T Nation

Carbolin 19 Question


#1

I've read pages and pages of Carbolin 19 threads and still can't come up with an answer to this question:

"What exactly does Carbolin 19 do to the body that makes it anabolic?"

I understand why I take Surge. It's easy to understand the science behind it.

I haven't seen an easy to understand explanation of what makes Carbolin 19 an anabolic agent (other than the slight increase in T-levels which aren't its main attraction)

So...without getting jumped on about how "Dude, you didn't see this on page 24 of the product page?" I was hoping someone could explain it to me.

Thanks in advance,

-DT


#2

Hi DT,

The anabolic/anti-catabolic effect is directly related to the increase in cAMP accumulation in skeletal muscle.

This increase in cAMP may alter myogenic differentiation as well as inhibit proteolysis. Though, there are likely many other mechanisms which contribute which have yet to be elucidated.

There's really still a great deal yet to be discovered, but that goes for just about any compound. We still haven't identified every mechanism through which aspirin works! More and more is being discovered as time progresses.

Anyhow, I was surprised that pharmaceutical companies hadn't been exploring this area as much....but as soon as said that, the pharmaceutical division of a consumer product GIANT is already seeing promising results in preclinical studies with a selective PDE inhibitor.

Hope that helps.


#3

You see David, What Cy is trying to tell you is, is until people like you and I get this stuff flowing through our veins, and then workout, and during the weeks after starting supplementation, log on to T-Nation and post your results and or give an impression of what is happening to your physique, will there be enough information gathered to make a scientific judgement of the effects of Carbolin 19. It seemed as though people started out pretty well, by posting while using Carbolin 19, but the posts eventually slowed down to what is now only an occasional post of someone using the product. I myself want to try the product, but like you really would like just alittle more input from those who already have, before proceeding.

SLERG


#4

Hey Cy,

Would it be allowable, for the sake of simplicity, to simply say that it's a 'nutrient partitioner'? ie; it helps send nutrients to where you want them (muscle cells) and not to where you don't want them (fat cells).

It's hard to explain this supp to 'outsiders'!


#5

Hi Soldierslim,

Yes, though not totally "right on" that would probably be the simplest and easiest thing to say.


#6

Cool.

As always, thanks Cy.


#7

yeah i don't understand all this forskolin and band cAMP stuff. Esp how in the original HOT-ROX article it says that Sclaremax is better at band cAMPing then forskolin. i bought 3 bottles anyway. :wink:


#8

What would you recommend for fat loss? HOT-ROX or Carbolin 19? I am currently 6' 224 @ 15% bodyfat.


#9

I'd go with HOT-ROX.

Hope that helps.


#10

in a very basic sense, when your cells are deprived of an energy source there is high concentration of cAMP, basically ATP is dephosphorylated(twice or in one run as pyrophosphate and it's energy is used to do work), and then AMP is cyclized by an enzyme into cAMP, which functions as a hormone in some cases. it signals "need more ATP!!!!!!!!!"

Your body would very logically deliver nutrients to cells with this condition, which is the skeletal muscle in this case. High levels of cAMP in muscle cells might also stimulate anabolism through similar pathways that training does when it utilizes ATP, however this is something i have not too much knowledge in.

I am just a 3rd year biophysical chemist and will learn complex metabolic pathways next year.


#11

Since Carbolin 19 works by increasing cAMP, would caffeine and aspirin prolong the effects like in a ECA stack?


#12

actually my guess is that this would not be a good idea based upon the aforementioned.

if colforsin increase cAMP in skeletal muscle only, and colforsin does this by activating adenylate cyclase(only in muscle cells if this is true) that triggers the cell to become exceptionally active at glycolysis.

However Caffeine as i remember is not specific in which cells adenylate cyclase it activates, so if this was the case, this would somewhat offset colforsin's nutrient partitioning effects.

Keep in mind this is all just speculation, and could be completely wrong should caffeine be selective, or if colforsin is indeed not selective.

We could use someone who has more experience with colforsin and metabolism.


#13

so when would it be best taken.
i know what it says on teh bottle.

but would pre work out and post workout be a good option?

or just post workout?
or just pre wrok out?


#14

Consumer, from what I understand (which is probably less than you, since you have formal schooling in this), caffeine inhibits the enzyme that converts cAMP to AMP prolonging the effects of substances that increase cAMP. I don't know how specific it is. This is a probably a question for Cy since he has more knowledge about the substance, although if I had to guess I'd say it doesn't help seeing as they probably would have explored that option.


#15

yes but actually this is a positive feedback loop.

caffeine and colforsin both activate adenylate cyclase, which basically means that the first enzyme that catalyzes cAMP to AMP, is inhibited, but this is further passed on down the signalling chain to activate adenylate cyclase, which further increases the concentration of cAMP but catalyzing the reaction ATP>cAMP.

essentially positive feedback.


#16

should Carbolin 19 be taken 7 days per week. or should you not take it on non workout days.
im training 6 days per week at the moment?????

MOD NOTE: From the recommended use section in the Biotest store
[i]"Recommended Use: As a dietary supplement, take one or two capsules in the morning and one or two capsules six hours later. If you haven’t used this supplement previously, begin by taking one capsule twice per day for three days prior to increasing the dose. Do not exceed four capsules in any 24-hour period. FOR BEST RESULTS, USE CONTINUOUSLY FOR A MINIMUM OF ONE MONTH.

WARNING: Consult your physician before using this or any dietary supplement. Do not take if you are pregnant or breast feeding, elderly or under the age of 18, chronically ill, or taking any prescription or over-the-counter medicine, including but not limited to antidepressants (such as MAO inhibitors), stimulants, allergy medications, and medications for high blood pressure or other cardiovascular conditions. Discontinue use if you experience dizziness, headache, nausea, or heart palpitations. If you have trouble sleeping, do not take within 6 hours of bedtime. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.[/i]


#17

what would be better,
taking Carbolin 19 for 2 months
or
taking Carbolin 19 for 1 month and then taking Methoxy-7 for 1 month?


#18

Id say #1


#19

I used one bottle for one month during my last TBT program. Who knows what impact it had. I was spending six days a week in the gym and eating several hundred calories above maintenance. The program CW had me one was pretty intense. That being said, my nutrition was great, my training was great and I had some great results.


#20

thanks guys