T Nation

Carbs + Fat


So your not supose to eat carbs and fats together because they hold onto each other and are hard to break down right?

Does this make a peanut butter sandwhich not good if your cutting weight because bread=carbs and peanutbutter = fats?


are carbs and fats not good if there high in it like say beer+ice cream?

who made all these rules anyways


Dr. John Berardi did and in MY opinion...it's kinda complete bullsh!t

What he SHOULD have said is avoid PROCESSED foods that are high in fat and carbs because they are HIGH GI and bad fats.

Now a natural peanut butter on whole wheat sandwhich is a great meal. Just make sure to have some sort of protein on the side (like a bowl of cottage cheese for example)

Also, I actually advise you to NOT split macros up because when Carbs and Protein are eaten together, despite their Gi or whatever, a large amount of insulin is released due to the lack of fat to slow down the insulin release.

So yeah, hope that helps


it depends on the person, but yeah, if you are seriously trying to get lean, a peanut butter sandwhich is probably not the best idea. Lots of fat and carbs, not much protein.

That being said, it all depends on the person. I know guys that eat a high fat, extremely high carb, low protein diet without working out at all and they are lean and fairly jacked. If you arent one of those genetic freaks, foods like peanut butter sandwiches arent going to get you super lean.


I don't think its complete bullshit and several others don't as well. Carb + Fat is the number 1 fat storage promoting combination. The fat causes even more of an insulin release than the carbs alone. This is also the combination you will find in the most fattening foods like chips, fries, cookies, baked goods, donuts, pies, pizza, etc.

A peanut butter sandwich is actually probably not the best, save the peanut butter for your protein shake.

Also, have you ever heard of the anabolic diet, and the thousands of other low carb plans that split up carbs and fats and keep the carbs isolated to postworkout, mornings, etc. only?

It works.


Most of you are forgetting the fiber factor. A PB sandwhich on whole wheat has enough fiber to lower the GI to the point of being workable for leaning out. Fiber is, IMO, the holy grail of dieting. It keeps you full and lowers the GI of whatever you mix it with. Psyllium is a great supp.


Of course it "works" but saying that carbs + fat promotes fat gain is bull!

You're saying if I eat a sweet potato with 10 grams fish oil for like half of my meals a day, them being my carb and fat sources and say for my other meals I eat a cup of spinach (basically zero carbs so doesn't really count) and like 8oz chicken, that I am gonna get "Fat"?

No...like I said. The Dr SHOULD have said AVOID PROCESSED foods that are high in both fat and carbs, like I originally said.

Also, fat does not raise the insulin levels of a meal. Saturated fats do, mono unsaturated and polyunsaturated fats do NOT raise insulin levels and have been shown to slow the release of glucose throughout the blood.

There for, do not cancel out fats from carbs and protein, what I actually suggest is keep fat under 10g the first 3-4 meals a day and then keep carbs under 15 for the last meals

Now this isn't completely separating them but it is SOMEWHAT, but it isn't swearing off fats from carbs and vice versa.

For instance...last example
1 Cup Oats, 4 egg whites and 2 whole eggs = fat gain? Well in the case of separating fats and carbs you DO have 16g of fat in that meal...but they are from HEALTHY sources and everything is A OK. That meal is a muscle-builder if anything...not a adipose tissue creator.


I'm meaning this in the nicest way possible, you(friedrice82) should not be giving diet advice to anyone.

PC and PF meals works for me for gaining size with minimal fat gains, I don't freaking stress out about it though. Most people need to worry about the big stones(protein intake, eating often enough) before they worry about the sand(PC PF meals, GI etc)


Double post sorry, but come on beer and ice cream?


You're kidding right? What you "suggested" is pretty much exactly what Berardi says word for word: don't mix "large" amounts of fats with "large" amounts of carbs.

This is quoted from Massive Eating reloaded part 1:

"In other words, I suggested eating a few meals that contain protein and carbohydrate (P+C) and a few meals that contain protein and fat (P+F). Now, while I never suggested entirely eliminating fat from P+C meals and carbs from P+F meals, I noted that this plan is designed to minimize the occasions you combine lots of C and lots of F in the same meal. "

First you say its total complete bullshit then you turn around and say the exact same thing. Did you even read the articles?

