T Nation

Carb Sources and Body Composition

After watching the “Proffessor X, What do you eat thread?” blow up, I’m really hoping that we can get a good discussion going on and not a repeat of that disaster that took place.

My question is simple?

Do carb sources matter?

Obviously Im not talking about flour, or straight table sugar.

But do carb sources matter meaning… if the goal is bodybuilding does it matter if I eat fruits, potatoes, oatmeal, or rice provided that all calories are equal?

I ask because I’ve never seen a fucking bodybuilder eat fruits and their my favorite carb source. I rather eat dates, mangos, bananas, and pine apples by the pound then fucking eat a tablespoon of oatmeal.

So discuss. Has anyone used this approach and actually gotten big. Is their something magical in oats, rice, and potatoes that makes bodybuilders love them so much? Or is it just because of convenience?

Please keep in mind. I am not talking about health, or longevity but strictly body composition. Meaning that the goal is getting jacked not living longer, or healthier.

Yes, They absolutely matter.

[quote]jb99 wrote:
Yes, They absolutely matter. [/quote]

Enlighten me, please.

[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:

[quote]jb99 wrote:
Yes, They absolutely matter. [/quote]

Enlighten me, please. [/quote]

Enlighten yourself, use the search function.

Think of carbs as fuel, does it matter what fuel you put in your car, it’s all going to get used the same way isn’t it? Sure you use can regular or low quality grades, but over time they clog your engine and wear certain parts down. Higher quality fuels do the opposite, as they not only power, but can help maintain and extend the life of your engine.

Food is exactly the same. Less processed carb sources are going to be more healthy overall and will contain vitamins and nutrients that lower quality sources don’t. You can get by using low quality sources, but there are significant advantages and benefits associated with utilizing higher quality ones such as fruits, vegetables, quinoa, wild rice, and steel cut oats.

Well it’s obvious that its more beneficial to have slow-digesting complex carbs as opposed to simple, fast-digesting carbs. This is a VERY basic overview as I am too damn tired today from training to go too in depth haha. Fast digesting carbs raise blood sugar levels quickly, which signals your body to stop burning fat (assuming u are trying to diet) and forces it to start using the excess sugar for energy (also can make u start storing fat). Meanwhile, slow-digesting carbs will keep blood sugar levels normal/stable and so on. I try to stay away from fast-digesting carbs because they will break down into glucose quickly and stimulate insulin very fast into the bloodstream. Dieting is so much more than calories in and calories out, don’t underestimate how complex the human body is.

I think fruits (fruit juice particularly) would be “ok” pre- or post workout for that spike. You need insulin to grow and replenish.

I have switched over to only starch carbs. My only exception is when i need to make my own workout shakes with dextrose in them. I feel much better on the starches, and the “slower” ones might I add.

[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:
I ask because I’ve never seen a fucking bodybuilder eat fruits and their my favorite carb source. I rather eat dates, mangos, bananas, and pine apples by the pound then fucking eat a tablespoon of oatmeal.[/quote]
CT eats fruit and often seems to recommend fruit rather than grains.

Fruits are not processed to death the way most grains are (let’s avoid the pesticide talk ok?), and the skin will slow the digestion considerably, thus blunting the dreaded insulin spike that makes some people terrified of eating them. Of course, depending on your sensitivity, as well as to what degree you’re focusing your training (general health vs contest conditioning), including fruit in your daily diet can be a yes or no (nutrient timing is also an issue, as Earthquake pointed out).

S

This is a common sense/ moderation thing and im amazed it keeps coming up

Obviously potato chips are a worse carb source than broccoli but no one should be suggesting you use all or nothing of either.

Make decent choices with food that fit within your financial means, goals, and “how bad you want it”/ effort levels and you will get the results somewhat equal to what you’ve put in.

It really is that simple

Here is some words from Thib:

"Nutrients partitioning refers to how you use the nutrients you ingest. They can be burn for fuel, for heat, stored in the muscles, in the liver, in the fat cells, etc.

How you use those nutrients depend on the hormone levels in your body, on the digestion and absorption process, etc.

Nutrients partitioning is one of the main reason why different foods will have different effects even at equal caloric or nutrients value."

IFBB bodybuilder Phil Hernon has his clients use fruits and vegetables exclusively for their carbs and he’s got plenty of big and lean guys in his stable. Many ways to get it done.

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:

[quote]jb99 wrote:
Yes, They absolutely matter. [/quote]

Enlighten me, please. [/quote]

Enlighten yourself, use the search function.

Think of carbs as fuel, does it matter what fuel you put in your car, it’s all going to get used the same way isn’t it? Sure you use can regular or low quality grades, but over time they clog your engine and wear certain parts down. Higher quality fuels do the opposite, as they not only power, but can help maintain and extend the life of your engine.

Food is exactly the same. Less processed carb sources are going to be more healthy overall and will contain vitamins and nutrients that lower quality sources don’t. You can get by using low quality sources, but there are significant advantages and benefits associated with utilizing higher quality ones such as fruits, vegetables, quinoa, wild rice, and steel cut oats.[/quote]

Please re-read my original post. Then proceed to shoot your self for trying to be an internet tough guy.

[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:

I ask because I’ve never seen a fucking bodybuilder eat fruits and their my favorite carb source.

