T Nation

Carbine or Shotgun?

Hey guys… I need some good input on a good weapon frame for my wife. I was thinking about going with the Sub2000 or Hi-point, but after reading many posts concerning either of these, I’ve decided against the Hi-point. She is a small framed Asian woman who can’t quite handle most of the calibers I have except for my little .22 revolver.

But that’s not going to help her or me in a situation of need. So… I was thinking of a 9mm or .40 cal carbine for some kind of punch without the recoil of the pistol. I believe in having a nice sized shotgun or Glock for home protection is good, but she can’t handle my shotguns. I’m going to try her out on my little .410 soon, but even that won’t do a lot of damage especially since it’s a single shot bolt action shotgun.

I’m open to ideas on something light weight with low recoil that a petite Asian woman can feel comfortable with? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

If she can’t shoot it, she is better off without it.

.410 is a start or a carbine in 9mm. I had a Sub2000 in .40 and with the plastic stock it hurt a bit to shoot. The bolt carriers in the Sub2000s are HEAVY and there is more recoil than you would expect. I’ve never shot one in 9mm, but I expect the recoil to be a bit less but still harsh. If you can even find one, look into one of the rubber shoulder pads for it.

Honestly, I’d pick an AR in 223/5.56 over the Sub2k if recoil is an issue.

The relevant quote in these situations is “owning a gun doesn’t make you armed just like owning a guitar doesn’t make you a musician” or something like that. Picking a weapon is the first step, but getting competent enough to use it in a self defense situation is another matter entirely.

divining HolyMac Get a Carbine 9mm with a laser, tell her if someone is breaking into the house, get onto the floor on the opposite of side the bed from the door and aim the laser at the door. When stranger danger comes through the door fire until magazine is empty.

[quote]theuofh wrote:

Honestly, I’d pick an AR in 223/5.56 over the Sub2k if recoil is an issue.
[/quote]

So would I, especially considering that the AR-15 was quite literally designed with small-framed Asians in mind.

The AR15 is the way to go, AK47 if you can get a deal on one, even a knock off is great. Shotguns have too much kick for smaller-framed people. Anything with a laser sight is a great idea/ deterrent, even a laser pointer can scare off an intruder.

Isnt the AK47 a bit much for home defense?

[quote]GICowboy33 wrote:
Hey guys… I need some good input on a good weapon frame for my wife. I was thinking about going with the Sub2000 or Hi-point, but after reading many posts concerning either of these, I’ve decided against the Hi-point. She is a small framed Asian woman who can’t quite handle most of the calibers I have except for my little .22 revolver.

But that’s not going to help her or me in a situation of need. So… I was thinking of a 9mm or .40 cal carbine for some kind of punch without the recoil of the pistol. I believe in having a nice sized shotgun or Glock for home protection is good, but she can’t handle my shotguns. I’m going to try her out on my little .410 soon, but even that won’t do a lot of damage especially since it’s a single shot bolt action shotgun.

I’m open to ideas on something light weight with low recoil that a petite Asian woman can feel comfortable with? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.[/quote]

What shotguns do you have?

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]theuofh wrote:

Honestly, I’d pick an AR in 223/5.56 over the Sub2k if recoil is an issue.
[/quote]

So would I, especially considering that the AR-15 was quite literally designed with small-framed Asians in mind.[/quote]

HA!

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
Anything with a laser sight is a great idea/ deterrent, even a laser pointer can scare off an intruder. [/quote]

This is a brilliant idea.

I am keeping a laser pointer next to my bed from now on. And I’m going to urge all of my liberal anti-gun pussy friends to do the same.

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
Anything with a laser sight is a great idea/ deterrent, even a laser pointer can scare off an intruder. [/quote]

This is a brilliant idea.

I am keeping a laser pointer next to my bed from now on. And I’m going to urge all of my liberal anti-gun pussy friends to do the same.[/quote]

Actually heard from an Army buddy of mine about conventional guys using red laser pointers in Iraq. The specific story was that a unit was dealing with a small group of irate Iraqis who wouldn’t go away, but they weren’t doing anything worthy of a bullet. One of the infantry guys slid up behind another, pointed his laser pointer at the chest of the main agitator and waited. One of the other Iraqis noticed the dot on his chest, pointed it out, and they calmed down very quickly. Don’t know if it’s true or not (I wasn’t there), but sounds possible. They’ve seen the same Hollywood garbage we have where every sniper/SWAT/specops guy has a visible red laser on his gun.

I wouldn’t just point a red pointer at an intruder though, and expect a good outcome.

a big dog would do more than a laser pointer

[quote]Aggv wrote:
Isnt the AK47 a bit much for home defense? [/quote]

No, an auto shot gun with slug is too much for home defense

[quote]GICowboy33 wrote:
I believe in having a nice sized shotgun or Glock for home protection is good, but she can’t handle my shotguns. [/quote]

FWIW, my son has been shooting my G-17 / 19 since he was 7. He can consistently knock down 8" steel targets at 25 yards with them both. My wife has her own G-19. The grip “issue” most folks claim is a training issue.

