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Carb-Back Loading by John Kiefer

Seems like an Ideal diet and also with promising results. Anyone give it a shot?

Been backloading for about 1-1.5 years now. Love it.

I use CBL and have had great success with it.

Search this forum, plenty of posts from people who have tried it. I tried it and ran it for a good 6 months. I suggest not to follow the book to a T or you will just get fat. Instead follow the principles, ie save carbs to the peri-workout period etc. Just dont go crazy on the crappy carbs. I still run it most of the time, major things i have changed are i have dropped the shitty carbs & just stick with rice & potatoes when i can. Also i have followed Meadows recommendation and have moved about a third of my carb count into a pre-workout meal & a peri-workout ‘plazma’ type shake.

It seems like an efficient way of eating & there are plenty of experts now recommending eating in a similar fashion. If you want to run it by the book I would wait until CBL v.2 is released (should be soon).

Okay I Will, I’ve just been going crazy reading a million different accounts on carbs whether to go low 50g> all weekday and friday night and Saturday carb up, which I’ve been doing but If I can incorporate some grain carbs post workout(rice or whatnot) that would be awesome also

[quote]dudsman wrote:
Search this forum, plenty of posts from people who have tried it. I tried it and ran it for a good 6 months. I suggest not to follow the book to a T or you will just get fat. Instead follow the principles, ie save carbs to the peri-workout period etc. Just dont go crazy on the crappy carbs. I still run it most of the time, major things i have changed are i have dropped the shitty carbs & just stick with rice & potatoes when i can. Also i have followed Meadows recommendation and have moved about a third of my carb count into a pre-workout meal & a peri-workout ‘plazma’ type shake.

It seems like an efficient way of eating & there are plenty of experts now recommending eating in a similar fashion. If you want to run it by the book I would wait until CBL v.2 is released (should be soon). [/quote]

This is good advice here. Don’t think this is a magic program to eat ‘crap’. Most of my backloads consist of rice, potatoes, stuff like that. I definitely get sweets in and stuff, but I also count my macros. It’s definitely a style of eating you have to adjust to your own needs and such.

Lost 9# in first 13 days of carb fast (<30gr per day) and yet kept my strength. Then followed the program with the exception that others have mentioned i.e. Stay Away from the Crappy Carbs ! Rice, Potatoes and other “Good” carbos work wonders !

Also, I tend to follow the advice of Jamie Lewis from Chaos+Pain Infamy, his Apex Predator diet is very similar.

Both work well when eating closer to Paleo as well…

I tend to eat Paleo but follow the CBL/ Apex model of TIMING and it works out very well, for what its worth…

Be Strong, Explosive, Agile and Lean !

[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
Lost 9# in first 13 days of carb fast (<30gr per day) and yet kept my strength. Then followed the program with the exception that others have mentioned i.e. Stay Away from the Crappy Carbs ! Rice, Potatoes and other “Good” carbos work wonders !

Also, I tend to follow the advice of Jamie Lewis from Chaos+Pain Infamy, his Apex Predator diet is very similar.

Both work well when eating closer to Paleo as well…

I tend to eat Paleo but follow the CBL/ Apex model of TIMING and it works out very well, for what its worth…

Be Strong, Explosive, Agile and Lean ![/quote]

CnP actually just posted an interesting article kind of ripping CBL, if you’d like to look at it. Pretty interesting.

Hey Spidey22, I actually did see that before I posted above. I am a great admirer of Jamie Lewis and have been following his blog for about 3 years now. I am actually very aware of his Apex Predator Diet and love it as well.

Where I think Jamie rips on CBL is the use of “crappy” carbs, he does have a point ! I follow Both by using protein shakes after my morning Prowler cardio fast on coffee four days a week, then eating bone in meat, eggs and cheese along with a HUGE salad at lunch and dinner, again four days a week. My carbs do not go in until after my pm training sessions !

I really do not think nor believe that either is the end all and be all, yet they do seem to be Very close in both substance and style.

So try them both for say a twelve week run and see what works for your body, training expectations and lifestyle : )

Lets keep this flowing…

Yeah I’ve followed CBL for awhile, and had the best results with it from using ‘cleaner’ sources.

I’m experimenting with carbs in the evening, but having a some pre-WO and intra WO carbs as well. So far I’ve liked it.

What sort of carbs you guys adding in for your pre-workout?

Where can i find that CnP diet stuff?

[quote]dudsman wrote:
What sort of carbs you guys adding in for your pre-workout?

Where can i find that CnP diet stuff?[/quote]

I took the advice of adding some fat along with my carbs pre-WO, a la John Meadows. Some much bigger guys gave me the idea, but I just eat 2 pop-tarts with 2 tbsp of PB

Try googling “a refutation of the science of carb backloading”

I’ve been experimenting with some dark chocolate about 40-60 mins before workout. Definitely getting a good buzz from it, just closely monitoring bf levels.

I did find some info on CnP diet stuff. Could be a good diet (wonder what JM thinks about his point of view on peri-workout nutrition), but just too much macho bullshit for me to stomach. I want science & facts not a dick swinging competition.

[quote]dudsman wrote:
I’ve been experimenting with some dark chocolate about 40-60 mins before workout. Definitely getting a good buzz from it, just closely monitoring bf levels.

I did find some info on CnP diet stuff. Could be a good diet (wonder what JM thinks about his point of view on peri-workout nutrition), but just too much macho bullshit for me to stomach. I want science & facts not a dick swinging competition.[/quote]

Yeah, an old poster named BushidoBadBoy use to recommend that to people pre-wo I forgot the reason why, but some got solid results from it.

