T Nation

CAPPS II - A violation of YOUR rights!

Here is a violation of your rights to privacy and liberty. It is in the name of “Security” and it is called CAPPS - Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System. This system will check EVERYBODY who buys an airline ticket. It will check your background and your credit, then you are assigned a threat level. Making this information available not only to the security force at the airport, but the nimrod ticket people and every tom, dick and harry that works at the fucking airport. This is a clear violation of civil liberties and rights to privacy. Those of you who aggree PLEASE write you congress people and the white house. I already did.
Here are some links to get you started:

http://www.senate.gov

http://www.house.gov

If you are to lazy to write your own letter, feel free to use mine. This is what I have bombarded congress with:

“Dear :
This computer screening of airline passengers is a horrible violation of civil liberties. The government and airline employees do not have the right to our credit and background information. The U.S.S.R. never even took such measures. If we our going to fight for freedom for others, we should protect it first here. Do NOT pass the CAPPS program. It is wrong and I see no compelling evidence that it will stop any kind of terror. Also, I would rather risk the chance of terror, the have the imminent violation of my constitutional rights and liberties. So even if it was 100% effective, I would still be against it. It was Benjamin Franklin who said something to the effect of ‘Those who would choose security over freedom deserve neither.’. This is a good point and I choose freedom. If the U.S. government wants to continue to take my rights away in the ame of “security”, I would rather you just come over to my house and shoot me; I would be less upset about that.
Regards,”

LIVE FREE OR DIE!!!

That doesn’t bother me at all. I’d rather live with background checks than “die free” because some nimrod let the shoe bomber on the plane.

Check the spelling and grammar on that letter before you send it.

Also, here is another version of the quote: “They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.” It was on the internet, so it must be true, right? :slight_smile:

I actually think the CAPPS system is lacking in security. They should perform a full-body cavity search on all passengers. Or maybe that’s just my latent homosexuality speaking.

I’m with Doogie on this one. I don’t mind someone doing background checks if it means my plane won’t go down in flames because of a terrorist. What’s the pain in background checks if it makes a trip on an airplane safer.

Dustin

Another dude in support of Doogie’s position.

Also if favor of doggie position, but that’s another matter.

Good, all those in favor of background checks please post your social security numbers on the forum so that we may do background checks on you. I have as much right to check your credit and backgrounds as those assholes at the airport.
Keep in mind this will do nothing for security since most terroist will have manufactured ID’s with sqeaky clean records.
I also support cavity checks at the airport, only people with the proper asshole viscosity should be allowed to fly.

i work for American Airlines as a flight attendant (no I’m not gay - just love to fly).
My plane was on the runway at newark - ready for takeoff -when we saw the 2nd plane hit the WTC.
I am for CAPPs2. I wish the Flt Attendant were armed.
In 20 years of flying for AA - i have had 2 crashes and 2 hijackings - both hijackings - i either beat up the hijacker or assisted in the beating there of. Nobody fucks on my flights - help me stay safe inthe air and do my job by letting CAPPS do it’s job.
my humble opinion.

Live above suspicion, and you have nothing to worry about.

first airline tickets, then everything else, next thing you know they’ll put cameras in every house to make sure no “terrorist” activity is going on. Then we wont be able to wipe our ass without doing it the wrong way and it being an illegal “terrorist” activity. Can’t you see how our privacy and liberites are being taken away one by one pretty soon our lives are going to turn into a judge dredd movie with a really bad twist or maybe an enemy of the state movie with a bad twist on it. LIVE FREE OR DIE! thats my motto. You know how an ant eats an elephant…a piece at a time. Let the full capabilities of what our govt can do in time sink in and tell me if your ok with it.

pugs

Ahh…you liberals spewing things you don’t understand…

I saw the second plane hit the tower OUTSIDE my office window on 9/11 as I was munching on my breakfast at my desk. I heard that the Pentagon got hit, and my family LIVE in Northern Virginia, only 15-20 mins from the terrorist attack site. Unlike most of you, ESP. YOU PUG, I fly every week out of Dulles (from where the hijackers hijacked a plane that hit the Pentagon). I fly regardless of the terrorist alert level. I have to fly to work. (I’m not a flight attendant, btw, but a business traveler with a very important client in CA. I flew 50,000 miles this year so far…so don’t tell me I don’t know what it’s like to fly and travel.)

