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Can't Hit the Lats Effectively...

What are good routines/complexes to hit the lats?

Pullups are not doing the job and pullovers are not hitting it either. Pullovers seem to hit the shoulders and tris more than anything.

I don’t have access to cables either.

Have you attempted deadlifting ?

Try Dr. Darden’s lat routine posted on T-Nation not too long ago.

And what makes you think you can’t hit your lats effectively? Do you chin? Row? Deadlift?

Have you actually picked a program and stuck to it for more than a week or two? You’re all over the place man!

Yes. Thank you nate. I did pick a program after your post last week. I deadlift, chin, row, etc. I’m on HSS-100 but without cables i am unable to hit the lats on lat day. Other then pullups and pullovers that is.

http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=07-011-training

thanks

Pull-ups aren’t doing the trick? You might not be doing them correctly. I find a lot of people don’t know how to fire their lats during vertical and horizontal pulling movements. They end up being “all arms” instead. They’ll tell me their biceps are killing them and they don’t feel a thing in their lats.

One trick I learned is to focus on how your elbows are moving. Forget about what your hands are doing, whether pulling on the handle or gripping the chin bar. Focusing on the elbows tends to “trick” the mind into firing the lats more.

As an example, if you’re performing pull-ups, don’t focus on getting your chin over the bar, or pulling yourself up by your hands, focus on moving your elbows down and in toward your body. You should feel the lats kicking in more this way.

Good Luck

[quote]Hawkson101 wrote:
Yes. Thank you nate. I did pick a program after your post last week. I deadlift, chin, row, etc. I’m on HSS-100 but without cables i am unable to hit the lats on lat day. Other then pullups and pullovers that is.[/quote]

I found that the HSS-100 back spec really helped me with this. Darden’s routine may also work, but I had already fixed my problem by the time I tried it.

In general, focus on pulling your elbows toward you instead of pulling your hands toward you.

Get a friend to (gently) punch your lat while doing a pullup. Guaranteed to improve muscle recruitment.

[quote]smallnomore wrote:
Pull-ups aren’t doing the trick? You might not be doing them correctly. I find a lot of people don’t know how to fire their lats during vertical and horizontal pulling movements. They end up being “all arms” instead. They’ll tell me their biceps are killing them and they don’t feel a thing in their lats.

One trick I learned is to focus on how your elbows are moving. Forget about what your hands are doing, whether pulling on the handle or gripping the chin bar. Focusing on the elbows tends to “trick” the mind into firing the lats more.

As an example, if you’re performing pull-ups, don’t focus on getting your chin over the bar, or pulling yourself up by your hands, focus on moving your elbows down and in toward your body. You should feel the lats kicking in more this way.

Good Luck[/quote]

This is the best advice I’ve seen on here.

Also this, http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1403235

I have this same problem as well. This should help. Check it out.

2nd the “Torso Solution” recommendation. Been using some of the exercises in it since it came out and it has added some width to my back for sure.

While Deadlifting is great for overall back develop for the lats themselves my two favs are still TBars and Db rows

There are a few different things going on here. First you have people saying just do pulldowns, rows etc and you will hit your lats!! No shit. Unless there is something wrong with your nervous system you will use your latissimus dorsi to pull things toward your body. And yes the muscle will grow and get stronger as you can increase the weight you can pull toward yourself.

However, what many people have a problem doing is being able to recognize and distinguish the pull of the lats from the pull of the rear delt, teres, and rhomboids. Many people have a hard time with this. And the way to do get the lats going is to work on your pulling based on the strength of your lats, not on how much weight you can pulldown. Because if you are not getting your lats as involved as they should be in your pulls you cant just start thinking different with the same weight and think they will kick in.

The lats probably are not strong enough to handle the weight you have built up to using alot of assistance from the other pulling muscles. What I would suggest is to start light with a lat pulldown and take it slow, keeping your shoulders down and really feeling the pull of the lats on the bar. Your weight will jump up in no time…

Dude, you need to ACTIVATE the muscles you’re trying to work. Perform warm-up sets in ascending fashion until the muscle is completely pumped and activated. Don’t be afraid to use even the smallest of weights, even if you have to do 30 reps with two 3lb plates or just the bar…just do it. After a few weeks your body will adapt and all the exercises will begin to WORK all of a sudden. Good luck.

heres my back routine.Im a little crazy but try it a few times then get back to me.
warm up 2 set of front wide grip pull downs for 15-20 reps.25 sec rest
3 working sets.Ill do like 120 15-20
then 160 12-15,190 8-12,220 6-10 45sec rest,250 6-8,45sec rest 260 for 6.

