T Nation

Carb Source... Does it Matter?

Diet below (I work night shift so times might seem weird), here is my question first.

I am doing carb cycling and was trying to eat mostly solid food, but since I train shortly after I wake up I didn’t want to eat too much solid food…anyway I tired to eat either white rice or fruit for pre and post work out meals, but I feel like getting sick once I eat all that especially post work out.

My question is wouldn’t it be basically the same thing to drink orange juice for my carbs pre and post work out as, say, eating rice?
Orange Juice would actually seem the better choice to me over white rice. Real fruit would obviously be the better than OJ but I tried 2 bananas and an apple one day and almost puked, I’ve been on OJ since.

This is a Medium carb day and have been trying to follow CT’s Carb Cycling Codex http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article//the_carb_cycling_codex

Meal 1

2:00 PM

shake 2 scoop whey
1 cup rice

Supplements
1 Carbolin 19, 1 HOT-ROX
5g l-Leucine, 1 mv, 5g bcaa, 5 g Creatine
2 beta 7, 4 q 10

Meal 2 4pm

shake 1 scoop whey
Surge
1 cup rice
1/2 Apple
Supplements
5 g glutamine, 5 g bcaa, 5 g creatine

Meal 3 6 pm

1 cup chicken breast
1 cup rice
or 2 banana or 3 apples

Supplements
5g leucine

Meal 4 10 pm

1 cup chicken breast
8 almonds
1 tbsp flax seed
Supplements
1 Carbolin 19, 1 HOT-ROX
5g l-Leucine, 2 beta 7, 4 q 10

Meal 5 2 am

200 grams steak 50

1 tbsp flax seed
Meal 6 6 am

1 scoops Metabolic Drive
1 tbsp flax seed
8 almonds
Supplements
1 Carbolin 19
5g l-Leucine, 2 mv, 5g bcaa, 5 g Creatine
2 Beta-7, 4 q 10

Fruit is far from “optimal” post workout. The fructose in the fruit will take longer to digest, having the liver to process it first. Rice and the like is a much better choice. If rice makes you feel sick to eat, look into buying some Surge or some Waxy Maize to get your carbs from.

Sorry, and I do not want to nitpick here, but a combination of fructose and glucose may increase the rate of glycogen replenishment post exercise. I think that some fruit after training is a pretty good idea.

I wouldn’t add any fructose to my PWO shake. I like dex/malto combination. You cannot go wrong with Surge. I would rather add fruit an hour later with my PWO meal.

Thanks for reply’s. So I could use a double serving of Surge post work out, seems fine, maybe a little expensive. Again, thanks for advice. I’ll have to tweak a few things.

[quote]elusive wrote:
Fruit is far from “optimal” post workout. The fructose in the fruit will take longer to digest, having the liver to process it first. Rice and the like is a much better choice. If rice makes you feel sick to eat, look into buying some Surge or some Waxy Maize to get your carbs from.[/quote]

Didn’t I read that the fructose in actual fruit is different than the additive? and I have been noticing that there have been recommendations for serving of a citrus fruit pre and post workout to refill glycogen and also to boost the vitamin C intake.

[quote]groundin wrote:
Thanks for reply’s. So I could use a double serving of Surge post work out, seems fine, maybe a little expensive. Again, thanks for advice. I’ll have to tweak a few things.[/quote]

Why are you double dosing Surge postworkout? If you feel you absolutley need to double up, I would do one serving during your workout and one after.
Read this http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_nutrition/the_double_surge_challenge_the_most_powerful_nutritional_protocol_ever

IMO you are taking too much creatine. Carbolin 19 and HOT-ROX at the same time? Why? Also what time are you working out?

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
elusive wrote:
Fruit is far from “optimal” post workout. The fructose in the fruit will take longer to digest, having the liver to process it first. Rice and the like is a much better choice. If rice makes you feel sick to eat, look into buying some Surge or some Waxy Maize to get your carbs from.

Didn’t I read that the fructose in actual fruit is different than the additive? and I have been noticing that there have been recommendations for serving of a citrus fruit pre and post workout to refill glycogen and also to boost the vitamin C intake.

[/quote]
I know that “some” fructose may be beneficial post workout, but if I had to choose between fruit or rice, I think rice would be the better option. Although, it would be great if someone with infinite knowledge (Bill Roberts) came in and touched upon this.