I go through the grueling security check, and all that. I’ve been pulled aside before. I’ve had my luggage searched, too. I’ve had been asked to turn on my laptop to make sure that my laptop is real, not some sophisticated bomb. But I do NOT b*tch at the TSA agents because they’re doing their job. And that’s keeping the air travel safe for us.

Whenever the plane takes off, I sometimes wonder if it’ll be hijacked. But I leave it up to fate since if I’m meant to die today, I’ll die today no matter what. And I respect the pilots and flight attendants’ desire for security. I used to hate full/almost full flights cuz I like to have a lot of space. Now I welcome full/almost full fligts cuz it means if there’s a terrorist on board, we won’t let that bastard do waht he wants to do to us and kill innocent American.

Background check is another way of making the air travel safer. We do background check when we hire people to make sure that we’re not hiring some weirdo. We do background check when we make loans to minimize the risk that the borrower’ll default. so why is air travel any different? If you default on the loan, some stupid bank lost money. If you have a terrorist on board, a lot of innocent people die. Looking at the magnitude, I can see why we should do some background check.

BTW – unless you fly for living or fly at least 50,000 miles/year, don’t spew some crap about airport security cuz it’s not your life on the line, but others’.

Thank you Stella for echoing my sentiments.
I travel to europe, Mid East and latin America 3 weeks out of every month and 1 week to calif. I too feel safe when I see the TSA agents in action.

If your on one of my flights, sit back and relax - Flight Attendant T-man is on board.

I agree w/ doggie on this also…pat you although can’t have my info… I don’t fly on your airplanes… I all for airline secuirity…

Eventhough, I didn’t work that day on 9/11 in the city… I felt the pain and suffering that my co-workers might have gone through…

Unless you are afriad of them find something about you pat I see no problem in them doing a backround check before you get on a plane…

This should have be done along time ago. A lot innocent live would have been saved… By the way go this web site to remember what happen on 9-11 How quickly we forget…

Xavier,

You’re very welcome! :slight_smile:

And damn it, you work for American! I fly United cuz I fly out of IAD, which is their hub. :frowning: Ah, well…maybe when I get a chance (i.e. fly out of O’Hare or something… :slight_smile:

BTW – T-man flight attendant must rock. I like having male flight attendants than female cuz generally, I get better service from men. wink

What an incredible display of narrow-mindedness here. What I read that if I am some government official sitting behind some desk somewhere, I can lay down any rule or restriction on you violate any amount of your freedom guaranteed to you by the Constitution and as long as I say it is for your security you’ll eat it up.

This is dumb thinking. You have to consider the potential repercussions here and also understand that it does nothing to guarantee your safety in any way shape of form. First, you are giving all your private information to some $25k a year ticket counter agent. So, they know everything about you,(Ex. how many divorces you've had, problem with your creditors, religion, etc. Anything affiliated with your SSN which basically has your whole history) and you know nothing about them. The potential for abuse at this point is incredible because you get one crooked ticket agent who uses your information for his personal gain, then you are fucked. Your credit is toast as well as your background because there is no telling what that person can do in your name. That is just the beginning, you are basically giving you very private information to many people who can use it against you or for their personal gain. You also have no control as to who can get this info, you don't know how many eyes will be on you personal shit. This information is private for a reason, the abuse potential is incredible. That's why you never give your fucking SSN over the phone, the potential for abuse is very high. And that is if the government itself is completely honest and you ought to know better than that. Who's going to protect your credit and good name when your not flying? We're good folks, but not that good. I knew a guy who had his identity stolen once, The suffering was incredible, clearing his name took eight years and $20K +.

