I have always associated the word patriot specifically with the US, maybe I’ve seen to many Mel Gibson movies recently.
If support of one’s country is how you define patriot, are the terms patriot and nationalist interchangeable?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If support of one’s country is how you define patriot, are the terms patriot and nationalist interchangeable?[/quote]
A patriot is someone who loves his country. A nationalist is someone who’s an asshole about it.
It’s the same difference as between being a Muslim and being an Islamist.
Prcaldude , indeed you are a knowledgable man and like to flaunt it, i suggest stop bagging islam and get bigger and lose some lard tubby, you are 205 @ 15-20 percent ( the higher end of the scale i suspect).
Instead of eating bacon , while reading the quaran may be you should go lift and do some cardio.
All i ever see you do on these forums is trash islam, dude get a life!!!
I tend to think of Paleocons harping on Israel and an international zionist cabal, when I see “Patriot.” All while ignoring islamic supremacy, terrorism, and seperatism stretched across a far larger geographical area than Israel currently survives on.
But, I could be wrong. It does happen.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I tend to think of Paleocons harping on Israel and an international zionist cabal, when I see “Patriot.” All while ignoring islamic supremacy, terrorism, and seperatism stretched across a far larger geographical area than Israel currently survives on.
[/quote]
Bingo.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
If support of one’s country is how you define patriot, are the terms patriot and nationalist interchangeable?
A patriot is someone who loves his country. A nationalist is someone who’s an asshole about it.
It’s the same difference as between being a Muslim and being an Islamist.[/quote]
Well put.
Orwell: “By “patriotism” I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one?has no wish to force upon other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unity in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.”
G.K. Chesterton: “The patriot never under any circumstances boasts of the largeness of his country, but always, and of necessity, boasts of the smallness of it.”
Good short essay on the subject here:
http://theamericanscene.com/2008/03/31/i-am-not-a-nationalist-and-here-are-a-few-reasons-why
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
I doubt your assertion that you will be ‘right next to (me)’ very much. In fact, I could much sooner believe that you will be shooting AT me rather than WITH me, given your tendency to uncritically side with jihadists globally in every instance of jihad we’ve discussed. [/quote]
For someone that spends so much time on this board, you’re not very interested in a discussion. Every time someone tries to make a rational and even-tempered argument, you immediately label him an anti-Semite and/or crypto-Muslim. If you’re trying to recruit minds to your agenda you’re probably doing an even worse job than Lixy.
[quote]lixy wrote:
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Conversion to Islam does not, nor has it ever required the presence of an Imam.
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Lobster is not forbidden in Islam. Some theorize that it is makrooh (i.e: not recommended) based on some dubious Hadith.
“Lawful to you is (the pursuit of) watergame and its use for food - for the benefit of yourselves and those who travel […]” – Quran 5:96
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There is no civil code in Saudi Arabia. Such matters are left to self-proclaimed religious experts which the majority considers as hacks.
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The zakat is only given to a mosque (note the indefinite article) for convenience. The idea behind it is to free one’s self from greed by kicking down a couple of points from your money to the poor.
“Alms are for the poor and the needy, and those employed in that purpose; for those whose hearts have been (recently) reconciled (to Truth); for those in bondage and in debt; in the cause of Allah. and for the wayfarer: (thus is it) ordained by Allah, and Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.” – Quran 9:60
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9001 is strictly superior to 9000.
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People are scared of that which they do not understand. Ironically, this might as well be straight from Richard Dawkins’ mouth.
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A patriot is a person with strong positive emotions towards a country. The concept may be linked to riots. Any connection our resident communism-fleeing Pat is purely coincidental.[/quote]
LOL Great post
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Here’s my take on it. I see Islamism as THE Nazism of the 21st century. There are so many parallels between it and 1920s and 1930s Germany and Italy that it’s uncanny.
There were those who warned about Nazism prior to 1938 and were dismissed. Their dismissal subsequently cost millions of lives and the greatest conflict in the history of the planet.
Since then the advent of nuclear and biological weapons has magnified the consequences of a repeat of 1933 - 1945.
That doesn’t mean every single Muslim should be worthy of contempt and is hellbent on destruction of infidels. But the alarms should be sounded…and heeded.[/quote]
See, this is a reasonable sentiment. I agree with everything you just said, Push, except that I see Islamism as A Nazism rather than THE Nazism at work these days. First among equals, maybe, but by no means alone.
