T Nation

Can't Lift But Need to Cut

This is my first thread, but I have been reading a lot of T-Nation and really enjoy it. I read Thib’s The Truth About Bulking article (the first article that I’ve read on T-Nation) and it made a ton of sense as to why I have not been progressing as much.

I am between just under (some days, I am a little over) 20% bodyfat. For the past few weeks, I have been on The Anabolic Diet. I basically just ate tons of fat and protein and avoided carbs – it was similar to an all out binge. I still got a little leaner from that, but now I need to get even more serious beause the weight loss from doing that has stopped.

I need to cut and did not keep track of what or how much I was eating because you’re not supposed to worry about it when you’re trying to become fat adapted. My fear is over dieting.

My real goal is to lose 4+ pounds of fat a week, but that apparantly isn’t too realistic. Also, due to a shoulder problem, I cannot weight train at the moment. I can still diet and do cardio. Note: I have not lost any lean body mass.

Here are my questions:

  1. What kind of cardio should I do while eating like this?

People say low intensity, but I don’t feel as if I am doing anything by walking or a light jog. I always feel the HIIT stuff, but I fear burning muscle.

  1. Because of not lifting weights, I am not having much of a carb up at all. This weekend, my carbs were: 3 clementines, 2 cups of milk, 9 carbs from a protein powder, and a hamburger bun. Any thoughts on this?

  2. How much water should I drink per day?

  3. Are there any sample diets (for the anabolic diet) that people can link me to? I can find the food to eat, but can’t find actual sample diets.

  4. Would doing The Maximum Cleanse be beneficial for weight loss and future and current protein absorption?

My goal is to get to 10% (ideally 6-8%) and then go into a “maximum growth phase” (bulk).

I appreciate everyone’s help.

look up the “experience on the anabolic diet” thread for all your answers to the anabolic diet. Its the biggest thread on the forums and contains a ton of info and experience.

As for short Rx’s I’d say:

Keep your low carb days very clean but big. Lots of veggies and meat. few milk products and cheeses, use olive oil, fish oil, fish and avocados to get those polys and mono’s up. get the nuts in too but drop the peanut based butters and nuts. stick to the almonds and filberts.

DO your carb ups but do them clean and controlled. Eat only oats, beans, brown rice, fruit and veggies. Work out how much you need in the way of carbs [about 400-500g usually] and meet it but dont exceed.

Maybe cut the carb load down to one day per week AFTER you’ve been on AD for about 2 months. even so this is not recommended if you are still losing fat and maintaining strength.

Only have a carb day “abortion” once every 2-3 weeks. by abortion i mean eating tons of sugary cereal and pie/cake/ice cream. And only 1 meal or 2 hours of it during those 2-3 week points.

dont carb up if you dont train.

Begin training. why cant you lift? find a way to start.

Do what ever kind of cardio you like. I like skipping, boxing, rugby, jumping, riding my adult-size big wheel and wrestling. pick your favorite one and go. MAybe just sprint some football feilds 2-3 times a week. who cares so long as you are getting good training. run stairs or something.

Doing anything labelled as a cleanse would be the dumbest shit ever. dumber than the shit that would surely be flying out your ass and shattering your toilet bowl. oo bad all your important digestive culture and enzymes would go for a swim with it.

I reiterate, begin lifting and stay consistent on any program.

good luck shooting sir, see you in the AD thread i hope.

-chris

[quote]Loui.s wrote:
I need to cut and did not keep track of what or how much I was eating because you’re not supposed to worry about it when you’re trying to become fat adapted. My fear is over dieting.[/quote]

keep track of weight after 14 days of straight low carbing

[quote]
My real goal is to lose 4+ pounds of fat a week, but that apparantly isn’t too realistic. Also, due to a shoulder problem, I cannot weight train at the moment. I can still diet and do cardio. Note: I have not lost any lean body mass.[/quote]

Very unrealistic. 2lbs a week MAX, if you are weight training. If not I would adjust it downward to maybe 1 or less than 1. Weightraining is necessary to maintain muscular tissue. You will lose lean body mass if you drop calories significantly without lifting. Find a way to weight train. Use the smith, one handed stuff, light rehab stuff. Layne Norton squatted 4 plates on the smith with a pec tear and his arm in a sling. You can too.

