Carbs Post-Workout?

Supplements and Nutrition
21

[quote]BF Bullpup wrote:
I do notice a big improvement in recovery right after a workout when I take PWO nutrition. I am ignorant enough to only know the science behind it from reading Biotest articles, but if I feel better on PWO than off it, then who am I to argue or analyze?

gi2eg, why do you want to follow our ancestors in their eating habits when most of them didn’t live past the age of 30?[/quote]

Because they were muscular, free of chronic disease, and died mostly from acute trauma and infections.

My argument is not different than yours, I feel better without it, just offering an unpopular opinion and method. OP can try what he wants.

22

As much as I’d like to agree with the caveman analogy (I do prefer to keep things as simple as I can), I don’t know how muscular they were. Sure they didn’t eat processed foods, and all the starchy crap we ingest nowadays, but I think the concept of a muscular he-dude-caveman may have come from comic books -lol

I watched a documentary a long time ago where they looked at the remains of a prehistoric ‘man’, and it was pretty fascinating. 1st, he was barely 5ft tall if that, had all sorts of tooth problems, and I think they were able to discern (dont ask me how) that he walked with a limp. Sooo I dunno about the ‘free from chronic disease’ thought.

Overall, I think we have way too much information available to us today to just pretend it doesn’t exist. Sure, there’s a point where you have too many concepts for your own good, but it’s an individual matter.

S

23

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
As much as I’d like to agree with the caveman analogy (I do prefer to keep things as simple as I can), I don’t know how muscular they were. Sure they didn’t eat processed foods, and all the starchy crap we ingest nowadays, but I think the concept of a muscular he-dude-caveman may have come from comic books -lol

I watched a documentary a long time ago where they looked at the remains of a prehistoric ‘man’, and it was pretty fascinating. 1st, he was barely 5ft tall if that, had all sorts of tooth problems, and I think they were able to discern (dont ask me how) that he walked with a limp. Sooo I dunno about the ‘free from chronic disease’ thought.

Overall, I think we have way too much information available to us today to just pretend it doesn’t exist. Sure, there’s a point where you have too many concepts for your own good, but it’s an individual matter.

S
[/quote]

Physical anthropologists look at tendon insertion points/bone density and can estimate pretty well how much muscle they carried.

This is pretty well assembled; scroll down half a page or so:

If you study a bit of physical anthro/evolutionary biology you will find that most paleolithic humans were actually quite tall/large framed. There’s always going to be variance and individual cases of malnutrition.

And yea Stu, I’m definitely not saying that there is never a benefit (physique-wise) to doing the post workout carb surge, but for me it’s unnecessary.

24

[quote]gi2eg wrote:
BF Bullpup wrote:
I do notice a big improvement in recovery right after a workout when I take PWO nutrition. I am ignorant enough to only know the science behind it from reading Biotest articles, but if I feel better on PWO than off it, then who am I to argue or analyze?

gi2eg, why do you want to follow our ancestors in their eating habits when most of them didn’t live past the age of 30?

Because they were muscular, free of chronic disease, and died mostly from acute trauma and infections.

My argument is not different than yours, I feel better without it, just offering an unpopular opinion and method. OP can try what he wants.[/quote]

Adaptation occurs simply to allow the organism to reproduce as successfully as possible, whether or not you live past 50 is not an issue, as long as you have kids and are able to raise the kids long enough so that they can have kids. The key point here is that our body is a system, like you allude to, built to run a certain way. However, any such system is open to ‘exploits’ to change the way it runs. Workout nutrition is simply an amazing breakthrough in the nutrition field and shuold definitely be taken advantage of.

If you were truly concerned about health, you’d take a pre and post workout shake. Most people herald the post-workout shake by virtue of increased muscle recovery / growth, but there are actual significant health benefits for doing so. A high intensity workout takes a truly large toll on your body. Anti-oxidants run high due to the damage caused to muscle fibers. The immune system is depressed. pre / post-workout shakes, particularly ones fortified with vitamin C / E, have been shown to make significant improvements in immune function and reduce anti-oxidant levels (read: your body will get sick less, suffer lessened effects of anti-oxidant damage, along with the improved recovery aspect). If you are in the business of trying to build muscle, or even just being healthy, it’s simply nonsensical to not take a shake.

I’ll even pubmed an abstract because there’s so much literature on the topic:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17136044&ordinalpos=6&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Here, vitamin C supplementation post workout alone resulted in athletes in the study getting upper respiratory tract infections half as often as athletes taking the placebo.

25

[quote]challer1 wrote:
gi2eg wrote:
BF Bullpup wrote:
I do notice a big improvement in recovery right after a workout when I take PWO nutrition. I am ignorant enough to only know the science behind it from reading Biotest articles, but if I feel better on PWO than off it, then who am I to argue or analyze?

gi2eg, why do you want to follow our ancestors in their eating habits when most of them didn’t live past the age of 30?

Because they were muscular, free of chronic disease, and died mostly from acute trauma and infections.

My argument is not different than yours, I feel better without it, just offering an unpopular opinion and method. OP can try what he wants.

