CARBS: Not as Bad as Many Think When it Comes to Fat Loss

I confess: I used to be carbphobic. The first time I was able to get really lean I followed a low-carbs diet and immediately believed that this was the only way to get ripped.

As I gained more experience training various types of clients, I noticed that many actually needed carbs in their diet; if they didn’t they would regress… I trained people who got fatter and less muscular on a low-carbs diet. So that was a first change in my diet belief system… I went from a low-carbs zealot to a lowish carbs guy who understand that some might need a different approach.

As I gained even more experience and read more stuff, I came to realise that carbs in themselves are not that bad for fat loss… well, to be more precise carbs wont make you fat as easily as I once thought.

During my low-carb days I honestly believed that the body would easily turn carbs into fat. Based on my own experience this made sense since carbs were a huge part of my diet when I got fat and were removed from my diet when I got lean.

The thing is that I’m an excessive guy and do have a slight tendency toward bulimia or binging. Not to mention that most of the carb sources I like are very dense in calories. So it might not be the fact that I was ingesting carbs that made me fat, but rather the fact that I was consuming WAY too much calories for my body and activity level.

Even when I realised this, I still believed that carbs could easily be stored as fat. It turns out that this is not the case.

For carbs to be stored as fat you need:

  • To have relatively full muscle glycogen stores
  • To be inactive
  • To be consuming a caloric surplus

If your glycogen stores are empty, you will tend to store more carbs there than as body fat. Obviously you have a limited capacity to store glycogen and since you rarely deplete them completely, you can’t eat a very high amount of carbs daily and expect to get lean. But you still have some room to play with.

And the more active you are, the less carbs you’ll store as body fat. Physical activity depletes glycogen stores, which means that more carbs as stored in the muscles as glycogen, and less will be stored as fat. Physical activity also make the muscles more sensitive to insulin, which also increases the amount of carbs stored in the muscle.

If you are ingesting a caloric deficit, carbs will first be uses for energy instead of being stored as fat.

Ok… so a high carbs diet is fine if your goal is fat loss? Not exactly… see, if carbs are harder than I believed to store as fat, they can still impair fat loss. A high amount of ingested carbs will cause an insulin spike. Insulin is a storage hormone: it tells the body to store nutrients as energy. The body is really bad at doing two opposite things at the same time… so if insulin levels are high you will be in storing mode as opposed to ‘‘mobilizing’’ mode.

In simpler terms, when insulin is high, you wont release as much fat to be used for energy.

When it comes to losing body fat, the key is burning more fat for fuel than you ingest and store. So something that reduces fat burning and fat mobilization OR something that increases fat storage will hurt your fat loss efforts.

Elevated insulin levels halt fat mobilization (the first step in losing fat). If your insulin levels are always elevated during the day, you are basically preventing fat loss during the whole day.

The problem is that insulin can stay elevated up to 2 hours after you are done digesting a high carbs meal. If you are eating 6 meals a day and all of them have a highish amount of carbs, you basically shut down fat loss during the day.

And since you are in storing mode, any fat you consume during that time might very well be stored as fat. Even if that amount of minute, since you are not using a lot of fat for fuel, then you end up storing more than you are burning.

HOWEVER insulin IS anabolic… it helps build muscle. While you CAN build some muscle on a low carbs diet, it is much more difficult than if carbs are ingested.

The key is thus to time your carbs intake properly. I like to have 2 carbs intake per day during a fat loss phase: at breakfast in the form of a small amount of fruits or a FINiBAR, and prior to the workout.

From my experience a training man of 180-200lbs can ingest roughly 100g of carbs pre-workout without fear of gaining fat or halting fat loss. It will actually improve your workouts and help you maintain or even gain muscle mass while dieting down.

The amount ingested at breakfast is more individual and will vary depending on metabolic type and activity level, but 30-50g is a good starting point.

Very interesting, having read your previous views on the matter. I think it’s great that you can change your mind and admit that you have learned, unlike many other coaches. It gives you credibility and shows that you’ve thought it through from many angles. Thank you.