[quote]

Here are my questions:

  1. What kind of cardio should I do while eating like this?

People say low intensity, but I don’t feel as if I am doing anything by walking or a light jog. I always feel the HIIT stuff, but I fear burning muscle. [/quote]

doesn’t really matter. Cardio is just a way of expending calories.

[quote]
2. Because of not lifting weights, I am not having much of a carb up at all. This weekend, my carbs were: 3 clementines, 2 cups of milk, 9 carbs from a protein powder, and a hamburger bun. Any thoughts on this?[/quote]

Again, find a way to lift. I don’t know how fitting this is for a cardio based workout only

[quote]
3. How much water should I drink per day?[/quote]

No hard and fast rules hear. I consume maybe a gallon of fluids a day, 2L being water.

[quote]
4. Are there any sample diets (for the anabolic diet) that people can link me to? I can find the food to eat, but can’t find actual sample diets. [/quote]

Refer to the Anabolic Solution by Dr. Mauro DiPasquale

[quote]
5. Would doing The Maximum Cleanse be beneficial for weight loss and future and current protein absorption?[/quote]

Doesn’t matter

[quote]
My goal is to get to 10% (ideally 6-8%) and then go into a “maximum growth phase” (bulk).

I appreciate everyone’s help.[/quote]

What are your stats? Height/Weight/Lifts/Training experience etc. etc.

Furthermore, if you are doing the Anabolic Diet, I seriously advise you to lift. If you have read the book (I really hope you have before starting this diet), its stressed time and time again that this must be used in tandem with a weight training program. Its designed with the weight training individual in mind.

[quote]Invictica wrote:
Loui.s wrote:
I need to cut and did not keep track of what or how much I was eating because you’re not supposed to worry about it when you’re trying to become fat adapted. My fear is over dieting.

keep track of weight after 14 days of straight low carbing

My real goal is to lose 4+ pounds of fat a week, but that apparantly isn’t too realistic. Also, due to a shoulder problem, I cannot weight train at the moment. I can still diet and do cardio. Note: I have not lost any lean body mass.

Very unrealistic. 2lbs a week MAX, if you are weight training. If not I would adjust it downward to maybe 1 or less than 1. Weightraining is necessary to maintain muscular tissue. You will lose lean body mass if you drop calories significantly without lifting. Find a way to weight train. Use the smith, one handed stuff, light rehab stuff. Layne Norton squatted 4 plates on the smith with a pec tear and his arm in a sling. You can too.

Here are my questions:

  1. What kind of cardio should I do while eating like this?

People say low intensity, but I don’t feel as if I am doing anything by walking or a light jog. I always feel the HIIT stuff, but I fear burning muscle.

doesn’t really matter. Cardio is just a way of expending calories.

  1. Because of not lifting weights, I am not having much of a carb up at all. This weekend, my carbs were: 3 clementines, 2 cups of milk, 9 carbs from a protein powder, and a hamburger bun. Any thoughts on this?

Again, find a way to lift. I don’t know how fitting this is for a cardio based workout only

  1. How much water should I drink per day?

No hard and fast rules hear. I consume maybe a gallon of fluids a day, 2L being water.

  1. Are there any sample diets (for the anabolic diet) that people can link me to? I can find the food to eat, but can’t find actual sample diets.

Refer to the Anabolic Solution by Dr. Mauro DiPasquale

  1. Would doing The Maximum Cleanse be beneficial for weight loss and future and current protein absorption?

Doesn’t matter

My goal is to get to 10% (ideally 6-8%) and then go into a “maximum growth phase” (bulk).

I appreciate everyone’s help.

What are your stats? Height/Weight/Lifts/Training experience etc. etc.

Furthermore, if you are doing the Anabolic Diet, I seriously advise you to lift. If you have read the book (I really hope you have before starting this diet), its stressed time and time again that this must be used in tandem with a weight training program. Its designed with the weight training individual in mind.
[/quote]

Stats: Weight as of today:

166.4 pounds, 21.6% bodyfat (it can be due to the small weekend carb up).

I’ve been training for 1.5 years. Before you say “just eat,” “you need more size,” or “you should have progressed more,” understand that a good portion of that time I was trying to lose weight (I was a FFB and still technically am). I fell victim to some of the bodybuilding fads out there and while I did make progress, I am much smarter now than before.

