Capitalism: A Love Story

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
The reason why the rich are better at working the system is because the system itself is constructed to benefit them at the expense of the poor.

So these rich people don’t depend on poor people to mow their lawns and stuff?

You’re a pretty simple fella, ain’tcha?

You make is sound like these rich people do not pay wages.

It is actually government that enslaves people if you have ever paid attention to history lessons…? but yes, they definitely want you to believe it is rich business men with all the power just so it takes all the heat off of them.

Don’t look now but those evil capitalists are at it again with all their interwebz and high-rise buildings and stuff!!![/quote]

Dude, you should read Marx. The poor are paid by the rich in low wages. The poor then use these wages to buy food, clothes, rent, for their family. Who sells these products? The rich, thus making them profits. The poor then have to work more for the same money.

Thus the saying, “The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.”

You tell me to read a history book, but this system has been with us since the dawn of civilization.

22

[quote]dtheyer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
The reason why the rich are better at working the system is because the system itself is constructed to benefit them at the expense of the poor.

So these rich people don’t depend on poor people to mow their lawns and stuff?

You’re a pretty simple fella, ain’tcha?

You make is sound like these rich people do not pay wages.

It is actually government that enslaves people if you have ever paid attention to history lessons…? but yes, they definitely want you to believe it is rich business men with all the power just so it takes all the heat off of them.

Don’t look now but those evil capitalists are at it again with all their interwebz and high-rise buildings and stuff!!!

Dude, you should read Marx. The poor are paid by the rich in low wages. The poor then use these wages to buy food, clothes, rent, for their family. Who sells these products? The rich, thus making them profits. The poor then have to work more for the same money.

Thus the saying, “The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.”

You tell me to read a history book, but this system has been with us since the dawn of civilization.[/quote]

Nope! Only since the dawn of the State.

You make a blanket statement like the rich take advantage of the poor but yet you cannot even give me one real example of a specific rich person or specific poor person…? Sounds indeed like you are reading right out of Marx.

Marx invented his own history of “class struggle” but he neglected that all classes are a product of the State.

In a free society – i.e., in the absence of coercive authority – every man is free to make choices and can therefor choose the class he belongs to with his own actions. Marx basically told everyone who is poor that he must remain poor and will never pull himself out of poverty with out the state’s help. He enslaved people with his ideas more than any businessman has ever done in history.

In fact only slave traders were worse – but they brought gifts for the state – free labor, and thus won legitimacy.

23

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
The reason why the rich are better at working the system is because the system itself is constructed to benefit them at the expense of the poor.

So these rich people don’t depend on poor people to mow their lawns and stuff?

You’re a pretty simple fella, ain’tcha?

You make is sound like these rich people do not pay wages.

It is actually government that enslaves people if you have ever paid attention to history lessons…? but yes, they definitely want you to believe it is rich business men with all the power just so it takes all the heat off of them.

Don’t look now but those evil capitalists are at it again with all their interwebz and high-rise buildings and stuff!!!

Dude, you should read Marx. The poor are paid by the rich in low wages. The poor then use these wages to buy food, clothes, rent, for their family. Who sells these products? The rich, thus making them profits. The poor then have to work more for the same money.

Thus the saying, “The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.”

You tell me to read a history book, but this system has been with us since the dawn of civilization.

Nope! Only since the dawn of the State.

You make a blanket statement like the rich take advantage of the poor but yet you cannot even give me one real example of a specific rich person or specific poor person…? Sounds indeed like you are reading right out of Marx.

Marx invented his own history of “class struggle” but he neglected that all classes are a product of the State.

In a free society – i.e., in the absence of coercive authority – every man is free to make choices and can therefor choose the class he belongs to with his own actions. Marx basically told everyone who is poor that he must remain poor and will never pull himself out of poverty with out the state’s help. He enslaved people with his ideas more than any businessman has ever done in history.

In fact only slave traders were worse – but they brought gifts for the state – free labor, and thus won legitimacy.[/quote]

Or perhaps the state was created to serve the benefit the rich?