Second of all "eating a yam with 10 grams of fish oil? That is a "best possible situation" which he said is ok. Again, since you are hard headed we are talking about avoiding large amounts of carbs and large amounts of fats.

For the most part I think this is spot on. Especially if you are carb sensitive like the majority of people are.

Eating carbs and fat might also be an excellent situation for someone who needs to increase calories in general, especially someone extremely ectomorphic. (like you)

Also, like the above poster said you're really not in the position to be handing out dietary advice and ripping on the professionals here. At 5'11" 138 lbs (unless you are female) instead of calling Berardi's stuff bullshit, (which is pretty stupid in itself) I suggest you read more and digest his articles especially "Massive Eating."

Berardi is one of the best in the biz because he gets results. So whatever you think you know at 5'11" 138 you are only making yourself look stupid trying to correct him.



Let me re-iterate myself and actually correct myself.

I do not literally mean the whole idea is bullsh!t, I was just kind of annoyed because I see this topic pop up time and time again across MULTIPLE sites.

I also do know that I really should not be giving advice and was and still am very hesitant in saying stuff regarding nutrition. I try to make sure I do not give advice or post anything because it is quite hypocritical which I realize.

I have read the articles, 3x to be exact, and every other article published on this site.

What has been posted in following articles about macro separation is to separate carbs and fat so that there is no more than 5g fat in PC meal and no more than 10g carbs in PF meal (forget which article listed this vague number to go by, but it is in here somewhere)

Anyways, like I was saying with my examples, they will not get you fat. Now separating them to avoid large doses of both is what I too believe in, but then again, if you eat healthy, it's kind of hard to mix these macros to the point of which we are talking about.

Again, another "extreme" example is a cup of oatmeal and 1/4 cup walnuts...Again, almost 23g of fat, 16g protein, 60g carbs. For breakfast? It's a fine meal. You have omega 3's, omega 6's slow carbs and protein (although extremely low).

What I was trying to say is you shouldn't try to separate the two macros to which they have been limited to (the 5g and 10g suggestions posted in later articles, possibly Metabolism Repair Plan article discussion, I think?)

In my opinion keep fat below 13-15g in PC meal (meaning don't add a fat source like olive oil) and keep carbs below 15-20 (meaning again don't add in a starch).

That's what I truly meant and should have explained myself more thoroughly.


To make sure I don't get anybody wrong - I think Dr. Berardi is the greatest mind to come into nutrition, so don't take this as me bashing his methods for meals and what not because I am not suggesting you ignore his methods.

Thanks and sorry.


I have in all my life never seen a bread labeled "whole wheat" that has more than 2g of fiber per 2 slices. 2g of fiber won't even get the GI below 90. Fiber is indeed the "holy grail" of leaning but breads are not the place to find it. Spinach on the other hand is a great place. So is the apple and broccoli etc.



Ahhhh... you did say it was "bullshit" right?



or rather "complete bullshit."



so i shouldnt worry about a peanut butter sandwhich but i should worry about something processed and high in fats+carbs?
or on the save side should i just avoid eating the two together.


To get back on topic and answer your question, alot of it depends on you and your individual bodtype and how you respond to certain foods/metabolism.

If you are extremely ectomorphic/fast metabolism, it probably doesn't matter. It's probably good you are eating calorie dense food in the first place. If you are more endomorphic, you probably would be better suited splitting them up.

It's funny each author writes from their own perspective/POV and usually preaches what works for them.

Berardi started out very thin (ecto) so he needs the higher calories a la massive eating. Personally, that is way to many calories for me. Thib seemed more endomorphic (like me) so he needs to pay attention more to his carbs and watch the calories to lean out and avoid fat gain.

Figure out how you respond and then you can tailor it accordingly. That is the best advice I can give you.


At no point in any of your posts have you given us the reason for question. I mean what are you trying to accomplish? Are you cutting? bulking? an FFB? skinny? what?? It all really matters for such a specific question about peanut butter sandwiches. As most have said for some they are fine, others need to avoid them.

Which one are you?


Wow, canada must have a poor supply of whole grain bread... We have plenty of bread here that is 4-6g range of fiber PER SLICE.


i was just wondering because im pre thinking a cutting diet for wrestling season and dont want to make many mistakes as i plan to cut some heavy weight in not to much time.


Even the cheap "whole grain" bread still has 2-3 grams of fiber per slice.


who cares how much fiber is in bread.