T Nation

Carb Source Doesn't Matter for Body Comp


What does matter is the # of grams you do ingest

There, I said it


Lets see if I can copy/paste this thing...


Finally wanted to post some details of what the Guinea Pig experiment is and how it is going. It is very simple, really, and most of you know that when others preach on the boards about what works and what doesn't, I PROVE what works and what doesn't and I don't believe anyone until I see it for myself. I have debunked many concepts that people seem to think are either tried and true or written in stone over the last 10 years.

The latest? I took on 15 people to see whether the carb source matters or not. This has NOTHING to do with health, this is entirely about whether you can lose body fat, gain muscle (or maintain muscle) and improve your condition. We are monitoring strength gains, bodyweight, hunger, etc.. Pretty much all of the things you would monitor on any other diet.

I honestly wasn't sure and had no real preconceived notions going in. I did think it was very possible that the carb sources didn't matter but .... just wanted to see first hand.

The results SO FAR (after 2 months)?? Every single person of the 15 that are committed and consistent are losing body fat and gaining strength without hunger being any more of an issue than with clean carb sources. Of the 15 I have 3 or 4 that aren't 100% consistent for different reasons but the others that are, the results are blatantly clear: It doesn't matter what the carb source is.

The guidelines for carbs sources for this diet are simple, as well: They cannot be clean carb sources - they HAVE to be refined carbs with low fat just as you would use for a Skipload. You can even use full-flavor SODA. That means these guys are eating pancakes, cereal, low-fat cookies, you name it. They are essentially using the same carb sources that they are Skiploading with on the weekends. And, yes, they are STILL SKIPLOADING.

The experiment isn't done yet as we still have about another month or so but I don't anticipate the results changing, all of a sudden, after being successful for the first 2 months.

What does this prove? Not much for health because I have no idea whether this would be a good idea for your health or what impact it would have on your blood panel. What it clearly shows to ME is that even contest prep may be changing for my clients very soon. Oh, and if you hear someone argue that I am nuts or this can't work, just know they don't have a fucking clue. They are simply regurgitating what they have HEARD from others. I know it will work because I am seeing it first hand.


Hahaha. I am envisioning the debate this will spark, the articles that could be presented on both sides, and the horror that lays before us.

To start it off, I disagree.

Elaborating, IME, CHO sources affect my physique differently. Sure, scale weight tends to increase or decrease more based on g of CHO, however body composition varies quite a bit based upon source.

Research on HFCS, sucrose, dextrose, maltodextrin, starches, etc. Show not only different physiological responses, but also long term body composition changes based upon the CHO source used. Granted, these variations can be more or less drastic depending on the species used (mice, for instance, respond drastically different to fructose and HFCS as opposed to glucose etc.), but seem to occur often enough for me to claim that there are differences suggested by many studies on the subject.

Thanks, zraw, as this should be interesting to watch.


I posted before I saw your third post. I applaud you for approaching this subject. Are you actually running it as an experiment, with subjective reporting, weights, measurements, controls, ect.?

I will be interested to hear more as it develops.


Sorry I will clarifiy for some reason my last post didnt go thru

I am not the one doing this experiment

Ken "Skip" Hill is


Ken "Skip" Hall is running the experiment and it's been having some good success it would appear.


Im surprised so few people seem to care

I'll make it so more people care..

Hey guys, wether you decide to have 30g of carbs from brown rice or from 355ml of sprite doesnt change shit as far as body composition is concerned



You've got my attention. I'll be following.


I read this from Skip a while ago - interesting stuff, if only anecdotal.


IIFYM - eat that shit!! ; )


I'm Stronghold and I approve this message.


I read this over on the other forum too and thought it was interesting. As far as practical purposes, if this is true, I think it would really help people stick to their diets. Of course, I would want to keep the 'healthier' foods as my main carb sources to stay fuller, but if I'm having a craving and a meal calls for a certain amount of carbs, why not get them from something tasty, if in the long run it won't change anything.

Also, I read this is for regular fat loss, not contest prep.


Skip believes 'fullness' is related to caloric intake, not volume. Eat a stick of butter and tell me you don't get full.

I agree this is best used for cravings and convenience. Quality carbs still provide health benefits that processed carbs don't.

Skip is planning to try it for contest prep.


Next step is seeing if it works for contest prep actually lol

Being able to rely on just about any carb source with low fat would make stuff that much easier, and fun..

Im not sure I understand what you mean when you say "stay fuller" tough


If I remember no bloodwork is being done, so this won't tell if there is a negative impact upon health merely that carbs are equal for body composition.


Alan Aragon wrote an article which is supportive of what Skip is doing livestrong.com/article/435162-a-closer-look-at-the-glycemic-index/

It probably does make sense, in the end. For me it's a psychological issue, of control/ lack of it. For better or worse, eating cookies or something doesn't feel 'in control' like eating home-made potato wedges, or oats or something similar. This can slow down the momentum I usually get with dietary control, IME


I remember that thread with Bill vs Alan, lol.


I'd be interested to see how carb sources reflect body composition while bulking up. I wonder if Skip will try this in reverse though it going from his anecdotal evidence it would logically work in reverse as well.


Idk, maybe I've never noticed it, but I feel like one cup of oats would keep me full vs 3 tablespoons Natural Peanut butter which is about the same calorie intake.

---Not that this has anything to do with the current topic---