Edited for irrelevance and lack of reading comprehension.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I confess: I used to be carbphobic. The first time I was able to get really lean I followed a low-carbs diet and immediately believed that this was the only way to get ripped.

As I gained more experience training various types of clients, I noticed that many actually needed carbs in their diet; if they didn’t they would regress… I trained people who got fatter and less muscular on a low-carbs diet. So that was a first change in my diet belief system… I went from a low-carbs zealot to a lowish carbs guy who understand that some might need a different approach.

As I gained even more experience and read more stuff, I came to realise that carbs in themselves are not that bad for fat loss… well, to be more precise carbs wont make you fat as easily as I once thought.

During my low-carb days I honestly believed that the body would easily turn carbs into fat. Based on my own experience this made sense since carbs were a huge part of my diet when I got fat and were removed from my diet when I got lean.

The thing is that I’m an excessive guy and do have a slight tendency toward bulimia or binging. Not to mention that most of the carb sources I like are very dense in calories. So it might not be the fact that I was ingesting carbs that made me fat, but rather the fact that I was consuming WAY too much calories for my body and activity level.

Even when I realised this, I still believed that carbs could easily be stored as fat. It turns out that this is not the case.

For carbs to be stored as fat you need:

  • To have relatively full muscle glycogen stores
  • To be inactive
  • To be consuming a caloric surplus

If your glycogen stores are empty, you will tend to store more carbs there than as body fat. Obviously you have a limited capacity to store glycogen and since you rarely deplete them completely, you can’t eat a very high amount of carbs daily and expect to get lean. But you still have some room to play with.

And the more active you are, the less carbs you’ll store as body fat. Physical activity depletes glycogen stores, which means that more carbs as stored in the muscles as glycogen, and less will be stored as fat. Physical activity also make the muscles more sensitive to insulin, which also increases the amount of carbs stored in the muscle.

If you are ingesting a caloric deficit, carbs will first be uses for energy instead of being stored as fat.

Ok… so a high carbs diet is fine if your goal is fat loss? Not exactly… see, if carbs are harder than I believed to store as fat, they can still impair fat loss. A high amount of ingested carbs will cause an insulin spike. Insulin is a storage hormone: it tells the body to store nutrients as energy. The body is really bad at doing two opposite things at the same time… so if insulin levels are high you will be in storing mode as opposed to ‘‘mobilizing’’ mode.

In simpler terms, when insulin is high, you wont release as much fat to be used for energy.

When it comes to losing body fat, the key is burning more fat for fuel than you ingest and store. So something that reduces fat burning and fat mobilization OR something that increases fat storage will hurt your fat loss efforts.

Elevated insulin levels halt fat mobilization (the first step in losing fat). If your insulin levels are always elevated during the day, you are basically preventing fat loss during the whole day.

The problem is that insulin can stay elevated up to 2 hours after you are done digesting a high carbs meal. If you are eating 6 meals a day and all of them have a highish amount of carbs, you basically shut down fat loss during the day.

And since you are in storing mode, any fat you consume during that time might very well be stored as fat. Even if that amount of minute, since you are not using a lot of fat for fuel, then you end up storing more than you are burning.

HOWEVER insulin IS anabolic… it helps build muscle. While you CAN build some muscle on a low carbs diet, it is much more difficult than if carbs are ingested.

The key is thus to time your carbs intake properly. I like to have 2 carbs intake per day during a fat loss phase: at breakfast in the form of a small amount of fruits or a FINiBAR, and prior to the workout.

From my experience a training man of 180-200lbs can ingest roughly 100g of carbs pre-workout without fear of gaining fat or halting fat loss. It will actually improve your workouts and help you maintain or even gain muscle mass while dieting down.

The amount ingested at breakfast is more individual and will vary depending on metabolic type and activity level, but 30-50g is a good starting point.[/quote]

Interesting, when dieting I’ve followed Poliquin’s rotating meat and nut breakfast. I will definitely try dropping the nuts and adding in some low fructose fruit and see how it effects my fat loss. What is your opinion on the effectiveness of a rotating meat and nut breakfast? Do you use it with your clients?