My ultimate goal is to be a bodybuilder, but this seems like a time where I need to shed the fat in order to really make progress in the long term.

I want to lift, but am unsure of what approach to take because of:

  1. shoulder problem,
  2. low carbohydrate diet, and
  3. If I lift lighter weights, I feel that I’d lose muscle memory; just how lifting light weight for a lot of reps was a flawed concept for getting cut. I am not sure that “doing something over nothing” works with bodybuilding like it would with other goals.

[quote]Invictica wrote:

My real goal is to lose 4+ pounds of fat a week, but that apparantly isn’t too realistic. Also, due to a shoulder problem, I cannot weight train at the moment. I can still diet and do cardio. Note: I have not lost any lean body mass.

Very unrealistic. 2lbs a week MAX, if you are weight training. If not I would adjust it downward to maybe 1 or less than 1. Weightraining is necessary to maintain muscular tissue. You will lose lean body mass if you drop calories significantly without lifting.

Find a way to weight train. Use the smith, one handed stuff, light rehab stuff. Layne Norton squatted 4 plates on the smith with a pec tear and his arm in a sling. You can too.

[/quote]

Are you for real? “2lbs a week max”??? Says who!??! Its bullshit. I just finished a 4 week cut and lost 14lbs, wait thats 3.5lbs a week, impossible according to you?? And this was while at least maintaining strength, increasing it on some lifts.

You can’t put a number on weightloss, it will happen as your genes dictate given your energy input/output. ie, you set your body into a calorific deficit through diet and training, and fat will fall off accordingly.

[quote]Loui.s wrote:
Invictica wrote:

Stats: Weight as of today:

166.4 pounds, 21.6% bodyfat (it can be due to the small weekend carb up).

I’ve been training for 1.5 years. Before you say “just eat,” “you need more size,” or “you should have progressed more,” understand that a good portion of that time I was trying to lose weight (I was a FFB and still technically am). I fell victim to some of the bodybuilding fads out there and while I did make progress, I am much smarter now than before.

My ultimate goal is to be a bodybuilder, but this seems like a time where I need to shed the fat in order to really make progress in the long term.

I want to lift, but am unsure of what approach to take because of:

  1. shoulder problem,
  2. low carbohydrate diet, and
  3. If I lift lighter weights, I feel that I’d lose muscle memory; just how lifting light weight for a lot of reps was a flawed concept for getting cut. I am not sure that “doing something over nothing” works with bodybuilding like it would with other goals.[/quote]

Dude, don’t take this as me ripping on you, but I’m starting to get a nervous twitch just reading your posts.

First, if you aren’t going to be lifting (for whatever reason)–doing this specialized diet is dumb. Doing any kind of calorie restriction is dumb.

Anyway, to respond to your bullets–
1)Find a way to lift around your injuriy. Most people will get injured somewhere in their lifting career. You train however you can.

2)I already told you what I think about this diet.

3)Dude, you weigh 166 at around 20% bodyfat! What muscle memory?

[quote]jb413 wrote:
Invictica wrote:

My real goal is to lose 4+ pounds of fat a week, but that apparantly isn’t too realistic. Also, due to a shoulder problem, I cannot weight train at the moment. I can still diet and do cardio. Note: I have not lost any lean body mass.

Very unrealistic. 2lbs a week MAX, if you are weight training. If not I would adjust it downward to maybe 1 or less than 1. Weightraining is necessary to maintain muscular tissue. You will lose lean body mass if you drop calories significantly without lifting.

Find a way to weight train. Use the smith, one handed stuff, light rehab stuff. Layne Norton squatted 4 plates on the smith with a pec tear and his arm in a sling. You can too.

Are you for real? “2lbs a week max”??? Says who!??! Its bullshit. I just finished a 4 week cut and lost 14lbs, wait thats 3.5lbs a week, impossible according to you?? And this was while at least maintaining strength, increasing it on some lifts.

You can’t put a number on weightloss, it will happen as your genes dictate given your energy input/output. ie, you set your body into a calorific deficit through diet and training, and fat will fall off accordingly.
[/quote]

What you lost wasn’t all fat, most likely. Boy.

Loui.s,

SQUATS.

Wipes me out every time. You definitely don’t want to cut out leg day.