24

[quote]dtheyer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
The reason why the rich are better at working the system is because the system itself is constructed to benefit them at the expense of the poor.

So these rich people don’t depend on poor people to mow their lawns and stuff?

You’re a pretty simple fella, ain’tcha?

You make is sound like these rich people do not pay wages.

It is actually government that enslaves people if you have ever paid attention to history lessons…? but yes, they definitely want you to believe it is rich business men with all the power just so it takes all the heat off of them.

Don’t look now but those evil capitalists are at it again with all their interwebz and high-rise buildings and stuff!!!

Dude, you should read Marx. The poor are paid by the rich in low wages. The poor then use these wages to buy food, clothes, rent, for their family. Who sells these products? The rich, thus making them profits. The poor then have to work more for the same money.

Thus the saying, “The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.”

You tell me to read a history book, but this system has been with us since the dawn of civilization.

Nope! Only since the dawn of the State.

You make a blanket statement like the rich take advantage of the poor but yet you cannot even give me one real example of a specific rich person or specific poor person…? Sounds indeed like you are reading right out of Marx.

Marx invented his own history of “class struggle” but he neglected that all classes are a product of the State.

In a free society – i.e., in the absence of coercive authority – every man is free to make choices and can therefor choose the class he belongs to with his own actions. Marx basically told everyone who is poor that he must remain poor and will never pull himself out of poverty with out the state’s help. He enslaved people with his ideas more than any businessman has ever done in history.

In fact only slave traders were worse – but they brought gifts for the state – free labor, and thus won legitimacy.

Or perhaps the state was created to serve the benefit the rich?
[/quote]

Yes. But I cannot for one instance blame every rich person for using the system as it exists today – it’s like blaming a heroine addict for using a methadone clinic.

Just get rid of the methadone clinics and eventually people will be back to normal after some short term pain. Those of us who are not addicts can be free to live our lives without the junkies ruining everything. I think this analogy works well.

25

[quote]dtheyer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
The reason why the rich are better at working the system is because the system itself is constructed to benefit them at the expense of the poor.

So these rich people don’t depend on poor people to mow their lawns and stuff?

You’re a pretty simple fella, ain’tcha?

You make is sound like these rich people do not pay wages.

It is actually government that enslaves people if you have ever paid attention to history lessons…? but yes, they definitely want you to believe it is rich business men with all the power just so it takes all the heat off of them.

Don’t look now but those evil capitalists are at it again with all their interwebz and high-rise buildings and stuff!!!

Dude, you should read Marx. The poor are paid by the rich in low wages. The poor then use these wages to buy food, clothes, rent, for their family. Who sells these products? The rich, thus making them profits. The poor then have to work more for the same money.

Thus the saying, “The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.”

You tell me to read a history book, but this system has been with us since the dawn of civilization.[/quote]

Are you not a little bit ashamed of packing so many fallacies in such a tiny space?

And why would you read Marx if you are neither interested in history nor economics?

Do you know that poor people are FAT these days?

Live twice as long as 100 years ago?

Have color tv and cars?

Indoor plumbing, cells phones, and vegimite!

Vegimite I say!

Kings could not have vegemite 100 years ago!

26

[quote]dtheyer wrote:

Or perhaps the state was created to serve the benefit the rich?
[/quote]

Mebbe.

And yet you want it bigger?

27

[quote]Unaware wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I agree with every one that is not capitalism that is the way the Republicans have stacked the deck for the wealthy.

Its the way government stacks the deck in favor of its friends.[/quote]

I agree

28

[quote]Unaware wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
Unaware wrote:
orion wrote:
Unaware wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I agree with every one that is not capitalism that is the way the Republicans have stacked the deck for the wealthy.

Its the way government stacks the deck in favor of its friends.

It strange that people actually want government have the power to steal and then are flabbergasted when it does.

Yes, the rich are better at working the system, one of the reasons why they are rich in a mixed economy.

It is strange indeed. I guess blue must just be a more honest colour than red.

Remind me again who wants the Government to steal?

