now i’m 1.79m tall. which is approx 5.8ft. and i can hardly even touch the backboard(half a palm?) on a 8ft (i think, the court at my house has a pretty low rim, cant touch the backboard for higher courts) rim. im about 68 - 70kg. my max squat was 2 20kg plates on ea side of a 20kg bar = 100kg Deadlift max was also the same. Could do 8 pull ups. and i run 2.4km in under 10mins. (which is not impressive at all, but yea, just trying to explain my situation) so im not some fat or some super out of shape guy. but my jumping really really sucks.
ive seen many people who lift less, or heavier than me jump higher than me and its really quite demoralising for me cause im a basketball player, and a better jump could really improve my game. so is there someting wrong with my technique? or perhaps i just have tight hip flexors or wtv those are called.
any advice? thanks! (and if you say train harder, then yea, i agree everyone oughta train harder. but just saying that with my height and fitness, i should at least be touching the backboard quite easily especially since its not even a regulation rim, so im just wondering whats wrong with me. and no, my arms are not stubby. )
not sure whr to post this, so i posted here and in beginners.
[quote]LTKO wrote:
now i’m 1.79m tall. which is approx 5.8ft. and i can hardly even touch the backboard(half a palm?) on a 8ft (i think, the court at my house has a pretty low rim, cant touch the backboard for higher courts) rim. im about 68 - 70kg. my max squat was 2 20kg plates on ea side of a 20kg bar = 100kg Deadlift max was also the same. Could do 8 pull ups. and i run 2.4km in under 10mins. (which is not impressive at all, but yea, just trying to explain my situation) so im not some fat or some super out of shape guy. but my jumping really really sucks.ive seen many people who lift less, or heavier than me jump higher than me and its really quite demoralising for me cause im a basketball player, and a better jump could really improve my game. so is there someting wrong with my technique? or perhaps i just have tight hip flexors or wtv those are called.
any advice? thanks! (and if you say train harder, then yea, i agree everyone oughta train harder. but just saying that with my height and fitness, i should at least be touching the backboard quite easily especially since its not even a regulation rim, so im just wondering whats wrong with me. and no, my arms are not stubby. )
not sure whr to post this, so i posted here and in beginners.[/quote]
Do plyos, and make all your lifts explosive. Keep track of your vertical and track it’s changes over a month or two.
The list of things you can do are endless… ITs putting them together and being consistant with it that make all the differences… PM me and I would be more than willing to help… I have A LOT of expierence in this… My vert is in the 30’s and im sitting at around 300lbs
[quote]LITTLEme wrote:
The list of things you can do are endless… ITs putting them together and being consistant with it that make all the differences… PM me and I would be more than willing to help… I have A LOT of expierence in this… My vert is in the 30’s and im sitting at around 300lbs ;-)[/quote]
That is insanely impressive. Talk about moving some mass.
the best resource i’ve read on vertical is the vertical jump bible, in it there are some tests to determine whether it’s reactive strength that’s lacking, or it’s overall strength.
another option is a strength training template like defranco’s ws4sb. he’s also got some articles specifically on vertical jump.
Your not very explosive…this is why you can’t jump.
Focus on speed in your training especially in
squats: slow down, fast up : THIS DOES NOT MEAN TO BOUNCE at the bottom of the squat
deadlifts: rip the bar off the floor KEEP YOUR BACK STRAIGHT, if your back is bent to f0ck your not strong enough to maintain your back position yet.
You can learn to OLift 1-2x a week also.
Get A LOT STRONGER.
I only OLift.
I have poor running and jumping technique but I fairly explosive.
Yes, you need to increase your explosiveness. Besides obviously doing explosive squats, leg press, leg curls, ect… you need to increase your flexibility.
Before lifting your legs hard, really focus on stretching for a good 10-15 minutes before beginning.
On top of stretching and doing these power lifts, I would recommend doing quicker non-weighted exercises such as plyo’s, line jumps, jump rope, and sprints. These quicker motions, along with the power lifts, work both your fast and slow twitch muscles, which can definitely lead to increased explosiveness and a higher vertical.
I agree with Koing for the most part. Though I’m not an oly lifter in the least, getting my squat and deadlift up say, 100lb or so with something like 10-15 lb gain in bodyweight has resulted in what I believe to be a higher vertical. I’m not particularly explosive, so just a testament to getting stronger without becoming a complete fatass. Similarly, I believe Stormthebeach moved up to around 275 from 242 and yet had a faster 40 yard time mostly because he was that much stronger.