I am doing the Cyclical Ketogenic Diet and it is working well. I am not doing cardio at all, as I don’t want to eat muscle. I just do a 30 minute fasted walk before breakfast, as this should burn fat, as long as it is at a low intensity (25-50% VO2 max). I also keep workouts to 45 minutes or less to avoid going catabolic.

You really need to talk to someone with a rehab background who can design a safe upper body routine for you until you heal. Not sure about the muscle-memory thing, maybe someone more experienced will chime in on that one.

Avocado, why do you recommend limiting milk and cheeses? I’ve heard that milk can spike insulin, so I switched to goat yogurt, which has less than half the effect according to the glycemic index, but what about cheese?

I am a vegetarian (let the ragging begin) so it is a bit more difficult to go low carb and still get enough protein. A large chunk of cheddar has been a daily food for me, so I would like to know of any negative effects.

What a load of crap. I can;t believe people are even responding to this BS. Are you even aware how many of us are battling serious shoulder injuries, have had multiple shoulder/lower back surgeries and popping tylenol to keep the pain at bay while we set PR’s?

You’re 166 pounds and want to get down to 10% without lifting because of a “shoulder problem” and “unure about what approach to take” and “anabolic diet”.

Are you even for real? And the first article you DO read on this site is “the truth about bulking”?

Please go away.

At some point while jotting these down, did you even consider we’re dealing with a retard or a troll.
Why do people like the OP post on bodybuilding websites anwyay?

[quote]Itchy wrote:
Anyway, to respond to your bullets–
1)Find a way to lift around your injuriy. Most people will get injured somewhere in their lifting career. You train however you can.

2)I already told you what I think about this diet.

3)Dude, you weigh 166 at around 20% bodyfat! What muscle memory? [/quote]

You have approximately 130 lbs of lean mass, and want to cut without lifting while losing 2 lbs a week, but hoping for 4.

You do not need to cut. At 130 lbs lean body mass with 36 lbs of fat you are outside the “bulk/cut” continuum, unless you happen to be under 5 feet tall. If you see to it that you are getting enough protein and then lift with intensity, your body composition will improve dramatically without sweating the details too much, or at least that’s been my observation in similar cases.

Squats and milk. Make sure you’re getting a minimum of 166g protein per day. I know what you mean about ‘not feeling the cardio’ when you’re walking, but you’d be surprised how much a little extra walking can impact progress.

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
At some point while jotting these down, did you even consider we’re dealing with a retard or a troll.
Why do people like the OP post on bodybuilding websites anwyay?

[/quote]

haha, last time I called troll on someone, you told me he was just ‘misguided’ so I decided to give this one the benefit of the doubt. Honestly though, what’s with the influx of tiny wee people looking to cut to a shredded 122 lbs around here lately? Is there a new movie out I haven’t heard about? Last time I saw this many ‘they must be trolls’ was around when 300 came out.

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
At some point while jotting these down, did you even consider we’re dealing with a retard or a troll.
Why do people like the OP post on bodybuilding websites anwyay?

Itchy wrote:
Anyway, to respond to your bullets–
1)Find a way to lift around your injuriy. Most people will get injured somewhere in their lifting career. You train however you can.

2)I already told you what I think about this diet.

3)Dude, you weigh 166 at around 20% bodyfat! What muscle memory?

[/quote]

I considered it, yes, and responded anyway.

OP-

I’m sending you a bill for a new keyboard and a doctor visit because I’ve been smashing my head against my keyboard after reading your post.

Is that a new profile pic SteelyD? To OP how did you get to 20% BF at 166pounds?

166 pounds and CUTTING?? Without LIFTING?? What are you doing HERE???

[quote]blaque.ops wrote:
Is that a new profile pic SteelyD?[/quote]

Yep. I need to work on my traps, eh? (… and my arms, and my chest, and my back, and my legs, and…)

[quote]Loui.s wrote:
Invictica wrote:
Loui.s wrote:
I need to cut and did not keep track of what or how much I was eating because you’re not supposed to worry about it when you’re trying to become fat adapted. My fear is over dieting.

keep track of weight after 14 days of straight low carbing

My real goal is to lose 4+ pounds of fat a week, but that apparantly isn’t too realistic. Also, due to a shoulder problem, I cannot weight train at the moment. I can still diet and do cardio. Note: I have not lost any lean body mass.

