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Carbs PWO for Fat Loss

Hi all,

Beginner here that would greatly appreciate the combined wisdom of you chaps and chap-esses.

I just wondered, having scoured this site for info, what is actually gained for someone like me by that ‘magic’ 2:1 carbs to protein ratio recommended post-workout.

I’ve read all about how it helps refuel the glycogen stores which aids recovery etc but what does this mean in ‘still a bit tubby’ person real-world terms?

My Mon-Wed-Fri weights programme split (with a little HIIT on Tues and Thurs) means that I am usually able to train properly without excess fatigue and so wondered whether I, as a relative beginner trying to master the delicate losing fat while gaining muscle act, really NEED those extra carbs post workout.

Diet-wise I am trying to keep daily carb intake to around 60-80g (inc veggies) a day and I know I’ve been bad if they are over 100g. Protein about 230g. Sometimes a little more. Trying not to overthink it.

As part of the big life change thingy I recently quit my job which, whilst it was very empowering at the time, has left me poorer than Kenny than South Park so at the moment PWO I have just been adding a teaspoon of sugar to my 30g of Whey shake. Do you guys/girls think I really need more in the way of carbs?

If this makes any difference, I am just under 6’4", around 210lbs (down from an intial 280lb a couple of years ago, and from 230 since end of Jan - all blubber loss plus definitely some respectable visible muscle gain), and prob currently still around 20% bf. As the belly loss is pretty much on a par with the muscle-building in terms of immediate goals and priorities, I am eating clean as clean as poss, somewhere around 2000-2200cals a day.

Which leads me to my next question…

Is that too little for someone my height? Even though they’re dieting?

I know it doesn’t sound like much but as I started with zero muscle, I didn’t think I should be overly concerned about losing what LBM I have gained so far in these past 4 months of committed training and finally kicking the cigs and booze.

Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions.

Wow lots of things going on in that one…

[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
Hi all,

Beginner here that would greatly appreciate the combined wisdom of you chaps and chap-esses.

I just wondered, having scoured this site for info, what is actually gained for someone like me by that ‘magic’ 2:1 carbs to protein ratio recommended post-workout.[/quote]

First off the benefit of a fast absorbing protein and simple sugars is adequately explained in the Surge Thread. Basically the quicker absorbing sugars give a quick boost to your insulin, which then promptly shuffles that magic hydro-whey into the muscle where it belongs (really paraphrasing there…). It’s not a complicated process, but a rather straight-forward method of using the body’s capabilities to its fullest at just the right time.

It works just the same in someone overweight as it does in “regular” weight people. You train just as hard don’t you?

Mon-Wed-Fri split? How is it spilt into an odd amount? Not really important, just curious.

You may not feel physically fatigued (you should if you trained hard- train harder damnit!) but your muscles are hopefully fatigued. The carbs you take in directly PWO will almost never be converted and stored as fat. You’re body needs them badly. I am also still in weight loss mode, and have always been since the day I started. I regularly drink Surge after every training, and I’m still losing…

Don’t take Surge after cardio only workouts, unless you run 20 miles or something, fast and uphill…

You can’t possibly be on that restricted of a low carb diet for very long without absolutely killing your metabolism. You should ramp up your carbs on workout days, and drop them on non-workout days. This is key to everything from growth, recovery, metabolism, and about 50 other things. Also- don’t count your veggies when adding up your carbs.

To save cash, chocolate milk is a great alternative for PWO. It contains a great balance of protein/sugar. The sugar is fairly simple, and the protein is decent, albeit slower digesting. Or just eat a meal with a lot of protein and carbs. Same thing really.

First- 210 and 6’-4" is not still “chubby” as you mentioned above. I’m 6’'1" and around 195. And I don’t consider myself chubby, nor anything but average in terms of muscle.

Second- Excellent job on the weight loss. You are officially an FFB, welcome. I recently (~2-3yrs) lost about the same amount as you. I peaked around 275. I can certainly understand you carb concern.