[quote]AugustusMac wrote:
Yes, you need to increase your explosiveness. Besides obviously doing explosive squats, leg press, leg curls, ect… you need to increase your flexibility.[/quote]
Really? Do you know how flexible the OP is? He doesn’t mention it anywhere, except that he MIGHT have tight hip flexors. Determining if someone needs to increase the flexibility of a particular muscle requires a personal evaluation. It’s not a good thing to dish out general advice when you don’t know the individual’s strengths and weaknesses.
[quote]AugustusMac wrote:
Before lifting your legs hard, really focus on stretching for a good 10-15 minutes before beginning.[/quote]
Really? 10-15 min of static stretching right before plyos? Next, will you tell him to smoke cigarettes while he’s pumping gas? With the exception of the hip flexors, stretching the prime movers before lifting will have a weakening effect on your muscles and INCREASE chances of a muscle tear or pull! PLEASE READ THIS:
yup thanks for the advice. ill take the stretching and explosive movements into account. and ill try to get a foam roller. ive been told my muscles are quite “tight”. thanks jsk! ive read the article before. and yea i know its supposed to be dynamic stretching before pylos, lifting etc. ill do that together with statics at the end. thanks guys!
but if anyone can give me/suggest a reason(s) why im so not explosive to such a large degree, itll be helpful too! thanks.
jsk, are you suggesting that if one is to increase his vertical that stretching has nothing to with it? No where in my originial post did I say static stretch for 10-15 and immediately dive in to doing the most intense exercises right away. When I say stretch for 10-15 mintues, this implies a combination of stretching, warming up, getting a few light reps in and priming the muscles.
I’ve done thorough veritcal leap programs and have increased my vertical by almost a foot. I’m 5’11" and can easily dunk a basketball. Just giving the OP of what I did and how I became successful.
I may have been to general in my first post, and been more specific with what I meant about stretching and/or warming up. I just always see guys walk into the weight room and immediately begin lifting without any kind of warmup or stretch. One should really try to maintain/improve flexibility to avoid a possible future injury.
And I just assumed the OP was like 99% of the guys I see who are not really concerned with this. Just my 2 cents of advice, good luck.
Knowing that youâ??re probably gonna ditch what Iâ??m fixing to say in favor of a bunch of complicated BS that will take you the next 6 months of your training time to figure out, hereâ??s a very simple answer as to what Iâ??d recommend you do:
Get stronger. Until youâ??re going all the way down with 300 lbs on your back you simply donâ??t have the raw horsepower necessary to blast 192 lbs up in the air like youâ??d want.
After you accomplish #1, shift into more explosive work.
There is an easy (fast) way and a hard (long) way to accomplish the above.
A: The easy way consists of going to the gym every monday and friday or Monday and Thursday. On one day knock out sets of 5 in the squat followed by some Glute Hams for sets of 6-8. On the other day knock out sets of 6-8 in the bulgarian split squat followed by some more glute hams.
Maybe do some light squats as well just to keep the feel of the movement. Try to put more weight on the bar everytime you hit Mondays workout. Do this until you can throw around 300 for reps.
Prior to your workouts on Monday and Friday, as well as on Wednesday, do a low volume of some garden variety plyometric drills such as a few sets of lateral jumps, low squat hops and low box depth jumps or whatever else you want. They all do pretty much the same
B: Iâ??ll let others tell you about the hard way.
Once you have accomplished #3 you will now have a bigger motor in your car and can then focus on modifying that motor to get the most out of it.
4A. Keep the same basic schedule in place. Monday and Thursday or Monday and Friday etc. On one day do some depth jumps followed by some wave loaded jump squats for sets of 5 for a total of 4-5 sets of depth jumps and 8 sets of squats. The squat weights will vary between 20-50% of your max.
Do one set with more weight followed by one set with lighter weight and alternate back and forth until youâ??ve done all 8 sets. At the very end of your workout you might do a few sets of 3 reps with 80% of your squat, as well as a few glutehams, just to maintain your strength.
4B. On the other weekly workout make it a workout based around jumping and sprinting for PRs. Simply go out and get warmed up and try to jump as high as possible from a variety of starts (running, single leg, standing, bouncing off a box). Maybe add in some sprints if you want.
When you no longer are getting consistent weekly results from 4A and 4B (which might take 3 weeks and might take a couple of months), then itâ??s time to start over with #1.
Keep repeating Steps 1 through 5 for as many years as you like until you either get to where you want to be or until you get old, gray and worn out
-body 10% or lower.
