many folks who rely on traditional steady state work having to keep adding more and more to basically get the same effect on their caloric balance each day. Berardi, Norton, Poliquin, and many others have touched on this in their writings. You can get a nice explanation in a CSCS text if you care for the science involved.

A real life example of this that I’ve witnessed first hand (on a few occasions actually) is the ol’ “fat aerobics instructor”. I’m sure we’ve all see the woman who teaches 3-4 classes each day, does her own training, and yet looks nothing like the lean, toned specimen that you might expect. Or even the competitor who is doing hours and hours of steady state each day as their show draws near, adding more each successive week and yet they never really seem to be getting very far ahead.

S
[/quote]

Doesnt this just merit validity to varying your cardio methods? Example would be often switching your steady state from incline walking, to elipical, to stair master etc?

38

[quote]Mateus wrote:
There are a number of reasons to incorporate cardio and depending on the goal it may, or may not, be necessary.
Firstly, it goes without saying that if one of your goals is overall health then cardio should be implemented to help train your cardiovascular system. **Cardio can be the normal SS stuff on up to lifting routines with very little rest, complexes, EPOC stuff, etc. Anything that elevates heart rate.

If you are wanting to gain with out getting too sloppy and are unable (schedule, family, discipline, just a big pussy) to follow a diet that allows for gains with minimal fat then throwing in a day or 2-3 of cardio will only help. Keeping in mind that cardio, even SS, still requires energy and must be fed.

If you are wanting to gain, you know that you are going to get sloppy and are ok with that (never understand that logic), then when it comes time to diet down the same rules still apply. If you can’t follow a relatively clean diet to slowly bring the weight off then you will need to add the cardio in.

It all comes back to the goal and your will. It can be done with or without cardio, and if your blood work and hormones are in check then there should not be any real issues. zraw prepping without cardio is not some big impressive feat (no disrespect at all) and he will agree with me that most people (with normal levels) can accomplish the same thing but they either lack the discipline or the knowledge.

One thing you may want to ask yourself is this, “Would you rather be hoooge and get winded walking up a flight of 4 stairs, or be hoooge and still out run your 17 yo son who thinks that he can take his old man?” I prefer the latter ;)[/quote]

This is a good post on the topic.

39

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]coolusername wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]coolusername wrote:
I have read a few times (forget where) that low intensity cardio is very easily adapted to by our bodies and essentially what happens is that, after a few weeks the body compensates for the calories burned during cardio by lowering the bodies basal metabolic rate. Can anyone who is more knowledgable on the subject chime in on this?

Edit: ‘ready’ changed to ‘read’

Edit 2: i think it was layne norton who I most recently heard talk about it[/quote]

I’m not sure about this. That being said, Layne is an advocate of cardio - particularly HIIT sessions done 2x weekly.

I, personally, (put this in the “things I can’t prove, but believe” category,) feel as though there are different ways and variations to do LISS cardio that are as or more effective than normal LISS types. I think the whole ‘have to stay at 120bpm for SS’ is hogwash. [/quote]

Yes, in the same video he mentioned that he is an advocate of high intensity intervals.[/quote]

It’s the concept of how the body becomes more efficient at repeated tasks. As such, the more aerobic work you do, the less of a caloric cost it puts on your body. That’s why you see so many folks who rely on traditional steady state work having to keep adding more and more to basically get the same effect on their caloric balance each day. Berardi, Norton, Poliquin, and many others have touched on this in their writings. You can get a nice explanation in a CSCS text if you care for the science involved.

A real life example of this that I’ve witnessed first hand (on a few occasions actually) is the ol’ “fat aerobics instructor”. I’m sure we’ve all see the woman who teaches 3-4 classes each day, does her own training, and yet looks nothing like the lean, toned specimen that you might expect. Or even the competitor who is doing hours and hours of steady state each day as their show draws near, adding more each successive week and yet they never really seem to be getting very far ahead.

S
[/quote]

Doesnt this just merit validity to varying your cardio methods? Example would be often switching your steady state from incline walking, to elipical, to stair master etc? [/quote]

Yes…and vary the pattern of resistance, elevation, & pace during the [treadmill, elliptical, stairmaster] session.

40

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]coolusername wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]coolusername wrote:
I have read a few times (forget where) that low intensity cardio is very easily adapted to by our bodies and essentially what happens is that, after a few weeks the body compensates for the calories burned during cardio by lowering the bodies basal metabolic rate. Can anyone who is more knowledgable on the subject chime in on this?

Edit: ‘ready’ changed to ‘read’

Edit 2: i think it was layne norton who I most recently heard talk about it[/quote]

I’m not sure about this. That being said, Layne is an advocate of cardio - particularly HIIT sessions done 2x weekly.

I, personally, (put this in the “things I can’t prove, but believe” category,) feel as though there are different ways and variations to do LISS cardio that are as or more effective than normal LISS types. I think the whole ‘have to stay at 120bpm for SS’ is hogwash. [/quote]

Yes, in the same video he mentioned that he is an advocate of high intensity intervals.[/quote]

It’s the concept of how the body becomes more efficient at repeated tasks. As such, the more aerobic work you do, the less of a caloric cost it puts on your body. That’s why you see so many folks who rely on traditional steady state work having to keep adding more and more to basically get the same effect on their caloric balance each day. Berardi, Norton, Poliquin, and many others have touched on this in their writings. You can get a nice explanation in a CSCS text if you care for the science involved.

A real life example of this that I’ve witnessed first hand (on a few occasions actually) is the ol’ “fat aerobics instructor”. I’m sure we’ve all see the woman who teaches 3-4 classes each day, does her own training, and yet looks nothing like the lean, toned specimen that you might expect. Or even the competitor who is doing hours and hours of steady state each day as their show draws near, adding more each successive week and yet they never really seem to be getting very far ahead.

S
[/quote]

Doesnt this just merit validity to varying your cardio methods? Example would be often switching your steady state from incline walking, to elipical, to stair master etc? [/quote]

Yes…and vary the pattern of resistance, elevation, & pace during the [treadmill, elliptical, stairmaster] session. [/quote]

This to a degree, but moreso, a matter of exertion levels. That’s the real key in terms of the benefits of interval based cardio approaches.

S