I don’t really like the CnP Diet (called the Apex Predator Diet), but I did like the guy who came on there and kind of showed some flaws in CBL’s use of scientific literature. I’d like to see Kiefer address some of them.

I’ve searched lots of carb back loading forums after reading the book, but I’d like to hear some different opinions about utilizing CBL while doing 2 a day workouts. I’m in the military, and I PT in the morning at 0600 (running or anaerobic training usually i.e. crossfit oriented w/o’s), and I lift (hypertrophy/volumetric training) around 1700 everyday. My morning PT usually depletes my glycogen stores for the 2nd workout of the day. What are some recommendations for restoring glycogen post workout for my 6am PT. Should I go heavy on the carbs after the morning PT?

[quote]Sketchboyardee wrote:
I’ve searched lots of carb back loading forums after reading the book, but I’d like to hear some different opinions about utilizing CBL while doing 2 a day workouts. I’m in the military, and I PT in the morning at 0600 (running or anaerobic training usually i.e. crossfit oriented w/o’s), and I lift (hypertrophy/volumetric training) around 1700 everyday. My morning PT usually depletes my glycogen stores for the 2nd workout of the day. What are some recommendations for restoring glycogen post workout for my 6am PT. Should I go heavy on the carbs after the morning PT?[/quote]

I’m not positive on this, but I think it takes a LOT to deplete your glycogen stores if you’re eating an ample amount of carbs. But regardless, backloads will likely be bigger for you then most, just because of all your activity.

For the morning sesh, I would let my carbs from the night previous be my fuel, maybe have coffee, Keifer coffee, whatever. After that workout, I would just have some whey, maybe some added leucine if you’re paranoid. And if you are genuinely crazy worried, have about 30g of carbs with your protein after this workout, but no more. Keifer suggests this sometimes, but more so for those trying to gain mass, lifting in the mornings, and fat loss isn’t a main concern. For you, I think it would work just because insane amount of work your doing will keep you lean enough that a few hours of slightly less-effective fat burning isn’t going to ruin you.

So re-cap:

Wake-up: Coffee, whatever
600: PT Workout
Post-WO: 50g P, 30g C
Low carb Meals until
1700: PM Training
Post-WO: Backload

I’d keep a hefty amount of carbs for your last meal of the day, too. Right before bed, so you’ll have the energy for PT

What Spidey said !
I have been doing fasted cardio (prowler) at O:600 since march now. Added in westside lifting after 17:00 (usually about 18:30) for the last 4 weeks since the competitive cycling season is over. Have had very good results once again.

monday is heavy Bench/press
tuesday is explosive Squat/ dead
wed off
thursday explosive Bench
friday heavy Squat and Dead.
Sat/Sun off except for some altitude hiking.

Eat all my carbs on Wednesday nite after 7pm. I find this works very well even though I may drag ass by the time tuesdays pm session comes around. I am more interested in keeping the heavy in the squat/ dead and keeping an explosive bench fed then the mon/tues combo. Also this works with how my morning Prowler sessions fall during the week…

I Do manage to keep BF down close to single digit with this training setup.

Excellent advice gentleman. I appreciate the feedback.

Thankfully I was able to watch Keifer give a 4+ hour lecture at the new Poliquin Institute on all of stuff. Very interesting and as it turns out I have been doing something similar and near for quite a while now, but with Keifers add explanations and science I want to try some different things out.

Some people in the group said it worked very well and then they got fat. Keifer himself is probably one of the largest and most defined lecturers I have seen, so that actually helped swayed me. Very good lecture overall.

I did pretty good, actually got down to 6% on biosig, by using gluten free carbs/deserts instead of no holds-whatever carbs.
Keifer though swears by apple turnovers and donuts.

[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Thankfully I was able to watch Keifer give a 4+ hour lecture at the new Poliquin Institute on all of stuff. Very interesting and as it turns out I have been doing something similar and near for quite a while now, but with Keifers add explanations and science I want to try some different things out.

Some people in the group said it worked very well and then they got fat. Keifer himself is probably one of the largest and most defined lecturers I have seen, so that actually helped swayed me. Very good lecture overall.

I did pretty good, actually got down to 6% on biosig, by using gluten free carbs/deserts instead of no holds-whatever carbs.
Keifer though swears by apple turnovers and donuts. [/quote]

So Kiefer looked in shape? I was hoping you’d say that!

I’m a very happy CBL’er too, and it’s nice to know that he’s practicing what he preaches!
Kinda like I’d hate to ever see an out of shape Thibs gasp!

Like you, Ive had great results using gluten-free carb sources.
I started CBL about 6 months ago and have put on around 4.5kgs (to 101kg at 6’2’)of quality mass. Having a bunch of extra carbs in the system without getting fatter from them is gold. My big lifts on all my layers workouts have exploded upwards…

The point about how some people can get fat from it is very valid. If not followed correctly it won’t work well for the metabolically challenged.
Usually when trainers get fat on it, its a result of:

  1. People just POUNDING the carbs en masse, like EVERY DAY, without performing hard, taxing, weight-lifting. “I walked up a flight of stairs today, so I’m gonna smash that box of donuts coz I’m Carb Backloading!!” Gimme a break…
  2. Screwing up the very specific macros on the ‘no-carb’ portion of the day (before you lift). Very Important.
  3. Using the wrong type of carbs. ‘Healthy’ (haha) low GI grains, completely ruin the diet if consumed before bed.
  4. Not skipping breakfast (or worse, eating a carby breakfast) to extend the fat burning fast.

Everytime one of my clients isn’t responding to CBL, it will be one or more of the above 4 points. Without fail.