T Nation

Can't Get Enough Nutrition Daily


#1

Good morning T-Nation coaches and members!!

First I would like to thank you very much for the great information you provide here, that helped me too much during my transformation journey.

4 months ago, I’ve started to follow T-Nation articles and forum tips for training and nutrition. I was used to count calories and macros for last two years and successfully dropped my weight. However, it was very stressful to continue counting, But since I’ve followed your tips I got relaxed and no more stress. I still log meals (as a reference only) after eating not for planning.

Now I’m following Jim Wendler’s tips regarding to meal partitioning, Non counters diet article tips, and following 5/2 diet. Everything is going very well but some problems still there, consider the following points first:

  1. I can’t increase my breakfast more than slice of bran toast and slice of cheese. If I increase I feel sleepy and can’t sustain my job duties.

  2. I fast from 07:00AM to 07:00 PM, that’s my working hours. I fast because I feel very well, mentally sharp, no gut problems, etc. Also I don’t have a chance to eat during work hours.

  3. I train 4 days/week; I start training once I return back home before breaking my fast, that is by 06:00PM. I train fasted and have only a piece of fruit and coffee as pre-workout.

  4. My main meal is right after working out, and as recommended by Jim and other T-Nation coaches it is mainly protein (half of the plate) with good carbs, veggies, and good fats as the other half.

  5. I eat real food, I don’t depend on protein shakes. I depend on nutrient dense food not calorie dense food. I feel full and have no hunger strikes.

The problem is here. Once I finish the main meal I feel very full, till next day, I can’t eat another meal, and have to force myself to eat something before sleeping that is mostly a cup of cottage cheese with cane molasses but not daily. The total calories of the day are about 1200 kcal which are very low, protein also is no more than 120g (hardly). However; I don’t feel weak, and my energy levels are high, during workout and allover the day.

Before following your great tips regarding to real food I could consume 2000kcal/day mostly from calorie dense food and always feel hungry and weak. But now I feel full, with very low calories. I’m afraid I lose my muscle mass or ruin my metabolism.

What are your advices?

Thanks in advance


#2

If you don’t have a chance to eat during work hours, then I am assuming you are outside the US, since that is basically law here - workers must be afforded breaks for food and bathroom, especially during long shifts like yours. If you can’t sit and eat, would you possibly be able to eat a protein bar while doing your job? Again, don’t know where you are or what you do, so it’s hard to tailor anything to your exact circumstances. If bringing a bottle with a pre-made protein or meal replacement shake is possible, that is another good option - chugging a shake is quicker than eating a protein bar. Either would be a good option - this obviously assumes these things are available to you wherever you are, and are not prohibitively expensive.

Not sure what your goals are, so it’s hard to give advice missing that information. What are you trying to accomplish? You said you don’t use protein powders, and I agree one should not rely on them all the time but they are very convenient for someone in your situation who is trying to increase protein intake and/or calories, but doesn’t have the time to sit and eat during work.

If you are absolutely forbidden from bringing food into the workplace and/or taking a meal or snack break (even a short one) then I don’t know what to tell you. Point being, you will have trouble making physique progress given your current setup - again, assuming that is what you are looking for, and obviously working to pay the bills has to take priority over that.


#3

[quote]boatguy wrote:
If you don’t have a chance to eat during work hours, then I am assuming you are outside the US, since that is basically law here - workers must be afforded breaks for food and bathroom, especially during long shifts like yours. If you can’t sit and eat, would you possibly be able to eat a protein bar while doing your job? Again, don’t know where you are or what you do, so it’s hard to tailor anything to your exact circumstances. If bringing a bottle with a pre-made protein or meal replacement shake is possible, that is another good option - chugging a shake is quicker than eating a protein bar. Either would be a good option - this obviously assumes these things are available to you wherever you are, and are not prohibitively expensive.

Not sure what your goals are, so it’s hard to give advice missing that information. What are you trying to accomplish? You said you don’t use protein powders, and I agree one should not rely on them all the time but they are very convenient for someone in your situation who is trying to increase protein intake and/or calories, but doesn’t have the time to sit and eat during work.

