CARBS: Not as Bad as Many Think When it Comes to Fat Loss

[quote]mletten wrote:
The biggest difference I see between Shelby and CT is the timing of the carbs and whether you should take in most of the day’s carbs in the pre or post workout window. I still haven’t quite figured out where I stand on this question and was wondering what people think. It seems to be an important question with regards to fat loss because if the post WO window is fairly worthless in terms of spiking insulin 100 g of carbs after a workout could really inhibit fat loss. I’m leaning towards pre WO because the argument about fueling your workout makes more sense than trying to exploit the post WO window.

At this point I think I am going to transition into a lowish carb diet with 30-50g at breakfast and 75-100g pre-workout with a refeed every 10-12 days. Thoughts? I’m 6’4" and 220-225 (down from 285) and want to stay leanish while adding strength/size.[/quote]

Carbs Pre-WO preserves muscle and spikes insulin which shuttles nutrients to cells.

Carbs Post-WO can blunt the growth hormone response of the workout.

I am carb sensitive but do just fine with a bit of low to med glycemic carbs at breakfast and then right as I hit gym some Surge Recovery and sip that til done with WO. Have some aminos and WH as I finish WO then a solid meal +60 mins of P+F.

[quote]Mutsanah wrote:

[quote]mletten wrote:
The biggest difference I see between Shelby and CT is the timing of the carbs and whether you should take in most of the day’s carbs in the pre or post workout window. I still haven’t quite figured out where I stand on this question and was wondering what people think. It seems to be an important question with regards to fat loss because if the post WO window is fairly worthless in terms of spiking insulin 100 g of carbs after a workout could really inhibit fat loss. I’m leaning towards pre WO because the argument about fueling your workout makes more sense than trying to exploit the post WO window.

At this point I think I am going to transition into a lowish carb diet with 30-50g at breakfast and 75-100g pre-workout with a refeed every 10-12 days. Thoughts? I’m 6’4" and 220-225 (down from 285) and want to stay leanish while adding strength/size.[/quote]

Carbs Pre-WO preserves muscle and spikes insulin which shuttles nutrients to cells.

Carbs Post-WO can blunt the growth hormone response of the workout.

I am carb sensitive but do just fine with a bit of low to med glycemic carbs at breakfast and then right as I hit gym some Surge Recovery and sip that til done with WO. Have some aminos and WH as I finish WO then a solid meal +60 mins of P+F.[/quote]

Any particular reason you use Surge Recovery as opposed to Surge Workout Fuel?

[quote]mletten wrote:

[quote]Mutsanah wrote:

[quote]mletten wrote:
The biggest difference I see between Shelby and CT is the timing of the carbs and whether you should take in most of the day’s carbs in the pre or post workout window. I still haven’t quite figured out where I stand on this question and was wondering what people think. It seems to be an important question with regards to fat loss because if the post WO window is fairly worthless in terms of spiking insulin 100 g of carbs after a workout could really inhibit fat loss. I’m leaning towards pre WO because the argument about fueling your workout makes more sense than trying to exploit the post WO window.

At this point I think I am going to transition into a lowish carb diet with 30-50g at breakfast and 75-100g pre-workout with a refeed every 10-12 days. Thoughts? I’m 6’4" and 220-225 (down from 285) and want to stay leanish while adding strength/size.[/quote]

Carbs Pre-WO preserves muscle and spikes insulin which shuttles nutrients to cells.

Carbs Post-WO can blunt the growth hormone response of the workout.

I am carb sensitive but do just fine with a bit of low to med glycemic carbs at breakfast and then right as I hit gym some Surge Recovery and sip that til done with WO. Have some aminos and WH as I finish WO then a solid meal +60 mins of P+F.[/quote]

Any particular reason you use Surge Recovery as opposed to Surge Workout Fuel?
[/quote]

CT recommends Surge Recovery as an insulin spiking agent for this type of protocol.

Pretty sure its because the carbs in SR come from quicker acting sources like dextrose/maltodextrin where as WOF focuses on more balanced carb sources such as the Rice Oligodextrine, your looking to spike insulin and shuttle nutrients such as amino acids and CHY into the muscles as your working out because during a workout is the only time really when your able to control where insulin delivers the nutrients.

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I think a lot of people go through that ‘scary carbs’ phase thanks to the media and various celebrity’s latest ‘magic’ diets. Making intelligent use of carbs has dramatically altered my perception of body compositional nutrition, and my overall thickness in the last 5-6 months.

S[/quote]
same here

First, I’ll say that I’m completely sold on carbs pre-workout. The amount of muscle I have been able to retain during my current prep is staggering compared to last year’s, where I focused more on post intake. While there is obviously some merit to surrounding your training session (both pre and post) with some of your daily intake, I believe it was something by Dr. Joe Klemzewski that I recently read, where he discusses the body’s willingness to continue burning more bodyfat if carbs are NOT included in a post workout approach. The usual case of his articles is that he was discussing contest prep, where every tiny little % of bodyfat makes a difference, but I’m sure if you’re attempting to add quality size, it wouldn’t be an issue (most reliable sources still cite Carbs + Protein > Either one alone Post workout).

S

is milk carb considered a “quality” carb or should it come more from fruit of grains. some mornings when i’m running short for time by breakfast would consist of a shake with light yogurt which is about 20 grams of carbs. should i opt for a cup of oatmeal instead??

Milk’s carbohydrate source is primarily lactose with trace amounts of monosaccharides and oligosaccharides. Not considered a quality carb source. I love fruit as a carb source in the morning when short on time personally…especially when dieting because it will also replenish liver glycogen helping me stay out of starvation mode. On my off lifting days, I have blueberries oats with my protein powder for that reason. I know this was posed probably more toward CT and Stu, hope you don’t mind my two cents.

