T Nation

Carb Refeed Science?


#1

Just to clarify for myself. When someone is using a carb cycling diet like Carb Nite or the Anabolic Diet, and they are completely glycogen depleted, if they had a refeed day consisting of 4500 calories (which would be way above maintenance) then theoretically it should be impossible to get fat from this as the carb portion of their meal will turn solely into glycogen?

If this is true then why don't more ketogenic dieters do this? Fear of falling off the wagon?

Will a person not begin using fat for fuel again unless he is again carb depleted?

Thanks a lot


#2

read everything you can from Lyle McDonald… but basically, yes you can get fat, but its like 3rd or 4th on the list of your body’s priorities while completely glycogen depleted.


#3

Thanks, I’ve heard of him and I’ll definitely check his work out.


#4

The whole “I can’t get fat, it’s a cheat day” approach that I see so many newer competitors employ is just asking for problems. As Elusive wrote, it’s not your body’s priorities if it truly is severely depleted (which many people overestimate how depleted their glycogen stores are IMO), but it is possible. Dr Joe always stressed how often people actually set themselves back with such a haphazzard approach. Even when you’re capable of supercompensating, there’s always a limit.

As to fat as fuel, there is always some amount of fat being used, just as there is always some amount of carbs/glycogen being used. It’s simply the ratios that change based on different factors throughout the day.

S


#5

I think carb timing like that gets overdone. When I see a guy post all day every Sunday on social networking getting a boner over 8 cups of brown rice and a fun size snickers, I just think he could’ve ate that spread throughout the week. Keeping a healthy relationship with food is really a big factor in deit planning.


#6

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
I think carb timing like that gets overdone. When I see a guy post all day every Sunday on social networking getting a boner over 8 cups of brown rice and a fun size snickers, I just think he could’ve ate that spread throughout the week. Keeping a healthy relationship with food is really a big factor in deit planning.[/quote]

Yeah, but saying something like “reduce your calories” to lose weight or “keep your diet flexible” isn’t special sounding and people want to feel as if they worked for something. Hence why there’s a former T-Nation writer who has a strategy that blends three forms of eating disorders over a week’s menu.


#7

Also, I think what a lot of people fail to realize is that carb-timing, even to the extent it improves fat loss, will not alter thermodynamics. It’s not like you get to eat 5,000 calories in a sitting and all that energy above maintenance just dissipates into the 5th dimension. At the end of the day (or week, for that matter), calories expended must be greater than those consumed if you want to lose fat.


#8

My 1st post (hope its a strong one). I see what you guys are saying but I disagree with some of it. If I have a flexible plan I find I get too haphazard, so I do better with a controlled diet. The problem then becomes if it is strict then it is hard to fit it into any kind of normal life. When I want treats I cant just eat 1 cup of ice cream, because then I go apeshit. I would rather feel like I am dieting and suffer for a bit for part of the week to be able to eat freely in social situations and eat things I enjoy. Personal preference I guess. I have seen too many success stories from Skip and Scott Abel to not believe that supercompension cannot do amazing things to a body.


#9

[quote]TheApexPredator wrote:
My 1st post (hope its a strong one). I see what you guys are saying but I disagree with some of it. If I have a flexible plan I find I get too haphazard, so I do better with a controlled diet. The problem then becomes if it is strict then it is hard to fit it into any kind of normal life. When I want treats I cant just eat 1 cup of ice cream, because then I go apeshit. I would rather feel like I am dieting and suffer for a bit for part of the week to be able to eat freely in social situations and eat things I enjoy. Personal preference I guess. I have seen too many success stories from Skip and Scott Abel to not believe that supercompension cannot do amazing things to a body. [/quote]
from what I see you still have

  1. carbs near the same per week
  2. a diet that you can follow easily because it works for your psychology

what is the actual benefit to supercompensation? I see it as a mental thing - you get to eat boxes of cereal and pop tarts and then get a huge pump and take selfies


#10

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
I think carb timing like that gets overdone. When I see a guy post all day every Sunday on social networking getting a boner over 8 cups of brown rice and a fun size snickers, I just think he could’ve ate that spread throughout the week. Keeping a healthy relationship with food is really a big factor in deit planning.[/quote]

Yeah, but saying something like “reduce your calories” to lose weight or “keep your diet flexible” isn’t special sounding and people want to feel as if they worked for something. Hence why there’s a former T-Nation writer who has a strategy that blends three forms of eating disorders over a week’s menu. [/quote]

man, being diligent with diet and reading all those articles was the worst thing I could’ve done. I should’ve just kept eating how I was (~2/3 healthy balanced meals, the rest junk food and beer) + have 2 protein shakes a day like every other frat bro. In hindsight, that would’ve given better gains. You should post more like this, rather than write essays arguing against PX : )