If you are absolutely forbidden from bringing food into the workplace and/or taking a meal or snack break (even a short one) then I don’t know what to tell you. Point being, you will have trouble making physique progress given your current setup - again, assuming that is what you are looking for, and obviously working to pay the bills has to take priority over that.[/quote]

Hi Boatguy,

Thanks for your reply. In regard to your concern; I’m not forbidden to eat or bring food to work place, and I have 1 hour as a lunch break. However, due to job duties nature I rarely find time to eat, that’s the issue. I can’t even take my lunch break as I’m always busy working, or attending meetings. I’m working as CTO and lunch break is my gold period to do critical work in datacenter rooms, and as you may know, I’m not able to grab drinks/food into datacenters.

Another issue regarding to protein powder is that it is very expensive here!!! Currently I work in Saudi Arabia, here; 4lb tub costs me 120$!!! I can get 60 whole chicken by same price. So, protein powder is not my choice.

I think to create my own protein drink, something like blending cottage cheese into blender with cane molasses and some milk as replacement of protein drink, that’s something I can take with me to work. Is it a good path to follow?

My goals are strength gains, muscle mass gains, and BF reduction.

thanks for your reply


#4

How tall are you? How much do you weigh?

If that pic is recent I do not know how you are eating 1200 and functional. Your metabolism may be shot.

Have you tried eating just protein and fat for breakfast? Some people feel better not eating carbs at breakfast.


#5

From what you’re telling me, it seems like you just don’t want to eat. I do not mean to pass judgement or sound harsh, maybe you just don’t see the opportunity to eat, but I think you just need to buck up and knock it out man.

For example, you say that you don’t eat at your lunch break because you usually go straight to another task, you really don’t have 5 minutes you could take to scarf down a can of tuna and an egg or two? two cans of tuna isnt really that filling and has 50-60 grams of protein right there, add a hard boiled egg or two youre up to 70+ grams and it would take you all of 30 seconds to consume.

Also I know you said you feel full and bloated and such from eating outside of your calories that your body is used too, well yes of course because your body isnt used to it. I am a big believer in the “reverse dieting” idea of science which is in the simplest terms you cant go from eating two meals a day to six a day and get good results and feel good. You need to slowly add.

If i was you, and i wanted to optimize the small windows i had to eat, i would start adding a little bit to each meal. Make your breakfast a little bigger, eat 3-4 eggs and some oat meal, nothing crazy. after two or three weeks, make your post workout dinner bigger, again after two or three weeks. add that lunch i said, or something similar. Keep making these meals bigger until you reach optimal macros.

This may be a meat head phrase, but many people on this site are going to back it up or say something similar: to add muscle you need to eat. Even if you’re full eat. Once you’re done eating, force a second helping. Eating large quantities of quality food even when you don’t want to is part of the choice to pursue size and strength. I hope this helps you man, i believe you can do it.


#6

digestive enzymes with meal and try get some bcaa (pills or drink) mid workout


#7

All I see in your post is excuses not to eat. It’s pretty simple, if you want to get stronger and gain muscle you need to eat more. Before I start work I have consumed more calories than you do in the whole day.

Try making a homemade shake. I make one with milk, oats and olive oil. Can be 1000 calories just from that.

How much do you weigh?


#8

Hi Gentlemen,

Thanks for your precious advices and replies. Many great advices are there and all are aiming to increase the intake. I’m not trying to limit my intake. The issue is that I can’t sustain eating too much, may be a result of long period of wrong dieting and caloric restriction. A good advice mentioned here regarding to increasing meal size gradually and number of meals step by step that must be taken into consideration. Also I will try to make my own shake as you mentioned.

I’m 34 years old, 170cm tall and 70kgs as per today. The avatar pic is my recent pic, only 2 weeks before.

Regarding to fasting during working hours; can I continue doing this while increasing my BF and overall daily intake? or IF will ruin the gains?

Again I want to thank all of you for your support and great replies


#9

cut chicken into strips bake insert into ziplock /sandwitch bags put in frigerator
before work load up pockets or fanny pack
get big


#10

Hi Gentlemen,

Here is what I did trying to follow your advices.