[/quote]

This is simply unbelievable. You’ve really never seen a bodybuilder eat fruit? Who the fuck do you hang out with? lol[/quote]

Lmao obviously I have. I meant it as in like you never hear Jay Cutler or Branch Warren say “well i had 12 eggs and a bunch of fruits for breakfast” rather they always seem to eat oatmeal, rice, and potatoes. My question is… does it make a difference provided all calories are equal whether you eat potatoes, rice, or pine apples with your steak?

Quick points:

  1. This is why I quit responding in that other thread…because people often see what they want. My freshmen year in college, I was eating up to or more than 3 bananas a day from the cafeteria along with a ton of orange juice and milk for the calories.

  2. The way I eat to drop weight is not the way I eat all of the time. I made this perfectly clear before but somehow no matter what I type…yes, hamburger.

  3. All fast acting carbs are not the devil. Those insulin spikes are what I used to build most of the initial base of size that I did those first few years. Insulin is not your enemy. You just need to know how to use it. That is where buying a college level bio/anatomy book comes in.

  4. if you have honestly never seen a bodybuilder eat fruit, then you don;t know any bodybuilders and are likely doing like others were doing in that other thread…taking bits and pieces, running with it and creating whole ideologies off of half baked assumptions.

Most guys may drop fruit when cutting down. Bodybuilders do not always eat the same between off season and on season…unless they are Jay Cutler.

[quote]Scott M wrote:
IFBB bodybuilder Phil Hernon has his clients use fruits and vegetables exclusively for their carbs and he’s got plenty of big and lean guys in his stable. Many ways to get it done. [/quote]

Even in the off season??

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Quick points:

  1. This is why I quit responding in that other thread…because people often see what they want. My freshmen year in college, I was eating up to or more than 3 bananas a day from the cafeteria along with a ton of orange juice and milk for the calories.

  2. The way I eat to drop weight is not the way I eat all of the time. I made this perfectly clear before but somehow no matter what I type…yes, hamburger.

  3. All fast acting carbs are not the devil. Those insulin spikes are what I used to build most of the initial base of size that I did those first few years. Insulin is not your enemy. You just need to know how to use it. That is where buying a college level bio/anatomy book comes in.

  4. if you have honestly never seen a bodybuilder eat fruit, then you don;t know any bodybuilders and are likely doing like others were doing in that other thread…taking bits and pieces, running with it and creating whole ideologies off of half baked assumptions.

Most guys may drop fruit when cutting down. Bodybuilders do not always eat the same between off season and on season…unless they are Jay Cutler.[/quote]

I was just curious as to why more bodybuilders dont rely on fruit sources as carbs in the off season since they are easier on the taste buds and easier to to consume. Eating a 100g of carbs from fruit is much easier then getting it from oatmeal (well at least it is to me).

So basically Ill provide the hypotheical scnenarios that I hate so much.

If bodybuilder A and B are the exact same person and A uses mostly rice, and potatoes for his carb sources in the off season and B uses mostly fruits. Would it make a difference?

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
Here is some words from Thib:

"Nutrients partitioning refers to how you use the nutrients you ingest. They can be burn for fuel, for heat, stored in the muscles, in the liver, in the fat cells, etc.

How you use those nutrients depend on the hormone levels in your body, on the digestion and absorption process, etc.

Nutrients partitioning is one of the main reason why different foods will have different effects even at equal caloric or nutrients value."
[/quote]

Brain shuts down…proceeds to eat two packs of oreos lol… kidding… does he say anything specifically about carb sources. If he does, please post in the thread.

[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:

[quote]Scott M wrote:
IFBB bodybuilder Phil Hernon has his clients use fruits and vegetables exclusively for their carbs and he’s got plenty of big and lean guys in his stable. Many ways to get it done. [/quote]

Even in the off season?? [/quote]

Yes. Most of what I see from his clients is a “zone” type diet meal plan at least to start.

Lean meats (chicken, fish)
Fruits and vegetables(if you want)
Healthy oils (olive, maca etc)

40/50/17 P/F/C every single meal is a typical starting point. Yes post workout, yes pre bed, yes 2PM on Thursdays, every meal.

I don’t eat that way, I primarily use rice and potatoes for my carbs but this ALL OR NOTHING!!! mindset bodybuilders take is comical. You can use all fruits, you can use none, you can use some… I think that’s one of the least important things in the end in terms of results.

Only you will know how YOU respond to carbs, fat, protein etc. People just don’t seem to understand how different everyone is and how one guy may be able to eat mcdonalds and stay lean while some other guy may have to eat super strict. You will have to learn that on your own. But maybe instead of asking “why do all bodybuilders eat oatmeal and rice” you should think “hmmm since all/most bodybuilders eat oatmeal/rice then maybe they know what they are doing”…

[quote]Scott M wrote:

[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:

[quote]Scott M wrote:
IFBB bodybuilder Phil Hernon has his clients use fruits and vegetables exclusively for their carbs and he’s got plenty of big and lean guys in his stable. Many ways to get it done. [/quote]

Even in the off season?? [/quote]

Yes. Most of what I see from his clients is a “zone” type diet meal plan at least to start.

Lean meats (chicken, fish)
Fruits and vegetables(if you want)
Healthy oils (olive, maca etc)

40/50/17 P/F/C every single meal is a typical starting point. Yes post workout, yes pre bed, yes 2PM on Thursdays, every meal.

I don’t eat that way, I primarily use rice and potatoes for my carbs but this ALL OR NOTHING!!! mindset bodybuilders take is comical. You can use all fruits, you can use none, you can use some… I think that’s one of the least important things in the end in terms of results. [/quote]

Great stuff, thanks for the input man.