Great post.

This was dead-on:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
The body is really bad at doing two opposite things at the same time… so if insulin levels are high you will be in storing mode as opposed to ‘‘mobilizing’’ mode.
[/quote]

Its either “build” or “burn”.

[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
Milk’s carbohydrate source is primarily lactose with trace amounts of monosaccharides and oligosaccharides. Not considered a quality carb source. I love fruit as a carb source in the morning when short on time personally…especially when dieting because it will also replenish liver glycogen helping me stay out of starvation mode. On my off lifting days, I have blueberries oats with my protein powder for that reason. I know this was posed probably more toward CT and Stu, hope you don’t mind my two cents.[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback. dude, your advice is appreciated. for the last 2 years i spent my time on a site where i probably would have been called gay for asking a question like this. where the majority of the members don’t even lift. you’re a level 4, you can say what every the hell you feel.

thanks man

Cool article!

Coach,
What is your opinion on the last meal being carbs+fat?

I have been playing with carbs for some time now and after some reading and finaly this new post by CT I think I came with a nice formula that works best for me to maximize my workouts and burn more fat and still try to keep me filled with carbs to a certain point so i dont have to go trough those rotten depleted phases where you simply can’t funcion nor do your workout properly.

[quote]billy kidd wrote:
Coach,
What is your opinion on the last meal being carbs+fat?[/quote]

IMO (as I’m obviously not Christian), unless you are a serious Ectomorph trying to bulk, chances are you’d be better served with your carbs at more effective times of the day (breakfast, pre workout, post workout, earlier in the day in general…). Of course I would first wonder why you would even want a meal comprised of carbs AND fat, as that’s the combination that makes ‘junk’ food bad for consumption by physique conscious folk.

S

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]billy kidd wrote:
Coach,
What is your opinion on the last meal being carbs+fat?[/quote]

IMO (as I’m obviously not Christian), unless you are a serious Ectomorph trying to bulk, chances are you’d be better served with your carbs at more effective times of the day (breakfast, pre workout, post workout, earlier in the day in general…). Of course I would first wonder why you would even want a meal comprised of carbs AND fat, as that’s the combination that makes ‘junk’ food bad for consumption by physique conscious folk.

S[/quote]

I would agree with this,
The only diet i have ever seen recommend a carbs and fat meal is the “scivation cut diets” where they re-feed every third day with the last meal of the day being a huge carb and fat diet, i guess the idea is a massive insulin spike that then the body has no choice but to store because you will not be able to work it off.

Theoretically maximizing glycogen stores but IMHO all this really does is trash fatloss.

The fat in the carbs and fat meal will lower the insuline spike and slow down the absorbtions of nutrients. My coach always recommended me to eat carbs with fat and never carbs and protein alone(Only around workou) to keep my insulin low. sorry, my english is not good at all.

[quote]Big_Phil wrote:
The fat in the carbs and fat meal will lower the insuline spike and slow down the absorbtions of nutrients. My coach always recommended me to eat carbs with fat and never carbs and protein alone(Only around workou) to keep my insulin low. sorry, my english is not good at all. [/quote]

What is your body fat level?

How do you feel after eating carbs + fat?

[quote]Big_Phil wrote:
The fat in the carbs and fat meal will lower the insuline spike and slow down the absorbtions of nutrients. My coach always recommended me to eat carbs with fat and never carbs and protein alone(Only around workou) to keep my insulin low. sorry, my english is not good at all. [/quote]

Yes this is true, the insulin spike will be smaller due to the effect of fat on the speed of the nutrient absorption.

However, with the presence of alot of fat when the insulin spike occurs (because a spike does occur even though it is diminished) the fat ingested is much more likely to be stored as bodyfat.

The body will use the carbs as energy first, and utilize it to replenish glycogen stores while the fat is most likely stored as body fat.

I think a straight carb up meal is better then a carb/fat meal especially if nutrient selection is from high quality foods such as fruit, starches ect.

A doughnut is all fat and carbs…but i am willing to bet its not as effective at replenishing glycogen with a low insulin response as say a sweet potato and a banana.

Just my 2 cents, take it how you will.

JF

Edit: I would guess his bodyfat varies, his contest pictures in hub are very good though. probably sub 7%

Combining ANY macros will slow the absorption of the nutrients. I believe that’s why Berardi always said to NOT have a carbs only meal. Carbs + Protein will brunt the insulin spike of the carbs, and IMO would be a much better choice than a Carbs + Fat feeding. I will note that with enough of a caloric deficit, you can bend the rules slightly if your metabolism allows… still, I wouldn’t personally risk it -lol.

S

unless your having a low protein day why would you even want to have a just carbs & fat meal?

if your a newb i take that back

It’s a concept I’ve come across recently.

The main reasons for ingesting carbs of low-to-maderate GI/II:

  • carbs require less energy to digest than proteins. Especially at night, we wanna let the GI tract rest
  • also, the energy needed if proteins were digested will probably not come from fats (as it would take too long to get it). IF it is not supplied we may have an energy deficit (->hunger)
  • carbs increase the levels of serotonin (->melatonin-> good sleep and regeneration)
  • when compared to eating carbs in the morning: we have lower insulin sensitivity in the evening (unless someone trains just before bedtime), while in the morning it is higher, and is not limited only to muscles
  • fats are added in a small quantity, just to slow the absorption and GI/II a bit

P.S. I DO NOT defend, or even use this method. I just wanna hear the opinions.