The reason why the rich are better at working the system is because the system itself is constructed to benefit them at the expense of the poor.

You are putting the cart before the horse.

I assume no one wants the government to steal - at least not from themselves. Problem is most people can’t see the theft.
[/quote]

The rich can afford lobbiest and flat out bribery

29

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Unaware wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
Unaware wrote:
orion wrote:
Unaware wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I agree with every one that is not capitalism that is the way the Republicans have stacked the deck for the wealthy.

Its the way government stacks the deck in favor of its friends.

It strange that people actually want government have the power to steal and then are flabbergasted when it does.

Yes, the rich are better at working the system, one of the reasons why they are rich in a mixed economy.

It is strange indeed. I guess blue must just be a more honest colour than red.

Remind me again who wants the Government to steal?

The reason why the rich are better at working the system is because the system itself is constructed to benefit them at the expense of the poor.

You are putting the cart before the horse.

I assume no one wants the government to steal - at least not from themselves. Problem is most people can’t see the theft.

The rich can afford lobbiest and flat out bribery[/quote]

So can teacher and labor unions.

30

[quote]orion wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Unaware wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
Unaware wrote:
orion wrote:
Unaware wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I agree with every one that is not capitalism that is the way the Republicans have stacked the deck for the wealthy.

Its the way government stacks the deck in favor of its friends.

It strange that people actually want government have the power to steal and then are flabbergasted when it does.

Yes, the rich are better at working the system, one of the reasons why they are rich in a mixed economy.

It is strange indeed. I guess blue must just be a more honest colour than red.

Remind me again who wants the Government to steal?

The reason why the rich are better at working the system is because the system itself is constructed to benefit them at the expense of the poor.

You are putting the cart before the horse.

I assume no one wants the government to steal - at least not from themselves. Problem is most people can’t see the theft.

The rich can afford lobbiest and flat out bribery

So can teacher and labor unions.
[/quote]

You and I see the need for labor and teacher unions, my wife is a retired Teacher, the teacher union needs a set of testicles, the down side to a strong union is they are counter productive. Too bad there was not a way to reach a happy medium.

31

Angry chicken gets the award for best post in thread so far. Nice entry. Your post is one of the reasons I get so frustrated with the stuff that pittbull and the like throw out about “how the Republicans stacked the deck”, or how it’s unfair that the rich are so…rich.

32

karl marx is pretty cool now a days

33

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
No country has ever had pure capitalism… Just like there has never been pure communism. Both are great on paper but they need their checks and balances.

Technically, capitalism is by definition a system of checks, while socialism actually requires the absence of checks.[/quote]

As usual, you’re totally wrong. Socialism itself IS a check, by not allowing excess power to be consolidated in small groups. Unlike capitalism, which inevitably tends toward such concentration.

34

[quote]orion wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
The reason why the rich are better at working the system is because the system itself is constructed to benefit them at the expense of the poor.

So these rich people don’t depend on poor people to mow their lawns and stuff?

You’re a pretty simple fella, ain’tcha?

You make is sound like these rich people do not pay wages.

It is actually government that enslaves people if you have ever paid attention to history lessons…? but yes, they definitely want you to believe it is rich business men with all the power just so it takes all the heat off of them.

Don’t look now but those evil capitalists are at it again with all their interwebz and high-rise buildings and stuff!!!

Dude, you should read Marx. The poor are paid by the rich in low wages. The poor then use these wages to buy food, clothes, rent, for their family. Who sells these products? The rich, thus making them profits. The poor then have to work more for the same money.

Thus the saying, “The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.”

You tell me to read a history book, but this system has been with us since the dawn of civilization.

Are you not a little bit ashamed of packing so many fallacies in such a tiny space?

And why would you read Marx if you are neither interested in history nor economics?

Do you know that poor people are FAT these days?

Live twice as long as 100 years ago?

Have color tv and cars?

Indoor plumbing, cells phones, and vegimite!

Vegimite I say!

Kings could not have vegemite 100 years ago!

