T Nation

Carb Timing and Fat Burning


#1

A quote by anonym from Chobbs Big and Lean thread.

I would like to get his (or anyone else's) thoughts on why he feels this theory is "derpity derp". Anonym's posts are always good reads and I thought the discussion about this topic could continue here.

Anonym? Care to elaborate?


#2

Its mostly about calories in vs calories out. Fatloss can be achieved with a moderate carb approach.


#3

[quote]elusive wrote:
Its mostly about calories in vs calories out. Fatloss can be achieved with a moderate carb approach.[/quote]

I’d agree, but this is more about a nuance of fat loss theory than a general starting point, which would be in/out.

His quote came about during a discussion of fat being used as the fuel source during sleep and then not eating carbs in the morning to stretch the fat burning window by another few hours.

Anonym said it was mostly “derpity derp”. I wanted to know what, specifically, about that theory makes him say that.


#4

Your body uses all sorts of fuel, at all times. Just because you consume carbs, doesn’t mean your body stops using fats for fuel. Insulin doesn’t stop lipolysis across the entire body. It works more on a cell by cell basis. Beta-Oxidation should be occuring redardless of the macronutrient consumed.


#5

Ive just tried intermittent fasting for 3 weeks now, having my last meal at 830pm, and not eating again until 1pm the next day.

Im still undecided if I am going to continue this protocol, although Im leaning on returning back to normal eating. Pros is that IF can be convenient and the big feasts are fun, cons are that occasionally I feel weak and hungry by 11am and that sometimes the meals are so large that you cant do anything for 40 minutes but lie on the couch and rub your belly.

I think this approach would work well for those who dont do cardio and only weight train 3-4 times a week.

tweet


#6

Personally I am sceptical about whether or not avoiding carbs for certain periods will lead to greater fat mobilisation/burning however, there are a lot of people who strongly believe in things like carb cut offs to minimise fat gain. Would be interesting to hear from people who have tested these methods themselves…


#7

Personally, I feel that way too many people have been “brainwashed” into being carbphobic. Carbs will be stored as glycogen if you’re an active, weight lifting individual. Then they will be burned off for energy the body needs… then they will be stored as fat. Having a rational, portioned serving of carbs is perfectly fine.


#8

So you would say there is no merit to strategies like cutting off carbs at 6pm and doing fasted cardio in the morning, or having a carb free breakfast to help burn a little extra fat through the day?


#9

Insulin most certainly affects fat burning and release of fat. Some general physiology needs to be read and its very easy to see the main enzymes for fat release and burning are turned off from insulin and not even a lot of insulin. It’s not a stretch to see how limiting insulin release to an important time of the day, the workout.

And the rest of day keeping it low either by going low carb or no food whichever. Can you lose fat ignoring this sure. But maybe you can eat more and lose more fat by not ignoring this. Food for thought


#10

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Insulin most certainly affects fat burning and release of fat. Some general physiology needs to be read and its very easy to see the main enzymes for fat release and burning are turned off from insulin and not even a lot of insulin. It’s not a stretch to see how limiting insulin release to an important time of the day, the workout. And the rest of day keeping it low either by going low carb or no food whichever. Can you lose fat ignoring this sure. But maybe you can eat more and lose more fat by not ignoring this. Food for thought [/quote]

Insulin does not not shut down lipolysis bodywide… it works on a cell by cell basis. Having carbs does NOT prevent every cell in the body from releasing fat for beta oxidation.


#11

[quote]elusive wrote:
Personally, I feel that way too many people have been “brainwashed” into being carbphobic. Carbs will be stored as glycogen if you’re an active, weight lifting individual. Then they will be burned off for energy the body needs… then they will be stored as fat. Having a rational, portioned serving of carbs is perfectly fine.[/quote]

Agreed.

Leaning out is the surefire “cure” for this phobia (via greatly improved carbs tolerance).

But, keeping insulin low/timing carbs intake is an effective way to get there in the first place.


#12

[quote]elusive wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Insulin most certainly affects fat burning and release of fat. Some general physiology needs to be read and its very easy to see the main enzymes for fat release and burning are turned off from insulin and not even a lot of insulin. It’s not a stretch to see how limiting insulin release to an important time of the day, the workout. And the rest of day keeping it low either by going low carb or no food whichever. Can you lose fat ignoring this sure. But maybe you can eat more and lose more fat by not ignoring this. Food for thought [/quote]

Insulin does not not shut down lipolysis bodywide… it works on a cell by cell basis. Having carbs does NOT prevent every cell in the body from releasing fat for beta oxidation.[/quote]

Show some proof plz


#13

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]elusive wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Insulin most certainly affects fat burning and release of fat. Some general physiology needs to be read and its very easy to see the main enzymes for fat release and burning are turned off from insulin and not even a lot of insulin. It’s not a stretch to see how limiting insulin release to an important time of the day, the workout. And the rest of day keeping it low either by going low carb or no food whichever. Can you lose fat ignoring this sure. But maybe you can eat more and lose more fat by not ignoring this. Food for thought [/quote]

Insulin does not not shut down lipolysis bodywide… it works on a cell by cell basis. Having carbs does NOT prevent every cell in the body from releasing fat for beta oxidation.[/quote]

I can ask you for the same. lol

Insulin binds to cells, it doesn’t pull a switch and shut your body down. You even admit, that you can lose fat eating this way, how so then? If lipolyis was completely prevented? Hey, all I’m saying is, I believe people have become way too carb phobic, I’m not advocating massive carb diets and claiming it doesn’t matter. Insulin is also protein sparring, preventing the breakdown of amino acids for gluconeogenisis. Having our glycogen stores full also helps this from happening. Carbs also allow us to train harder and help keep hormones like leptin in check. At a given point in a diet, as calories get lower and lower, there will be a time where carbs become very low, but IMO it shouldn’t be right off the bat.
Show some proof plz [/quote]


#14

So, elusive, going off your comments about cell by cell instead of body-wide, would you agree or disagree that by postponing even a cell by cell shut-down for a longer period of time would lead to greater/faster fat loss?