-be able to squat 1.5x your body weight
-deadlift 1.5x to 2.0x your body weight
-Pratice Jumping and touching as high as you can 2-3 time a week, (hitting the backboard touching the rim etc.). Make sure these jumps are max effort so do 3-5 jumps take a 2 min break repeat this 3-4 times.
-Sprints can be helpful
If really want to focus on jumping and basketball lift legs twice a week and put upperbody on hold for a bit until you feel your basketball game and jumping ability are more respectable
You could squat two times a week or deadlift once a week and squat once a week as well.
[quote]arnoud verschoor wrote:
You can thank me later…
Knowing that youâ??re probably gonna ditch what Iâ??m fixing to say in favor of a bunch of complicated BS that will take you the next 6 months of your training time to figure out, hereâ??s a very simple answer as to what Iâ??d recommend you do:
Get stronger. Until youâ??re going all the way down with 300 lbs on your back you simply donâ??t have the raw horsepower necessary to blast 192 lbs up in the air like youâ??d want.
After you accomplish #1, shift into more explosive work.
There is an easy (fast) way and a hard (long) way to accomplish the above.
A: The easy way consists of going to the gym every monday and friday or Monday and Thursday. On one day knock out sets of 5 in the squat followed by some Glute Hams for sets of 6-8. On the other day knock out sets of 6-8 in the bulgarian split squat followed by some more glute hams.
Maybe do some light squats as well just to keep the feel of the movement. Try to put more weight on the bar everytime you hit Mondays workout. Do this until you can throw around 300 for reps.
Prior to your workouts on Monday and Friday, as well as on Wednesday, do a low volume of some garden variety plyometric drills such as a few sets of lateral jumps, low squat hops and low box depth jumps or whatever else you want. They all do pretty much the same
B: Iâ??ll let others tell you about the hard way.
Once you have accomplished #3 you will now have a bigger motor in your car and can then focus on modifying that motor to get the most out of it.
4A. Keep the same basic schedule in place. Monday and Thursday or Monday and Friday etc. On one day do some depth jumps followed by some wave loaded jump squats for sets of 5 for a total of 4-5 sets of depth jumps and 8 sets of squats. The squat weights will vary between 20-50% of your max.
Do one set with more weight followed by one set with lighter weight and alternate back and forth until youâ??ve done all 8 sets. At the very end of your workout you might do a few sets of 3 reps with 80% of your squat, as well as a few glutehams, just to maintain your strength.
4B. On the other weekly workout make it a workout based around jumping and sprinting for PRs. Simply go out and get warmed up and try to jump as high as possible from a variety of starts (running, single leg, standing, bouncing off a box). Maybe add in some sprints if you want.
When you no longer are getting consistent weekly results from 4A and 4B (which might take 3 weeks and might take a couple of months), then itâ??s time to start over with #1.
Keep repeating Steps 1 through 5 for as many years as you like until you either get to where you want to be or until you get old, gray and worn out
[/quote]
This is really good. Keep in mind what the Main thing the above post is trying to say keep it simple. Your going to get more results by keeping thing simpler as opposed to making them more complicated.
Agreed, I would also suggest some quickness exercises as I mentioned above (line jumps/jumprope/sprints/ quick box jumps). After all being quick and explosive in basketball is a very good combination
[quote]AugustusMac wrote:
jsk, are you suggesting that if one is to increase his vertical that stretching has nothing to with it? No where in my originial post did I say static stretch for 10-15 and immediately dive in to doing the most intense exercises right away. When I say stretch for 10-15 mintues, this implies a combination of stretching, warming up, getting a few light reps in and priming the muscles.
I’ve done thorough veritcal leap programs and have increased my vertical by almost a foot. I’m 5’11" and can easily dunk a basketball. Just giving the OP of what I did and how I became successful.
I may have been to general in my first post, and been more specific with what I meant about stretching and/or warming up. I just always see guys walk into the weight room and immediately begin lifting without any kind of warmup or stretch. One should really try to maintain/improve flexibility to avoid a possible future injury.
And I just assumed the OP was like 99% of the guys I see who are not really concerned with this. Just my 2 cents of advice, good luck. [/quote]
Thanks for clarifying. We’re more on the same page then I thought. I think people tend to associate stretching with passive mobility, and seem to usually neglect the active mobility you can increase through a dynamic warm up.
Very impressive results on your vert leap btw. Did you use any particular programs or coaches, or did you mish mash on your own?