[/quote]

You AGAIN repeat this fallacy of looking for results of a global system in ONE country. If two objects strike each other, they have a certain momentum. If after the collision, you only consider one, it will appear as if conservation of momentum has been violated, when really it’s just that you’re not looking at the whole system.

35

What’s the difference?

36

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
You AGAIN repeat this fallacy of looking for results of a global system in ONE country. If two objects strike each other, they have a certain momentum. If after the collision, you only consider one, it will appear as if conservation of momentum has been violated, when really it’s just that you’re not looking at the whole system.[/quote]

Beautiful troll job, comrade!

37

“The underprivileged people in West Philadelphia donâ??t comprehend that politicians and bankers are actually keeping them entrapped in poverty by providing them with easy credit and persuading them that making perpetual payments for cars, TVs, and other material goods is a normal lifestyle. When reality sets in and these people stop making their payments, no trouble for them. As the financial system came crashing down due to the millions of bad loans made by the banking cartel, their protectors Hank (Goldman) Paulson and Ben (Helicopter) Bernanke funneled TRILLIONS of your tax dollars and your childrenâ??s tax dollars and their childrenâ??s tax dollars to the banks that committed these crimes. The poor people in West Philly donâ??t pay taxes, so they got to drive BMWs and watch 52 inch TVs for awhile, and are left relatively unscathed. The middle class is paying the bill, losing millions of jobs, while seeing their 401ks drop by 40% and they are still driving their 10 year old cars. Government now wants you to pay more so the poor will have health insurance when they get injured in a BMW accident.”
— James Quinn

All those Washington people sold us ‘down the river’ to protect bankers from the consequences of their actions.

38

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:It is actually government that enslaves people if you have ever paid attention to history lessons…? but yes, they definitely want you to believe it is rich business men with all the power just so it takes all the heat off of them.

What’s the difference?
[/quote]

I choose to be enslaved by Microsoft Corporation.

I do not choose to be enslaved by the likes of Nancy Pelosi and her ilk.

It is a simple matter of whether I get a choice or not. And therein lies the essence of Capitalism and why it RULZ! and why Socialism SUCKS! Socialism is the essence of having no choice at all. No person with a reasoning brain would choose Socialism if he could be made to understand this fact.

Even your hero Michael Moore is a hypocrite because he has no shame in using the riches brought about by capitalism to make his movie to slander capitalism. I hope he is at least honest to his viewers about this fact.

39

[quote]dtheyer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
The reason why the rich are better at working the system is because the system itself is constructed to benefit them at the expense of the poor.

So these rich people don’t depend on poor people to mow their lawns and stuff?

You’re a pretty simple fella, ain’tcha?

You make is sound like these rich people do not pay wages.

It is actually government that enslaves people if you have ever paid attention to history lessons…? but yes, they definitely want you to believe it is rich business men with all the power just so it takes all the heat off of them.

Don’t look now but those evil capitalists are at it again with all their interwebz and high-rise buildings and stuff!!!

Dude, you should read Marx. The poor are paid by the rich in low wages. The poor then use these wages to buy food, clothes, rent, for their family. Who sells these products? The rich, thus making them profits. The poor then have to work more for the same money.

Thus the saying, “The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.”

You tell me to read a history book, but this system has been with us since the dawn of civilization.

Nope! Only since the dawn of the State.

You make a blanket statement like the rich take advantage of the poor but yet you cannot even give me one real example of a specific rich person or specific poor person…? Sounds indeed like you are reading right out of Marx.

Marx invented his own history of “class struggle” but he neglected that all classes are a product of the State.

In a free society – i.e., in the absence of coercive authority – every man is free to make choices and can therefor choose the class he belongs to with his own actions. Marx basically told everyone who is poor that he must remain poor and will never pull himself out of poverty with out the state’s help. He enslaved people with his ideas more than any businessman has ever done in history.

In fact only slave traders were worse – but they brought gifts for the state – free labor, and thus won legitimacy.

Or perhaps the state was created to serve the benefit the rich?
[/quote]

would you prefer anarchy?

40

[quote]kodiak82 wrote:
would you prefer anarchy?[/quote]

yes