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I confess: I used to be carbphobic. The first time I was able to get really lean I followed a low-carbs diet and immediately believed that this was the only way to get ripped.

As I gained more experience training various types of clients, I noticed that many actually needed carbs in their diet; if they didn’t they would regress… I trained people who got fatter and less muscular on a low-carbs diet. So that was a first change in my diet belief system… I went from a low-carbs zealot to a lowish carbs guy who understand that some might need a different approach.

As I gained even more experience and read more stuff, I came to realise that carbs in themselves are not that bad for fat loss… well, to be more precise carbs wont make you fat as easily as I once thought.

During my low-carb days I honestly believed that the body would easily turn carbs into fat. Based on my own experience this made sense since carbs were a huge part of my diet when I got fat and were removed from my diet when I got lean.

The thing is that I’m an excessive guy and do have a slight tendency toward bulimia or binging. Not to mention that most of the carb sources I like are very dense in calories. So it might not be the fact that I was ingesting carbs that made me fat, but rather the fact that I was consuming WAY too much calories for my body and activity level.

Even when I realised this, I still believed that carbs could easily be stored as fat. It turns out that this is not the case.

For carbs to be stored as fat you need:

  • To have relatively full muscle glycogen stores
  • To be inactive
  • To be consuming a caloric surplus

If your glycogen stores are empty, you will tend to store more carbs there than as body fat. Obviously you have a limited capacity to store glycogen and since you rarely deplete them completely, you can’t eat a very high amount of carbs daily and expect to get lean. But you still have some room to play with.

And the more active you are, the less carbs you’ll store as body fat. Physical activity depletes glycogen stores, which means that more carbs as stored in the muscles as glycogen, and less will be stored as fat. Physical activity also make the muscles more sensitive to insulin, which also increases the amount of carbs stored in the muscle.

If you are ingesting a caloric deficit, carbs will first be uses for energy instead of being stored as fat.

Ok… so a high carbs diet is fine if your goal is fat loss? Not exactly… see, if carbs are harder than I believed to store as fat, they can still impair fat loss. A high amount of ingested carbs will cause an insulin spike. Insulin is a storage hormone: it tells the body to store nutrients as energy. The body is really bad at doing two opposite things at the same time… so if insulin levels are high you will be in storing mode as opposed to ‘‘mobilizing’’ mode.

In simpler terms, when insulin is high, you wont release as much fat to be used for energy.

When it comes to losing body fat, the key is burning more fat for fuel than you ingest and store. So something that reduces fat burning and fat mobilization OR something that increases fat storage will hurt your fat loss efforts.

Elevated insulin levels halt fat mobilization (the first step in losing fat). If your insulin levels are always elevated during the day, you are basically preventing fat loss during the whole day.

The problem is that insulin can stay elevated up to 2 hours after you are done digesting a high carbs meal. If you are eating 6 meals a day and all of them have a highish amount of carbs, you basically shut down fat loss during the day.

And since you are in storing mode, any fat you consume during that time might very well be stored as fat. Even if that amount of minute, since you are not using a lot of fat for fuel, then you end up storing more than you are burning.

HOWEVER insulin IS anabolic… it helps build muscle. While you CAN build some muscle on a low carbs diet, it is much more difficult than if carbs are ingested.

The key is thus to time your carbs intake properly. I like to have 2 carbs intake per day during a fat loss phase: at breakfast in the form of a small amount of fruits or a FINiBAR, and prior to the workout.

From my experience a training man of 180-200lbs can ingest roughly 100g of carbs pre-workout without fear of gaining fat or halting fat loss. It will actually improve your workouts and help you maintain or even gain muscle mass while dieting down.