[quote]arnoud verschoor wrote:
You can thank me later…
Knowing that you�¢??re probably gonna ditch what I�¢??m fixing to say in favor of a bunch of complicated BS that will take you the next 6 months of your training time to figure out, here�¢??s a very simple answer as to what I�¢??d recommend you do:
Get stronger. Until you�¢??re going all the way down with 300 lbs on your back you simply don�¢??t have the raw horsepower necessary to blast 192 lbs up in the air like you�¢??d want.
After you accomplish #1, shift into more explosive work.
There is an easy (fast) way and a hard (long) way to accomplish the above.
A: The easy way consists of going to the gym every monday and friday or Monday and Thursday. On one day knock out sets of 5 in the squat followed by some Glute Hams for sets of 6-8. On the other day knock out sets of 6-8 in the bulgarian split squat followed by some more glute hams.
Maybe do some light squats as well just to keep the feel of the movement. Try to put more weight on the bar everytime you hit Mondays workout. Do this until you can throw around 300 for reps.
Prior to your workouts on Monday and Friday, as well as on Wednesday, do a low volume of some garden variety plyometric drills such as a few sets of lateral jumps, low squat hops and low box depth jumps or whatever else you want. They all do pretty much the same
B: I�¢??ll let others tell you about the hard way.
Once you have accomplished #3 you will now have a bigger motor in your car and can then focus on modifying that motor to get the most out of it.
4A. Keep the same basic schedule in place. Monday and Thursday or Monday and Friday etc. On one day do some depth jumps followed by some wave loaded jump squats for sets of 5 for a total of 4-5 sets of depth jumps and 8 sets of squats. The squat weights will vary between 20-50% of your max.
Do one set with more weight followed by one set with lighter weight and alternate back and forth until you�¢??ve done all 8 sets. At the very end of your workout you might do a few sets of 3 reps with 80% of your squat, as well as a few glutehams, just to maintain your strength.
4B. On the other weekly workout make it a workout based around jumping and sprinting for PRs. Simply go out and get warmed up and try to jump as high as possible from a variety of starts (running, single leg, standing, bouncing off a box). Maybe add in some sprints if you want.
When you no longer are getting consistent weekly results from 4A and 4B (which might take 3 weeks and might take a couple of months), then it�¢??s time to start over with #1.
Keep repeating Steps 1 through 5 for as many years as you like until you either get to where you want to be or until you get old, gray and worn out
[/quote]
This is really good. Keep in mind what the Main thing the above post is trying to say keep it simple. Your going to get more results by keeping thing simpler as opposed to making them more complicated. [/quote]
Oh, by the way, this was a quote from kelly baggett, not from me…
[quote]AugustusMac wrote:
jsk, are you suggesting that if one is to increase his vertical that stretching has nothing to with it? No where in my originial post did I say static stretch for 10-15 and immediately dive in to doing the most intense exercises right away. When I say stretch for 10-15 mintues, this implies a combination of stretching, warming up, getting a few light reps in and priming the muscles.
I’ve done thorough veritcal leap programs and have increased my vertical by almost a foot. I’m 5’11" and can easily dunk a basketball. Just giving the OP of what I did and how I became successful.
I may have been to general in my first post, and been more specific with what I meant about stretching and/or warming up. I just always see guys walk into the weight room and immediately begin lifting without any kind of warmup or stretch. One should really try to maintain/improve flexibility to avoid a possible future injury.
And I just assumed the OP was like 99% of the guys I see who are not really concerned with this. Just my 2 cents of advice, good luck. [/quote]
Thanks for clarifying. We’re more on the same page then I thought. I think people tend to associate stretching with passive mobility, and seem to usually neglect the active mobility you can increase through a dynamic warm up.
Very impressive results on your vert leap btw. Did you use any particular programs or coaches, or did you mish mash on your own? [/quote]
Yea I was pretty vague in my original post, I’m glad you called me out so I could clarify. Yea I actually trained with a personal trainer off and on over the course of 3 years. On top of him showing me some excellent workouts to do, he actually trained with me. It was great because we pushed each other and kept the workouts very intense. I began work with him to improve my explosiveness and quickness as a basketball player so my past goals run parallel with what the OP is trying to achieve.
Since then, I’ve basically taken the exercises we did and combined it with some additional exercises for my own little program. I’m still in touch with him, and we often bounce workouts and ideas off each other for something new to try. I’m always looking for a new challenge… which is why I read articles/forums on T-Nation haha
)