Third- 20% bodyfat? Doubtful at that weight. Go to www.fittogether.net and use their bodyfat calculator. It uses about 12 or so measurements on your body and I’ve found it to be very accurate. Given the weight info I gave above I’m around 14%. You might be surprised what it says.

[quote]As the belly loss is pretty much on a par with the muscle-building in terms of immediate goals and priorities, I am eating clean as clean as poss, somewhere around 2000-2200cals a day.

Which leads me to my next question…

Is that too little for someone my height? Even though they’re dieting?[/quote]

Maybe not for an off day when dieting. I would bump it up on training days a few hundred, and maybe slightly less on cardio only days. Basically a carb-cycling approach (search) but not going into that much detail. Basically if you up your carbs some here and there to account for the work, it should even out about right.

Man you did go through a major change. I agree with you that it’s tough to care about a little LBM loss that you’ve barely had for two minutes while still trying to fight the fat. Keep in mind though that it’s that LBM that you are building that is eventually going to be why you are able to even keep the weight off. You want that metabolically active tissue, you need it.

Not a problem. I have roller-coaster’d (yes that’s a damn verb) my way through the same scenario you’re going through right now and let me tell you- once you get over the hill and get things figured out… It’s a mighty nice view.

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Wow lots of things going on in that one…

1-packlondoner wrote:
Hi all,

Beginner here that would greatly appreciate the combined wisdom of you chaps and chap-esses.

I just wondered, having scoured this site for info, what is actually gained for someone like me by that ‘magic’ 2:1 carbs to protein ratio recommended post-workout.

First off the benefit of a fast absorbing protein and simple sugars is adequately explained in the Surge Thread. Basically the quicker absorbing sugars give a quick boost to your insulin, which then promptly shuffles that magic hydro-whey into the muscle where it belongs (really paraphrasing there…). It’s not a complicated process, but a rather straight-forward method of using the body’s capabilities to its fullest at just the right time.

I’ve read all about how it helps refuel the glycogen stores which aids recovery etc but what does this mean in ‘still a bit tubby’ person real-world terms?

It works just the same in someone overweight as it does in “regular” weight people. You train just as hard don’t you?

My Mon-Wed-Fri weights programme split (with a little HIIT on Tues and Thurs) means that I am usually able to train properly without excess fatigue and so wondered whether I, as a relative beginner trying to master the delicate losing fat while gaining muscle act, really NEED those extra carbs post workout.

Mon-Wed-Fri split? How is it spilt into an odd amount? Not really important, just curious.

You may not feel physically fatigued (you should if you trained hard- train harder damnit!) but your muscles are hopefully fatigued. The carbs you take in directly PWO will almost never be converted and stored as fat. You’re body needs them badly. I am also still in weight loss mode, and have always been since the day I started. I regularly drink Surge after every training, and I’m still losing…

Don’t take Surge after cardio only workouts, unless you run 20 miles or something, fast and uphill…

Diet-wise I am trying to keep daily carb intake to around 60-80g (inc veggies) a day and I know I’ve been bad if they are over 100g. Protein about 230g. Sometimes a little more. Trying not to overthink it.

You can’t possibly be on that restricted of a low carb diet for very long without absolutely killing your metabolism. You should ramp up your carbs on workout days, and drop them on non-workout days. This is key to everything from growth, recovery, metabolism, and about 50 other things. Also- don’t count your veggies when adding up your carbs.

As part of the big life change thingy I recently quit my job which, whilst it was very empowering at the time, has left me poorer than Kenny than South Park so at the moment PWO I have just been adding a teaspoon of sugar to my 30g of Whey shake. Do you guys/girls think I really need more in the way of carbs?

To save cash, chocolate milk is a great alternative for PWO. It contains a great balance of protein/sugar. The sugar is fairly simple, and the protein is decent, albeit slower digesting. Or just eat a meal with a lot of protein and carbs. Same thing really.