The amount ingested at breakfast is more individual and will vary depending on metabolic type and activity level, but 30-50g is a good starting point.[/quote]

Interesting, when dieting I’ve followed Poliquin’s rotating meat and nut breakfast. I will definitely try dropping the nuts and adding in some low fructose fruit and see how it effects my fat loss. What is your opinion on the effectiveness of a rotating meat and nut breakfast? Do you use it with your clients?
[/quote]

Not hijacking - just commenting regarding the meat/nuts breakfast Poliquin espouses - I love it, works great for me in terms of energy. I also have tried what he recommends, subbing fruit for the nuts, not because I am allergic but for variety.

(From his site)

What about if you are allergic to nuts?

I then recommend you a portion of the following low glycemic/low fructose fruits with your breakfast:

apricot
avocado
blackberries
blueberries
grapefruit
loganberries
nectarines
olives
papaya
peach
plum
raspberries
strawberries

Make sure that the fruits are organic, especially the strawberries, as they are one of the most sprayed crops in the World.

After breakfast, I recommend to use a teaspoon to a tablespoon of quality fish oil to mitigate even more the insulin response. That will insure top level concentration till your next meal.

I think a lot of people go through that ‘scary carbs’ phase thanks to the media and various celebrity’s latest ‘magic’ diets. Making intelligent use of carbs has dramatically altered my perception of body compositional nutrition, and my overall thickness in the last 5-6 months.

S

I just started doing your get jacked fast program (only using the first 2 weeks) and have been following the diet except I have 1 finibar, 2 scoops MAG-10 and 2-3 scoops anaconda peri-workout. If I lift 60-90 mins after waking and this is the first thing I consume (so it’s basically my breakfast on workout days) should this be my only meal with carbs? Also could I bump it up to 2 finibars before lifting or should I stick with just 1 while in a fat loss phase?

Thanks

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I like to have 2 carbs intake per day during a fat loss phase: at breakfast in the form of a small amount of fruits or a FINiBAR, and prior to the workout[/quote]
So, if you did train after 2 meals (and if your goal was to lose fat), you wouldn’t ingest any fruits or starch Post-W.O.

Hypothetically speaking, if you did have sugar cravings Post-W.O., what would that mean?

[quote]tolismann wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I like to have 2 carbs intake per day during a fat loss phase: at breakfast in the form of a small amount of fruits or a FINiBAR, and prior to the workout[/quote]
So, if you did train after 2 meals (and if your goal was to lose fat), you wouldn’t ingest any fruits or starch Post-W.O.

Hypothetically speaking, if you did have sugar cravings Post-W.O., what would that mean?[/quote]

No you wouldn’t.

If you get cravings it can either be a psychological or habitual thing or a slight hypoglycemia. In the later case it might mean using a bit more carb pre and during workout.

CT-
How do you suppose consuming 5g of l-leucine spread out evenly 4 times a day could impact fat loss while in a deficit. I am doing this now while leaning out in an attempt to have some insurance over muscle loss. It is my understanding that leucine sparks muscle synthesis and also elevates insulin levels, but will this also slow down my fat loss? Just curious on your opinion.

[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
CT-
How do you suppose consuming 5g of l-leucine spread out evenly 4 times a day could impact fat loss while in a deficit. I am doing this now while leaning out in an attempt to have some insurance over muscle loss. It is my understanding that leucine sparks muscle synthesis and also elevates insulin levels, but while this also slow down my fat loss? Just curious on your opinion.[/quote]

At 5g it wont be a problem. From experience it takes A LOT more leucine to have a detrimental effect on fat loss due to an elevation in insulin. 20-30g of leucine is the minimum to get an insulin response that is “too high” outside of the workout period.

Is takin, say 50 g of carbs before 4 workouts preferable to 200 g a week in a single meal or is this nitpicking?

The body is a complex organism and every person partitions nutrients differently. For most non athletes and average T Nation reader, low - medium carbs are generally most beneficial. Anybody who pushes the envelope in training such as MMA guys or tri-atheletes definately NEED the carbs. This of course is what makes insulagenic proteins such as CH very interesting to those who want to take advantage of insulin’s benefits, but are in some way shape or form unable to effectively metabolize larger amounts of carbs.