Do you not agree with any kind of carb timing to manipulate/utilize different hormones at certain times?


#15

If insulin is released into the blood, surely it is going to travel throughout the body and affect alot of cells. Timing carb intake doesn’t have anything to do with being carb phobic, it is simply a strategy to help you achieve your goals, and there are too many highly accomplished people who use varying forms of carb timing/manipulation to write it off as being carb phobic.


#16

[quote]cueball wrote:
So, elusive, going off your comments about cell by cell instead of body-wide, would you agree or disagree that by postponing even a cell by cell shut-down for a longer period of time would lead to greater/faster fat loss?

Do you not agree with any kind of carb timing to manipulate/utilize different hormones at certain times?[/quote]

Yes, less cells blunted by insulin, equals more beta oxidation. However, I don’t feel nutrition is as black and white as that. We (our cells) are constantly burning and storing fat throughout the day, second by second. Our calories first, then our macronutrient choices helps decide if we store or burn more through out the day.

Now, going back to your question. Yes, it will help you burn more fat, but it will also help you burn more aminos for gluconeogenesis, which is why I said its not black and white. Each method has its beneifits and downfalls, IMO.

I know nutrient timing is a popular method, there are tons of bodybuilders who get in great shape without worrying about this popular “fad” (for lack of a better word)way of eating. If your gonna consume 100grams of CHO throughout the day, where you put them IMO, won’t matter all too much in the big picture. The times your not consuming them will be equivalent in the end.

I usually say, try it all out, do what feels best for yourself, just don’t believe someone on a forum because they read the latest article. Experiment with your eating habits and figure it out.


#17

[quote]elusive wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:
So, elusive, going off your comments about cell by cell instead of body-wide, would you agree or disagree that by postponing even a cell by cell shut-down for a longer period of time would lead to greater/faster fat loss?

Do you not agree with any kind of carb timing to manipulate/utilize different hormones at certain times?[/quote]

Yes, less cells blunted by insulin, equals more beta oxidation. However, I don’t feel nutrition is as black and white as that. We (our cells) are constantly burning and storing fat throughout the day, second by second. Our calories first, then our macronutrient choices helps decide if we store or burn more through out the day.

Now, going back to your question. Yes, it will help you burn more fat, but it will also help you burn more aminos for gluconeogenesis, which is why I said its not black and white. Each method has its beneifits and downfalls, IMO.

I know nutrient timing is a popular method, there are tons of bodybuilders who get in great shape without worrying about this popular “fad” (for lack of a better word)way of eating. If your gonna consume 100grams of CHO throughout the day, where you put them IMO, won’t matter all too much in the big picture. The times your not consuming them will be equivalent in the end.

I usually say, try it all out, do what feels best for yourself, just don’t believe someone on a forum because they read the latest article. Experiment with your eating habits and figure it out.[/quote]

Thanks for your input. Appreciated.


#18

[quote]whattt wrote:
If insulin is released into the blood, surely it is going to travel throughout the body and affect alot of cells. Timing carb intake doesn’t have anything to do with being carb phobic, it is simply a strategy to help you achieve your goals, and there are too many highly accomplished people who use varying forms of carb timing/manipulation to write it off as being carb phobic.[/quote]

No one here has equated ‘strategic timing of carbs intake’ with “carbophobia” so its unclear why you’re arguing against that.

And to be honest, the average sedentary public would do better with some degree of “carbophobia” to restrict their intake.

Where “carbophobia” can become counter-productive is in those who regularly train/deplete glycogen stores. And in those whose dieting strictly employs a low-carbs approach. And in those who do both.


#19

Elusive, mind posting in my ‘Ultimate Diet’ thread in Bigger Stronger Leaner? Because I recall you did that…and then afterwards did your own style, with the 3000g refeed one time I think haha

Would appreciate some of your insight into both dealing with the low days, and optimising the refeed days. Cheers man


#20

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]whattt wrote:
If insulin is released into the blood, surely it is going to travel throughout the body and affect alot of cells. Timing carb intake doesn’t have anything to do with being carb phobic, it is simply a strategy to help you achieve your goals, and there are too many highly accomplished people who use varying forms of carb timing/manipulation to write it off as being carb phobic.[/quote]

No one here has equated ‘strategic timing of carbs intake’ with “carbophobia” so its unclear why you’re arguing against that.

And to be honest, the average sedentary public would do better with some degree of “carbophobia” to restrict their intake.

Where “carbophobia” can become counter-productive is in those who regularly train/deplete glycogen stores. And in those whose dieting strictly employs a low-carbs approach. And in those who do both.
[/quote]

I eat all my carbs in 3-5 hrs. It’s 500-1000g. Am I carbaphobic?