T Nation

Carb Cycling & Exogenous Insulin


#1

Has anyone tried the carb cycling method when training around 1800, with insulin pre and/or post training or with any success in general?

My diet structure for carb cycling is as follows:
0600-carb/protein meal for glycogen reload following sleeping.
0900, 1200, 1500 fats/protein ok.
1700 (pre trg: 30ml MCT+ no carb pre workout
1800-2000 train.
2000-70g dextrose, BCAA, vit C, 2015 30g protein & 60g oats(30g carbs)
2200-oats/brown rice (100)g carbs, chicken & broc.

Although i should be having more carbs (390 on moderate days) and have a generally high carb diet, more than 100g carbs/meal seems excessive. Anyone's thoughts on this? Even with insulin, 10g carbs/IU of insulin is the standard, so anymore than this without that chemical aid seems like a good recipe for fat storage.

Also, 100g carbs an hour before bed? Surely glycogen refill would be complete and this is overkill?

I would like to reload glycogen post training with 10IU insulin around 2000 with a similar carb protocol, although only 50g carbs at 2200.

Can anyone provide any feedback or thoughts on this method of eating.


#2

Just eat whatever. I eat 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight and then I try eat as much as I can. I haven't seen any science to support this stuff. Food is food, I don't think it makes a difference except for the top level athelete and people try to get <5% bodyfat by using unhealthy ketogenic diets.

You didn't what type of insulin you're using. With anything more than a moderate dose of humalin-R (fast acting), you should drink a nondiet soda or eat candy. Insulin should only be used during bulking and it is really dangerous.


#3

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#4

I'd like more information about this. Can you show me proof that carbs are worse than fats in a nonketogenic diet? What about proof that the ridiculous amounts of protein bodybuidlers eat do anything. I'd say there's no proof that more than a gram of protein per pound of bodyweight is helpful and that there's no proof that the source of calories makes a practical difference (1g per lb of bodyweight is a lot compared to the average diet).

There are high and low GI carbs, but unless you're on a very low calorie diet I don't think that'll make a difference. There might be some benefit to keeping bloodsugar constant with 5 meals of low GI nonGM whole grains, but I think the difference is minimal with healthy males. If I'm wrong proove me wrong, but from what I've read I'm right except while trying to cut without gear, t3, or clen. As I said, that's what I believe, and I haven't seen any science otherwise. Deepka Chopra is NOT a source.

If I were completely sure about my opinions I would post them, so I really would like to hear what you have to say.

Youre right about the insulin definition. I should've said insulin aspart, there's a bunch of different brand names for insulins.

Insulin seems great while trying to lose weight, but I think it's only dangerous when used that way. I wouldn't advise people to use it unless they're going to eat a lot of quickly absorbed calories when they take it. Insulin is only dangerous if blood sugar is low.


#5

I'd like more information about this. Can you show me proof that carbs are worse than fats in a nonketogenic diet? What about proof that the ridiculous amounts of protein bodybuidlers eat do anything. I'd say there's no proof that more than a gram of protein per pound of bodyweight is helpful and that there's no proof that the source of calories makes a practical difference (1g per lb of bodyweight is a lot compared to the average diet).

There are high and low GI carbs, but unless you're on a very low calorie diet I don't think that'll make a difference. There might be some benefit to keeping bloodsugar constant with 5 meals of low GI nonGM whole grains, but I think the difference is minimal with healthy males. If I'm wrong proove me wrong, but from what I've read I'm right except while trying to cut without gear, t3, or clen. As I said, that's what I believe, and I haven't seen any science otherwise. Deepka Chopra is NOT a source.

If I were completely sure about my opinions I would post them, so I really would like to hear what you have to say.

Youre right about the insulin definition. I should've said insulin aspart, there's a bunch of different brand names for insulins.

Insulin seems great while trying to lose weight, but I think it's only dangerous when used that way. I wouldn't advise people to use it unless they're going to eat a lot of quickly absorbed calories when they take it. Insulin is only dangerous if blood sugar is low.


#6

I'd like more information about this. Can you show me proof that carbs are worse than fats in a nonketogenic diet? What about proof that the ridiculous amounts of protein bodybuidlers eat do anything. I'd say there's no proof that more than a gram of protein per pound of bodyweight is helpful and that there's no proof that the source of calories makes a practical difference (1g per lb of bodyweight is a lot compared to the average diet).

There are high and low GI carbs, but unless you're on a very low calorie diet I don't think that'll make a difference. There might be some benefit to keeping bloodsugar constant with 5 meals of low GI nonGM whole grains, but I think the difference is minimal with healthy males. If I'm wrong proove me wrong, but from what I've read I'm right except while trying to cut without gear, t3, or clen. As I said, that's what I believe, and I haven't seen any science otherwise. Deepka Chopra is NOT a source.

If I were completely sure about my opinions I would post them, so I really would like to hear what you have to say.

Youre right about the insulin definition. I should've said insulin aspart, there's a bunch of different brand names for insulins.

Insulin seems great while trying to lose weight, but I think it's only dangerous when used that way. I wouldn't advise people to use it unless they're going to eat a lot of quickly absorbed calories when they take it. Insulin is only dangerous if blood sugar is low.


#7

Lover95, I really wonder whether you're genuinely clueless, or you're going out of your way to give people bad advice.


#8

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#9

Hmmm...why do i feel like this thread has not been as productive as i would have liked.
What i'm getting at is my body likes carbs, but scientifically and on a performance level it only needs them in tehe mornings and either during training (Insulin pre) or post (Insulin post) realistically i'll prob end up on 200g carbs total/day and 100 on non training days.
And for the record of course i'm using fast acting insulin.


#10

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#11

Not helpful? Hmmmm...well lets try this:
I'm 187CM, 120KG, 12-15%BF. Been training for years.

Previous use with insulin, i prefer pre workout, but had concerns with this diet and fat timings being too close to training time to run insulin pre training.

Goals - At the moment i'm leaning up a bit, but looking at this diet scientifically it should be able to add mass and lean up by adjusting calories from fat.

I understand the dextrose will create an insulin spike without exo insulin, but would have used it to enhance the nutrient shuffle into the muscle post training.

PWO carbs will be vital for performnce the next day given the reduced amount of carbs being consumed, but i've modified the carb cycling approach a little bit to include pre workout insulin or post workout high GI carbs if not using insulin.

0600-carb/protein meal for glycogen reload following sleeping. I've split the high GI carbs up from the low gi and protein as protein seems to slow absorbtion (Having fruit for liver glycogen refill)
0900 fats/protein, broccoli
1200 Carb/preotein meal (Low GI)
1500 fats/protein, broccoli
1830 Insulin-Novorapid 10iu
1835 -2000 Train with peri workout drink BCAA, VIT C, dextrose (50g) consumed over the workout period to reload glycogen in the muscle while transporting nutrients. I have found this to be more effective than carbs periworkout for fat loss and performance.
2000 protein shake, chicken breast
2200 fats/protein , broccoli

On another note, have you tried metformin. Increases insulin sensitivity, etc. Looks like if used carefully may enhance the use of insulin. Also increase the risk of a hypo, but there looks like there is potential.
Generally looks like a good addition to most carb meals in general and bad insulin sensitivity can cause health issues.