FWIW for home defense you will be hard presses to beat a shotgun. Consider getting a 20 gauge Youth model. With the variety of ammo out there one can feed that thing all day long for training and then load in some low recoil buck for the home defense. A 20 g shotty has relatively low recoil and is still roughly TWICE as powerful than the .44 magnum handgun.

The youth models when shouldered will stick out as far as a Glock held at arms length so the exposure is the same really and is really a moot point because if one is stupid and tries to clear their house, it is a mistake, unless you are WELL TRAINED, in which 99% of people arent. But that’s another thread. watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrxkjRXk7m8

[quote]GICowboy33 wrote:
Hey guys… I need some good input on a good weapon frame for my wife. I was thinking about going with the Sub2000 or Hi-point, but after reading many posts concerning either of these, I’ve decided against the Hi-point. She is a small framed Asian woman who can’t quite handle most of the calibers I have except for my little .22 revolver.

But that’s not going to help her or me in a situation of need. So… I was thinking of a 9mm or .40 cal carbine for some kind of punch without the recoil of the pistol. I believe in having a nice sized shotgun or Glock for home protection is good, but she can’t handle my shotguns. I’m going to try her out on my little .410 soon, but even that won’t do a lot of damage especially since it’s a single shot bolt action shotgun.

I’m open to ideas on something light weight with low recoil that a petite Asian woman can feel comfortable with? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.[/quote]

what do you consider a lot of damage? have you ever shot anything up close and personal with a .410 slug or shot shell? most intruders will be within 6-15 ft when you pull the trigger. even a .410 with #6 shot will still be almost a solid mass at 15’.
are you in an apartment or have close neighbors? do you know where you kids are at? if they are behind the target reposition yourself. an AK 47 sounds so macho but you will put holes in the wall and send lead down the street. remember the heavier the recoil the longer it takes to get back on target and that you are libel for a flyer.
also consider are you or her ready to kill someone? “He who hesitates is lost” is true. you will always remember the first person you kill and much more vividly if its up close and personal.
most ranges will rent various guns for her to try. almost all the ranges around here have ladies night with certified instructors so check out your area. they don’t get frustrated and scream and yell at the women when they aren’t perfect shots.

the Mossberg 500 Persuader/Cruiser is a reasonably priced nice full stock or pistol grip 2 3/4-3" pump in .410 and 20ga with 18.5" barrel 6rds.

Rossi makes several lever action .410 and .410/45LC with 18.5-20" barrel

a semi-auto will be a lot more $

you could always get a .357 mag for you and load it with .38 special for her. look at the Winchester 110g Silvertip JHP, Remington 110g SJHP, and the Cor-Bon/Glaser pre frags.
if you have a 9mm here is a vid of the Cor-Bon/Glaser Silver. if you really want to see what a round will do I always tell people to buy some pork and shoot it. hogs are very similar to humans in density. in fact the vid uses pork as well as ballistic gel.

Lots of good perspectives here on home defense. The right answer is, of course, very personal and many important considerations have already been touched upon. Proximity to neighbors and loved ones, individual ability and defensive plans/tactics should all factor in to one’s decision.

One perspective that has not been discussed is the virtues of the handgun for home defense. This falls outside the scope of the OPs question of carbine v shotgun, but I think it warrants some consideration. Here are a few advantages of a firearm that can be operated with one hand…

  1. A flashlight in the off hand can illuminate a target without the risk of pointing a loaded weapon at it, as one must do with a rail light on a carbine or shotgun. This may prove useful if Cousin Eddie occasionally lets himself in at 3 am after a few drinks.

  2. Phone calls can be made while keeping a firearm on target.

  3. If one limb is disabled, the firearm can still be operated with the other.

  4. Handguns are easier to both retain and operate in a close quarters struggle.

Again, this is outside the scope of OPs question, but I figured I would throw it out there. I would recommend a heavy steel-framed 9mm for a petite shooter. Heavy is good in a handgun if you are not carrying it. That said, many very petite women can shoot lightweight polymer handguns very well. Guns preferences are quite personal.

Best of luck to you, OP.

Shotgun for sure, you do not want her having a carbine or 45 caliber for home defense. If there are kids in the home they could be hit by stray fire which will travel through walls.

[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
The youth models when shouldered will stick out as far as a Glock held at arms length so the exposure is the same really and is really a moot point because if one is stupid and tries to clear their house, it is a mistake, unless you are WELL TRAINED, in which 99% of people arent. But that’s another thread. watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrxkjRXk7m8
[/quote]

I generally agree and wouldn’t go trying to clear my house IF I knew someone was actually trying to break in or had broken in. But if I just hear a strange noise in the middle of the night I’m grabbing my .45 and my flashlight and going to check it out. I live in an old house so there’s lots of noises.

I like the recommendation for a 20 gauge, and am considering getting one for myself. I’d put a slug barrel on for hunting season, and rock it for home defense the rest of the year.

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20 gauge double.

If my the way my Asian mates drive is any indication I’d be keeping your mrs well away from anything with bullets…