[quote]redgladiator wrote:
groundin wrote:
Thanks for reply’s. So I could use a double serving of Surge post work out, seems fine, maybe a little expensive. Again, thanks for advice. I’ll have to tweak a few things.

Why are you double dosing Surge postworkout? If you feel you absolutley need to double up, I would do one serving during your workout and one after.
Read this http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_nutrition/the_double_surge_challenge_the_most_powerful_nutritional_protocol_ever

IMO you are taking too much creatine. Carbolin 19 and HOT-ROX at the same time? Why? Also what time are you working out?[/quote]

To answer some of your concerns about my diet/supplements…I am not double dosing Surge post work out… I use 1 scoop during and 2 scoops in post work out whey shake…on medium carb day I should be consuming 106 g carbs post work out, on low its 80g and on high carb day its 122g. Low day isn’t too bad 80g carbs I can do, its the other two days that I struggle with getting the carbs. I read the Article on double dosing Surge and it sounds like a good idea to split it (sort of like I’m doing but twice as much).

My real question I guess was why does it matter so much what kind of carb I take as long as it increases my insulin level…the answer I seem to be getting is fruit (and by extention fruit juice) does not increase insulin quickly enough.

To answer the creatine question…10g/day doesn’t seem to high to me, it’s cheap, I can afford it, so I figure why not. I can’t OD on it, and unless it’s going to negatively impact my work outs I’ll continue to dose it at 10g/day.

About Carbolin 19 and HRX at same time…I use HRX for thermogenic reasons (to help me burn fat) and I take the Carbolin 19 to help maximize lean muscle gains. I realize they both have Carbolin 19 in them, but again I don’t think I can OD on it…let me know if this is wrong.
I go to sleep at 7am, wake up at 12:30pm work out at 1pm until 2 or 2:30pm (depending on body part).

I re-read my last post, it sounded a little rude…it definatly wasn’t intended to be.

I was just stating the reasons why I am supplementing the way I am.
:slight_smile:

Yeah your original post list 5g creatine at 2pm 4pm and 2am. This is 15g :slight_smile:

Too much Carbolin 19 leads to low blood pressure and makes the heart pump more forcefully. I don’t know how much is too much tho.

Also your meal 2, you are taking Surge with this meal? All at the same time?

Meal 2 4pm

shake 1 scoop whey
Surge
1 cup rice
1/2 Apple
Supplements
5 g glutamine, 5 g bcaa, 5 g creatine

[quote]redgladiator wrote:
Yeah your original post list 5g creatine at 2pm 4pm and 2am. This is 15g :slight_smile:

Too much Carbolin 19 leads to low blood pressure and makes the heart pump more forcefully. I don’t know how much is too much tho.

Also your meal 2, you are taking Surge with this meal? All at the same time?

Meal 2 4pm

shake 1 scoop whey
Surge
1 cup rice
1/2 Apple
Supplements
5 g glutamine, 5 g bcaa, 5 g creatine
[/quote]

My bad…its the 6am meal that lists creatine…but i don’t take that, haven’t updated list of sups since loading phase :frowning:

Yes…the 4pm meal on a medium carb day should include 106g carbs 46 from Surge (I count the 1 scoop during along with the 2 scoops post) 1 cup rice is approx 45g and 1/2 apple is approx 10g for 100 carbs total, I have dropped the rice and apple and gone with 2 cups OJ (about 56g carbs) just because i can’t stomach all the carbs (in solid form)right after the work out.

Thanks for the info on Carbolin 19, I hadn’t seen that anywhere before.

[quote]Tim Patterson wrote:

The negative side effects aren’t that negative: hypotension (low blood pressure) and positive-inotropic effect on the heart (making the heart pump more forcefully).
[/quote]

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/gaspari_thyrotabs?id=1066830&pageNo=1

Yeah the side effects don’t seem too bad :slight_smile:

PWO I like Surge with creatine and BCAA and that’s it. I wouldn’t complicate things by adding fructose. Then a solid meal an hour after.

Thanks Red.

I’ll read the thread in a bit to see what it says about dosing, may have to drop Carbolin 19 or HRX I guess, will do some more research.