Yesterday 2nd meal (and last one as it was night):

  • half chicken grilled in microwave seasoned only with salt, pepper and lemon. eaten without skin.

  • 1 fillet of pink salmon (about 100g), same seasoning.

  • 1 whole egg scrambled with 1 tsp of olive oil and 1/4 of white potato.

  • 1 tomato, bell pepper, and onion fruit. Sliced, no dressing.

  • 100g microwave grilled eggplant. No dressing (my favorite way)

-4 dates; dried.

And nothing more.

Today breakfast was same as usual: slice of bran toasted bread and a slice of fat-free cheddar cheese. In the lunch break I will give a short visit to Subway and have another meal, mostly will be short sub with lots of turkey and veggies.

Post-workout meal for today will be Microwave grilled turkey breast with veggies and some boiled rice.

What are your opinions?


#11

Not to split hairs, but I like beastcoast’s idea of gradual additions to diet, except I would add the lunch before I started making the other meals bigger. Bottom line is, you have to eat more often if you want to see any difference. As has been said, some tuna and eggs or pre-cooked chicken in strips won’t take but a few minutes to scarf down.

This isn’t a lunch date, it’s getting the nutrition you need in the time you have allotted. I know things are prohibitively expensive in some countries, been there done that. Is ordering these things online and having them shipped to you an option? I don’t know the customs laws/restrictions on supplements in The Kingdom, so I can’t help you there.

I’ll reiterate that powders and bars are not essential, but chugging a shake at lunch time is even quicker than scarfing some food. Might be worth finding out if mail order is an option. Other than that, the tuna and eggs or chicken breast (or all of them to break up the monotony) is a great idea, and probably the easiest in your situation.


#12

[quote]hanymamdouh wrote:
Hi Gentlemen,

Here is what I did trying to follow your advices.

Yesterday 2nd meal (and last one as it was night):

  • half chicken grilled in microwave seasoned only with salt, pepper and lemon. eaten without skin.

  • 1 fillet of pink salmon (about 100g), same seasoning.

  • 1 whole egg scrambled with 1 tsp of olive oil and 1/4 of white potato.

  • 1 tomato, bell pepper, and onion fruit. Sliced, no dressing.

  • 100g microwave grilled eggplant. No dressing (my favorite way)

-4 dates; dried.

And nothing more.

Today breakfast was same as usual: slice of bran toasted bread and a slice of fat-free cheddar cheese. In the lunch break I will give a short visit to Subway and have another meal, mostly will be short sub with lots of turkey and veggies.

Post-workout meal for today will be Microwave grilled turkey breast with veggies and some boiled rice.

What are your opinions?[/quote]

Do you track Calories/Macros?

At 154lbs I would start at 2500 calories and see how you respond.

I would try to add food to breakfast you mention it making you sleepy but, it could be the combination try an all protein/fat breakfast.

I see no issue with fasting or under eating during the day if you had a good breakfast. Are you able to eat nuts/seeds?

At what time do you train?


#13

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:

[quote]hanymamdouh wrote:
Hi Gentlemen,

Here is what I did trying to follow your advices.

Yesterday 2nd meal (and last one as it was night):

  • half chicken grilled in microwave seasoned only with salt, pepper and lemon. eaten without skin.

  • 1 fillet of pink salmon (about 100g), same seasoning.

  • 1 whole egg scrambled with 1 tsp of olive oil and 1/4 of white potato.

  • 1 tomato, bell pepper, and onion fruit. Sliced, no dressing.

  • 100g microwave grilled eggplant. No dressing (my favorite way)

-4 dates; dried.

And nothing more.

Today breakfast was same as usual: slice of bran toasted bread and a slice of fat-free cheddar cheese. In the lunch break I will give a short visit to Subway and have another meal, mostly will be short sub with lots of turkey and veggies.

Post-workout meal for today will be Microwave grilled turkey breast with veggies and some boiled rice.

What are your opinions?[/quote]

Do you track Calories/Macros?

At 154lbs I would start at 2500 calories and see how you respond.

I would try to add food to breakfast you mention it making you sleepy but, it could be the combination try an all protein/fat breakfast.