Very unrealistic. 2lbs a week MAX, if you are weight training. If not I would adjust it downward to maybe 1 or less than 1. Weightraining is necessary to maintain muscular tissue. You will lose lean body mass if you drop calories significantly without lifting. Find a way to weight train. Use the smith, one handed stuff, light rehab stuff. Layne Norton squatted 4 plates on the smith with a pec tear and his arm in a sling. You can too.

Here are my questions:

  1. What kind of cardio should I do while eating like this?

People say low intensity, but I don’t feel as if I am doing anything by walking or a light jog. I always feel the HIIT stuff, but I fear burning muscle.

doesn’t really matter. Cardio is just a way of expending calories.

  1. Because of not lifting weights, I am not having much of a carb up at all. This weekend, my carbs were: 3 clementines, 2 cups of milk, 9 carbs from a protein powder, and a hamburger bun. Any thoughts on this?

Again, find a way to lift. I don’t know how fitting this is for a cardio based workout only

  1. How much water should I drink per day?

No hard and fast rules hear. I consume maybe a gallon of fluids a day, 2L being water.

  1. Are there any sample diets (for the anabolic diet) that people can link me to? I can find the food to eat, but can’t find actual sample diets.

Refer to the Anabolic Solution by Dr. Mauro DiPasquale

  1. Would doing The Maximum Cleanse be beneficial for weight loss and future and current protein absorption?

Doesn’t matter

My goal is to get to 10% (ideally 6-8%) and then go into a “maximum growth phase” (bulk).

I appreciate everyone’s help.

What are your stats? Height/Weight/Lifts/Training experience etc. etc.

Furthermore, if you are doing the Anabolic Diet, I seriously advise you to lift. If you have read the book (I really hope you have before starting this diet), its stressed time and time again that this must be used in tandem with a weight training program. Its designed with the weight training individual in mind.

Stats: Weight as of today:

166.4 pounds, 21.6% bodyfat (it can be due to the small weekend carb up).

I’ve been training for 1.5 years. Before you say “just eat,” “you need more size,” or “you should have progressed more,” understand that a good portion of that time I was trying to lose weight (I was a FFB and still technically am). I fell victim to some of the bodybuilding fads out there and while I did make progress, I am much smarter now than before.

My ultimate goal is to be a bodybuilder, but this seems like a time where I need to shed the fat in order to really make progress in the long term.

I want to lift, but am unsure of what approach to take because of:

  1. shoulder problem,
  2. low carbohydrate diet, and
  3. If I lift lighter weights, I feel that I’d lose muscle memory; just how lifting light weight for a lot of reps was a flawed concept for getting cut. I am not sure that “doing something over nothing” works with bodybuilding like it would with other goals.[/quote]

I knew in my heart of hearts this was boolsheet.

Dude you need to STOP.

STOP RIGHT NOW!!!

Quit thinking. you sound like a developmentally disabled person [retard].

So quit talking about muscle memory and some other horse shit and eat food and lift. My shoulder sucks too. You can still squat, leg press and all sorts of other shit. plus you need to lift to fix your shoulder you dumb shit.

Start lifting, eat correctly and come back in two years.

dammit dammit dammit. This is me:

-chris

[quote]jb413 wrote:
Are you for real? “2lbs a week max”??? Says who!??! Its bullshit.[/quote]

Says a host of authors on this site. Plus Dr. Mauro DiPasquale, the author of the diet that OP is planning to go on.

“What you want to do is LOSE 1.5?2 POUNDS OF BODYFAT EACH WEEK. Losing
1.5?2 pounds a week will insure that you don?t lose appreciable lean mass as you cut.” (Anabolic Diet, Pg. 42)

If you want to make this a contest, I’ve seen faster weight loss and strength gains as well. Mostly in the realm of beginners. Maintaining/Increasing strength does not necessarily mean maintaining/increasing lean tissue.

[quote]You can’t put a number on weightloss, it will happen as your genes dictate given your energy input/output. ie, you set your body into a calorific deficit through diet and training, and fat will fall off accordingly.
[/quote]

You must be new here. There are reasons why the numbers are set up the way they are, please take the time to do a bit of research before calling bullshit. Thanks for your time.