I reckon you’re one o’ them thar ‘Patriots’ I been hearin’ 'bout.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
But that’s why I don’t have a problem with PRCal’s posts as some others do. I think he’s sounding the alarm. Some, like me, are heeding it. Others are scoffing.
History tells me the scoffers end up being the Chamberlains. I rather hope I’m smart enough to end up in the Churchill camp.[/quote]
Well, I don’t have such a big problem with his posts so much as I think he’s overstating his argument, and being more acerbic than perhaps he needs to. You and I can disagree about, say, abortion, but we can do it civilly, and upon discussion, find that we may have more common ground than either of us previously thought.
With PR, he’s a smart guy, and he knows his stuff, but there’s no latitude for discussion with him, as GDollars mentioned. It’s one of the biggest problems I have with fundamentalists of all stripes: there is only one truth, and disagreement with any of their points, or not sharing their fervor, puts you irrevocably in the opposite camp.
I certainly admire his zeal, but trying to have any sort of discourse with him feels like banging against a brick wall sometimes.
[quote]
With PR, he’s a smart guy, and he knows his stuff, but there’s no latitude for discussion with him, as GDollars mentioned. [/quote]
Oh, but this is untrue. I’m even willing to discuss Israel’s influence on our foreign policy if I could get you and GDollars to give at least some time to the question of jihad. Given that Surah 3:112 is listed before the preamble to Hamas’ charter, I think a discussion of Islamic doctrine (as it relates to the Jewish question) is warranted. But you and he both turn a blind eye.
Meanwhile, the Muslims mistreat their dhimmis in every country, but we’re expected to believe that the situation has somehow reversed itself in Israel, which is surrounded on all sides by Muslim countries and is only the size of Delaware.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
…With PR…there’s no latitude for discussion with him…It’s one of the biggest problems I have with fundamentalists of all stripes…
Don’t you think he could say the same thing about you or me when it comes to a subject such as…gun control…“a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed”?
Are you and I “fundamentalists” of a stripe?[/quote]
I doubt he’d say the same about you and me, considering he’s on the same side of the issue as we are.
However, it’s a good example, because this is one of a handful of issues discussed on this site that I am really and truly passionate about, with no devil’s advocate or double-talking contrarianism, as is my wont sometimes.
Notice, though, that even here, I generally try to make an effort to remain civil. All right, I threw some low blows at people like DemiAjax and AZMojo (whom I thought were acting like jackasses) over on the Liberty Control thread, which right from the start was intentionally very divisive and confrontational (“are you with us or against us?”). But when somebody like Schwarzfahrer or Cockney Blue comes along with a reasoned argument presented in a cordial manner, I might think their argument is completely wrong, but I’ll meet it in like fashion, with as much reason and courtesy as I can muster.
I don’t dislike either of these fellows, and in fact have discovered common ground with both of them, outside of the field of personal arms. In other words, the fact that we don’t see exactly eye to eye about guns is not a deal-breaker as far as I’m concerned. I don’t dislike PR, either. We have a lot in common as well. I’m beginning to suspect, though, that with PR religion is going to be a big deal breaker, and this is kind of a shame, because it needn’t be so.
PRCalDude, perhaps you consider it your personal mission to make us all aware of the dangers of complacency in the face of advancing Islamism. All right, I respect that. You’re the Anti-Islamist guy. I get it. But just because I’m not as outspoken about this issue as you are, don’t make the mistake of thinking that I’m against you. I think we’d be much more valuable to each other as allies than as enemies.
And for the record, in order to somehow get this behemoth of a post back on topic, I think that kidnapping little girls, beating them, raping them and selling them as sex slaves qualifies as unmitigated, unjustifiable evil.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
I’m even willing to discuss Israel’s influence on our foreign policy if I could get you and GDollars to give at least some time to the question of jihad. Given that Surah 3:112 is listed before the preamble to Hamas’ charter, I think a discussion of Islamic doctrine (as it relates to the Jewish question) is warranted. [/quote]
All right. It’s a deal. I can’t speak for GDollars, but name the time and place, and I’ll be there.
Well, then it’s a good thing I don’t keep it on the mantel.