2min rest next exercise.behind the neck
180 3 sets 10-12 reps 30 sec rest,1min rest next exercise.d.b row 100 12 rep 30 sec rest120 12rep 30sec rest 140 12 rep 1min rest.next.close grip low row 180 12rep 30sec rest,220 10rep 30sec rest260 8 1min rest 300 6 1min rest,next.high row machine,per side…90 10reps 30sec rest 135 10reps 30rest180 8reps 1min rest,next.the verry last thing i do is lat pull down for 4 sets of 20.not much weight.If im really pissed when i get in there i do everyback movement and angles i can think of.Or 10 sets of 10 with 10 machines…like i said im a little crazy.ill be posting pics soon.what my work out is…a pump…pound the musle with heavy weight and then a pump at the end.let me know how you like it.

You need to try doing pullups with a grip WIDER THAN YOUR SHOULDERS. I’m talking a wiiiiiiiide grip pullup. Trust me, it’ll add width to your lats.

[quote]Fulmen wrote:
You need to try doing pullups with a grip WIDER THAN YOUR SHOULDERS. I’m talking a wiiiiiiiide grip pullup. Trust me, it’ll add width to your lats.[/quote]

This is a good tip, but I’ve also found that by keeping your eyes and head facing forward rather than looking down, you end up using more of your back in the pull.

Keep your chin off of your chest, but don’t cock your head back too much, either.

[quote]Hawkson101 wrote:
What are good routines/complexes to hit the lats?

Pullups are not doing the job and pullovers are not hitting it either. Pullovers seem to hit the shoulders and tris more than anything.

I don’t have access to cables either.[/quote]

Here’s what I do, simple but effective.

Weighted Chins - 5, 4, 3 (I use low rep schemes). I fully extend each rep (as it’s the bottom portion of the movement that seems to recruit my lats more) and explode up firing with my lats. For the last set of 3 reps I perform all reps from a dead hang with no momentum (this is also my test to see whether I deserve to use a heavier weight the next session).

Assisted 1 handed Chins - Aim for 5 reps with each arm, once you get 5 reps use less assistance the next session (your results on this exercise can vary wildly depending on how much the main Chins have taken out of you so I do this for fun really, plus as you can turn away during the movement you get a stretch with is superior to the 2 handed movement).

Lat Pulldowns - 5, 4, 3. Don’t be afraid of some torso movement, I have tried very strict “perfect” form and with controlled torso movement, the latter is much more effective as you can be much more explosive.

Lat Pulldown Burnout Set - Until Failure. Put your hands right at the end of the bar and rep out (this time with “perfect form” as the weight will be light) until you reach failure (I don’t work through the failure as it doesn’t seem necessary), I usually shoot for 20 - 30 reps.

Now, the last sentence of your post (about the cables) makes me think that you may not work out in a gym so assuming you only have a pullup bar at your disposal you could try something like;

Bodyweight Chins/Pullups - Each set is 10 Chins followed immediately by 10 Pullups (all performed explosively but without any help from swinging or kicking etc.) Do this for 5 sets (It may start off easy but that tends to change suddenly) and then if you still need to hit them more try some slow eccentrics (jump up to the top position and lower yourself as slowly as you can) try about 5 reps.

I’ve tried this myself when I’m having one of those days when you can’t seem to move your usual weights and I can assure you that it hits the lats.

[quote]sharetrader wrote:
Get a friend to (gently) punch your lat while doing a pullup. Guaranteed to improve muscle recruitment.[/quote]

Sounds like Pavel. Never tried it.

[quote]Fulmen wrote:
You need to try doing pullups with a grip WIDER THAN YOUR SHOULDERS. I’m talking a wiiiiiiiide grip pullup. Trust me, it’ll add width to your lats.[/quote]

Alot of people think they can do wide-grip pullups, and they cant.

If you can do a lat-pulldown with your own body weight, then you can do wide-grip pullups. I have tried, and maybe done 2 with horrid form. I went to the lat pulldown machine and can only do 130, (nearly 40lbs from my weight) for several reps. When I can up the weight to pull down my own body weight, I will be ready to take on the wide-grip pullup with good form.

Agreed, Wide-Grip Pullups are awesome for working out the lats. It’s just getting to do them is the hard part.

[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
sharetrader wrote:
Get a friend to (gently) punch your lat while doing a pullup. Guaranteed to improve muscle recruitment.

Sounds like Pavel. Never tried it.[/quote]

Well spotted. It definitely “hits the lats”!