Second, question I don't see being asked is how in the hell is this going to help stop air terror? You have to think like a terrorist for a minute. If you are going to the airport to do something nasty, are you going to do it with your real identity knowing that it can draw suspicion? No, you will have a squeaky clean identity giving you the "green" light to fly. And that's one way. If they are well organized the ticket agent will be a terrorist too and make things that much easier. Also, this system will only affect U.S. citizens or resident aliens. If you are here on vacation, a work visa, or temporary residence, you are from another country and you don't have a SSN, then you effectively don't have a background to check. What are they going to do, not let them fly? Again, major flaw in the plan.

Lastly, seeing 9/11 up close and personal has nothing to do with whether or not background and credit checks are the right thing to do. Those terrorist got on those planes with out violating a single solitary law until they hijacked the plane. If they did a background check on those guys, they would have been clean because this one event is what they did wrong, they weren't troublemakers up to this point. So this "security" measure wouldn't have helped.

When are people going to realize that most of these "security" measures are a load of crap. If you are an intelligent terrorist, none of this is going to stop you. You just have to modify your plans. Also America is full of soft targets for a terrorist. There are at least a million ways to kill a bunch of people and simultaneously devastate our economy, they don't have to get on an airplane to do it. Justifying privacy intrusions in name of security is just plain stupid. All it does is make individuals more vulnerable to potential abuse than is does keeping the sky's safer. Who is going to protect you if your private information gets hijacked for purposes of evil? A line has to drawn somewhere. The argument "If you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to worry about" is a slippery slope. You can use that argument to justify anything up to even putting cameras in your house and car, 'cause if you ain't doing anything wrong than you should have nothing to worry about. Our ancestors came here to start a new nation because they were suffering from the same kind of thing in their homelands. Now we want to do it here and it is ok with most of you. You need to wake up. Yall freaked out about ephadrine, but you don't care about your privacy.

stella - it’s no coincidence my favorite saying in WELCOME ABOARD!!

Stella, you act as if I had no effect from those attacks, my powerlifting coach whom I was very good friend with died in the pentagon ,his body was never found left a wife a daughter and my age and a young son behind.

My point was that the it seems the GOVT is Making convienient excuses of "terrorist activity this , terrorist activty that to take away all of our liberties and some of the shit has absolutley nothing to do with terrorism, its just a convienient way for them to pass a “sleeper” bill that would never pass on its own, but since they can connect that supplement your putting in your mouth to terrosit activity its bad,there gonna fund more terrorist by getting rid of it. What I am saying is that they GOVT is making a mockery of the people that died by using their deaths as an example to pass bills that have no relation to the 9/11 or terrorist attacks. They are making a mockery of all those people that died by using there deaths as the purpose to pass this and that bill when all it is is propaganda just to get a name for themselves not to actually help us, or stop attacks from happening again. Yes the sirplane person thing is related to it, but gradually over time so many of our liberties have been taken away one by one in the name of 9/11 just to fatten politicains pockets not to actually help us.

PUgs

Rock on pat I totaly agree!

Pugs

if a guy calls a girl a bitch out of anger, it is generally his own insecurity of being rejected and not getting what he wants, as if the girl “owes” him something… if a guy refers to a girl as a bitch in a conversation, he also me be referring to a girl that takes shit, gives up, easily dominated… of course, most of the bitchiest meanest femmes out there are the most easily dominated by their boyfriends… as for soul mates, its all in your head. your soul mate is whoever you choose to make your soul mate… the greatest quote i ever read dealing with relationships: “love is an action, not a feeling”… what you get out of a relationship depends greatly on what you put into it… the rest comes from the type of person youre dating… it doesnt take much to make a girls day… ive been dating one girl on and off for 3 years, and our relationship was shit until we both realized this… and now we get in a fight maybe once every 6 weeks, if that, were both happier with ourselves and eachother, and life just got better, cause we chose to make it that way… is she my soul mate? probably not, but she is who i choose to be with

Pat,

Please do yourself and the rest of us a favor. Post the CAPPS II. Then we can read it and determine weither or not “they” have gone too far.
A long time ago, I learned to read the source material.

Best of Luck.