If this makes any difference, I am just under 6’4", around 210lbs (down from an intial 280lb a couple of years ago, and from 230 since end of Jan - all blubber loss plus definitely some respectable visible muscle gain), and prob currently still around 20% bf.

First- 210 and 6’-4" is not still “chubby” as you mentioned above. I’m 6’'1" and around 195. And I don’t consider myself chubby, nor anything but average in terms of muscle.

Second- Excellent job on the weight loss. You are officially an FFB, welcome. I recently (~2-3yrs) lost about the same amount as you. I peaked around 275. I can certainly understand you carb concern.

Third- 20% bodyfat? Doubtful at that weight. Go to www.fittogether.net and use their bodyfat calculator. It uses about 12 or so measurements on your body and I’ve found it to be very accurate. Given the weight info I gave above I’m around 14%. You might be surprised what it says.

As the belly loss is pretty much on a par with the muscle-building in terms of immediate goals and priorities, I am eating clean as clean as poss, somewhere around 2000-2200cals a day.

Which leads me to my next question…

Is that too little for someone my height? Even though they’re dieting?

Maybe not for an off day when dieting. I would bump it up on training days a few hundred, and maybe slightly less on cardio only days. Basically a carb-cycling approach (search) but not going into that much detail. Basically if you up your carbs some here and there to account for the work, it should even out about right.

I know it doesn’t sound like much but as I started with zero muscle, I didn’t think I should be overly concerned about losing what LBM I have gained so far in these past 4 months of committed training and finally kicking the cigs and booze.

Man you did go through a major change. I agree with you that it’s tough to care about a little LBM loss that you’ve barely had for two minutes while still trying to fight the fat. Keep in mind though that it’s that LBM that you are building that is eventually going to be why you are able to even keep the weight off. You want that metabolically active tissue, you need it.

Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions.

Not a problem. I have roller-coaster’d (yes that’s a damn verb) my way through the same scenario you’re going through right now and let me tell you- once you get over the hill and get things figured out… It’s a mighty nice view.[/quote]

Hi eengrms76,

Thanks so much for taking the time out to break all that down for me. It’s so easy to assume that fat loss goals are achieved by some radically different method to muscle gain goals. You’ve set me on the right path.

As for the workout split -

Mon - Chest, Bicep, Abs
Bench Press
Incline DB Press
Chin Ups x40 (as many sets as need to do them)
Russian Twists with 10kg plate
Standing BB Curl
Reverse Crunch
Weighted Crunch with 10kg plate

Tues
Am: 10 x 30 sec sprint followed by 90secs walk
PM: 100 Press Ups (as many sets as need to do them)

Wed Back, Tri
Rom Deadlift
Bent Over BB Row
BB Shoulder Press
Bent Over DB lateral raise
DB Lateral Raise
Front DB Raise
1 arm DB Shrug
1 arm DB Side Bends
BB Tricep Extensions
Dips (hands on sofa arm, feet on chair)

Thurs
Am: 10 x 30sec(approx) hill run and jog down followed by 30secs walk

Fri - Legs & Abs plus General
Squat
Leg Extension
Hamstring Curl
Incline BB Bench Press
Triset Incline DB Curl,Hammmer Curl, Zottman Curl
Hanging Knee Raise
Weghted Crunch

Sat - Light Cardio ie 40min light jog if I have time.

Sun - Off, dreaming of cake.

Some days I feel I can do more so for example do 1 arm db rows on back day. I genuinely train as hard as poss with only the limiting factors being a lack of space and lack of tons of weights due to working out at home. Oh, and not being able to throw weights down when reaching failure!

Points taken re LBM vs fat loss, and definitely point taken re PWO carbs. As for the still being chubby thing - well I guess there’s some residual ‘been a fat bloke for ages so hard to stop thinking of myself as one’ syndrome - maybe ‘festively plump’ would work better. My new litmus test will be that when I jump I want all bodyparts to come to a halt when I do. lol

Thanks once again for your help - will checkout the body fat thing and post back.