CT, as a thought would it work to mix some slower and some faster acting carbs along with an anabolic load to gain a fair amount of size and strength even dealing with not having full protocols?

For example if looking to put on mass and strength with little to no fat gain what would be your opinion on the following peri-workout protocol?

-45 mins ~35g fruit carbs (from say apples, bananas ect…)
-20 mins 10g dextrose carbs + Anabolic load such as Chy,Luecine,Creatine compound (ANACONDA)
0-30 mins (during first half of workout) 10g dextrose carbs + Anabolic load such as Chy,Luecine,Creatine compound (ANACONDA)
+30 whey/micleular casein shake (Grow!)
+90 Solid food meal p+f

Any suggestions/changes you would make for a 185lb male trainee?

Hi Coach,

Are these your recommendation for every athlete, even one who is highly insulin resistant and handles low carbs well?

Also, your comments on raising insulin pre-workout and it’s effects on cortisol?

I know that if I personally have any “fast carbs” I will practically fall asleep.

Thanks,
GJ

Hello Thibs:

I’m losing fat right now and I’m doing it faster than ever. I haven’t even worried about carb intake, I do it insctinctively and has worked so well. Maybe when my fat loss stalls I’ll add some cardio, only low first and then some HIIT, or I was thinking on adding 1 HIIT and 2 low sessions right from the start. I’ll be also cycling stimulants during the process; caffeine thermogenic first and then transition to ephedra, ephedra consumption will have different patterns though. So, summarizing, the steps that have worked for me are:

a) The 2 carb meals is the ideal, but it works for me at the beginning with only not cheating on the last meal of the day and make it a pulse.

b) Add cardio only when needed, and increase it very gradually.

c) Cycle stimulants; 2 week on 2 week off protocol. It’s the first time I do this, I have to accept that earlier I have abused stimulants, and maybe I didn’t have the results I could’ve.

d) Do things gradually; increments in variables that interact in fat loss should be delivered gradually over the time frame you spend losing it. That should make fat loss as constant as possible, preventing stalling periods.

[quote]Amonero wrote:
Is takin, say 50 g of carbs before 4 workouts preferable to 200 g a week in a single meal or is this nitpicking?[/quote]

And the gorilla profile picture fits your question tone perfectly-lol

Coach, right now I am leaning down on a cyclic ketogenic diet, but I have been taking 1 scoop of SWF with 10 g of casein hydrolysate + 5 g of leucine (sipping throughout the workout). My question is, by doing this would I be shooting myself in the foot when it comes to weight loss via an insulin spike from the SWF, or should I bump up the number of carbs I consume and change the time I consume them peri workout? Thank you very much!

Thanks Coach. This is a really timely article for me. I dropped 70 lbs over the past year on a low carb diet and want to reintroduce carbs to help fuel my weightlifting sessions and to help add some muscle without putting back on all that fat.

Is there any advantage for me in sticking to moderate carbs (50 g at breakfast and 100 g preworkout) everyday with occasional refeeds as opposed to carb cycling with low, medium, and high days? Thanks.

I came across the following article on Elite FTS and thought it would be appropriate for this thread.

articles.elitefts.com/interviews/low-carb-diet-qa-with-shelby-starnes/

The biggest difference I see between Shelby and CT is the timing of the carbs and whether you should take in most of the day’s carbs in the pre or post workout window. I still haven’t quite figured out where I stand on this question and was wondering what people think. It seems to be an important question with regards to fat loss because if the post WO window is fairly worthless in terms of spiking insulin 100 g of carbs after a workout could really inhibit fat loss. I’m leaning towards pre WO because the argument about fueling your workout makes more sense than trying to exploit the post WO window.

At this point I think I am going to transition into a lowish carb diet with 30-50g at breakfast and 75-100g pre-workout with a refeed every 10-12 days. Thoughts? I’m 6’4" and 220-225 (down from 285) and want to stay leanish while adding strength/size.