Adaptation occurs simply to allow the organism to reproduce as successfully as possible, whether or not you live past 50 is not an issue, as long as you have kids and are able to raise the kids long enough so that they can have kids. The key point here is that our body is a system, like you allude to, built to run a certain way. However, any such system is open to ‘exploits’ to change the way it runs. Workout nutrition is simply an amazing breakthrough in the nutrition field and shuold definitely be taken advantage of.

If you were truly concerned about health, you’d take a pre and post workout shake. Most people herald the post-workout shake by virtue of increased muscle recovery / growth, but there are actual significant health benefits for doing so. A high intensity workout takes a truly large toll on your body. Anti-oxidants run high due to the damage caused to muscle fibers. The immune system is depressed. pre / post-workout shakes, particularly ones fortified with vitamin C / E, have been shown to make significant improvements in immune function and reduce anti-oxidant levels (read: your body will get sick less, suffer lessened effects of anti-oxidant damage, along with the improved recovery aspect). If you are in the business of trying to build muscle, or even just being healthy, it’s simply nonsensical to not take a shake.

I’ll even pubmed an abstract because there’s so much literature on the topic:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17136044&ordinalpos=6&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Here, vitamin C supplementation post workout alone resulted in athletes in the study getting upper respiratory tract infections half as often as athletes taking the placebo. [/quote]

Thanks for the post, it seems you put thought into it. I do have a few comments/questions, however.

Am I missing part of that study that includes time of ingestion? And it seems we don’t know what these people are eating for their first meal post workout, is this correct?

“the studies were heterogeneous in terms of exercise interventions, selection of athletes, settings and outcomes. The overall methodological quality of most of the trials was poor.”

Also, I honestly have only gotten sick when I eat higher sugar. I also don’t have a problem recovering or building muscle (to the extent that I’ve discussed). It shouldn’t be too hard to find studies on sugar and immune system depression. In fact, what I’ve read seems to suggest an amplification of oxidative stress and inflammation.

By the way, I don’t think you meant to type “anti-oxidants run high” but I think I know what you meant (free radicals?). Clearing that up for other lurkers/posters.

26

Just to reiterate, I am not advocating a low carb diet, nor do I follow one myself. I eat lots of fruits/berries/vegetables (averaging probably at least 100g-120g CHO per day over the course of a week).

Maybe some of the AD guys could chime in on how they’re somehow recovering from their workouts?

27

[quote]gi2eg wrote:
Just to reiterate, I am not advocating a low carb diet, nor do I follow one myself. I eat lots of fruits/berries/vegetables (averaging probably at least 100g-120g CHO per day over the course of a week).

Maybe some of the AD guys could chime in on how they’re somehow recovering from their workouts?[/quote]

I’ve been eating a low carb diet for just over a year now and I blame it for my great results thus far…all its done for me so far is a gain of 35lb lean mass and drop 5% bf…and all in a year!
Been checked up twice in the year and both times all my vitals have come back perfectly normal, bear in mind that I dont eat fruit for 6 days of the week, I eat a maximum of 50g carbs a day (excluding training days when after I train I consume 1g of carb supp per 1lb of bodyweight)!
The only unnatural feeling of any kind I have experienced on this diet was at the beginning when I made the switch, my head was confused I was lethargic but after two weeks I was fine, back to my best and not missing the carbs, and besides the cheat day is a real treat on a diet like this!

I think If you were to try a diet of the kind you would be amazed with just how your body reacts and the results it forces it to produce

28

OP,
I find carbs to be extremely helpful post workout. Even more in the form of a protein shake. Personally I use milk, strawberries, blueberries and protein powder. Or Yogurt, strawberries, banana and protein powder if I worked out for longer than 3 or 4 hours.

I’ve been lifting off and on playing sports for about 15 years and never too big on supplements until 3 months ago.

I find that I can make gains, and live comfortably but slower eating strictly foods from seeds, or parents. However, I can make much larger and consistent gains with a shake before or after or both. Considering the studies, articles and experience I would say post workout is just about the best possible time to eat carbs. You have to remember recovery is the primary reason most people workout. PWO carbs helps jump start the recovery process. The only time I can see maybe lowering the carbs is when your cutting. However this is assuming your doing a lower volume bodybuilding workout vs. high energy athletic, or circuit heavy bodybuilding workout.

29

yeah my fault, I meant oxidants, running a little low on energy right now thanks to finals. But yeah, I can’t believe I forgot, another great health benefit of an insulin spike during workout time is that during a workout, especially an intense workout, cortisol levels spike rapidly. Insulin and cortisol counteract each other, so by spiking insulin, we simply protect the body from the harmful effects of excess cortisol.

30

glucocorticoid presence post exercise could somehow stimulate increased production of anabolic hormones like insulin like growth factor?

Basically, maybe our bodies release anabolic adaptive hormones in response to prolongation (even just an hour vs. 5 minutes) of lowered systemic cortisol levels, and not solely the fact that we pumped some iron or sprinted or whatever.

(Note that I’m not talking about (nor would I recommend) workouts that lasted much longer than 45 minutes.)

31

[quote]Dolce wrote:
read the book “Nutrient Timing”. it’ll answer all your questions and concerns about why you should take a pre and post workout shake. [/quote]

this is a good book… and it only costs like 10 bucks at amazon.