I see no issue with fasting or under eating during the day if you had a good breakfast. Are you able to eat nuts/seeds?

At what time do you train?

[/quote]

Hi xXSeraphimXx,

Thanks for the help pro. Yes; I’m tracking since 1.5 years. I’ve struggled too much to calculate my maintenance, and found it to be 1900 kcal/day, I know it is very low, but it is a result of wrong dieting and sedentary life and work nature. Lyle McDonald (I think you may know him) helped me also to figure out those numbers and I’ve tested it for more than 2 months and found it is the most accurate.

Regarding to breakfast; I’ve tried protein/fat only before for 6 weeks and it was the toughest 6 weeks in my life. I was very week and feel like piece of crap, so switched back to my old break fast which is only toast + cheese.

I train 4 days per week after I return back from work; that is by 06:00PM.

As I mentioned in my last post, I added lunch today (6" wheat sub + tuna) from subway by 01:00PM and did my workout at 06:00PM and results were good; more energy and less bloating. My post-workout meal was microwave grilled turkey (400g) with some tomato slices and onions and 2 tbsp of boiled rice. No bad issues right now except feeling very very full. Total intake of today is 1200kcal which is still very low.

I have no issues with nuts/seeds, I take sunflower seeds or roasted cashew sometimes with no problem.

Any recommendations?


#14

I mentioned making a shake earlier but just drinking milk is an easy way to get calories. I take 2-3 litres of milk to work with me. Easy and quick calories. You could nearly double your calories just by adding two litres.


#15

[quote]hanymamdouh wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:

[quote]hanymamdouh wrote:
Hi Gentlemen,

Here is what I did trying to follow your advices.

Yesterday 2nd meal (and last one as it was night):

  • half chicken grilled in microwave seasoned only with salt, pepper and lemon. eaten without skin.

  • 1 fillet of pink salmon (about 100g), same seasoning.

  • 1 whole egg scrambled with 1 tsp of olive oil and 1/4 of white potato.

  • 1 tomato, bell pepper, and onion fruit. Sliced, no dressing.

  • 100g microwave grilled eggplant. No dressing (my favorite way)

-4 dates; dried.

And nothing more.

Today breakfast was same as usual: slice of bran toasted bread and a slice of fat-free cheddar cheese. In the lunch break I will give a short visit to Subway and have another meal, mostly will be short sub with lots of turkey and veggies.

Post-workout meal for today will be Microwave grilled turkey breast with veggies and some boiled rice.

What are your opinions?[/quote]

Do you track Calories/Macros?

At 154lbs I would start at 2500 calories and see how you respond.

I would try to add food to breakfast you mention it making you sleepy but, it could be the combination try an all protein/fat breakfast.

I see no issue with fasting or under eating during the day if you had a good breakfast. Are you able to eat nuts/seeds?

At what time do you train?

[/quote]

I added lunch today (6" wheat sub + tuna) from subway by 01:00PM and did my workout at 06:00PM and results were good; more energy and less bloating.

[/quote]
Sounds like progress, and for the time being 3 meals/feeds a day is just fine. As this is probably a big change for you just do the same for the next 3-4 weeks and then evaluate.


#16

Hi RampantBadger, yes it is a little bit progress. I added also a cup full cream yogurt and two orange fruit before bed to aid my guts.

I also raised my breakfast for today to be 2 slices of bran toasted bread + slice of cheese + 1 tbsp of peanut butter, a total of 260kcal. I will do my best to consume lunch also.

Today I’m going for grocery shopping, and will try to get:

  • 2 dozens of whole chicken (they are on sale!!)
  • beef liver, heart, tongue, and lean cuts
  • Olive oil (extra virgin)
  • tons of eggs
  • cottage cheese (full fat)
  • nuts (mostly cashew, walnut, and peanuts)

What are good carbs for post-workout and bedtime? I depend on white rice and fruits (oranges, apples, and dates)

Thanks


#17

[quote]hanymamdouh wrote:
Hi RampantBadger, yes it is a little bit progress. I added also a cup full cream yogurt and two orange fruit before bed to aid my guts.

I also raised my breakfast for today to be 2 slices of bran toasted bread + slice of cheese + 1 tbsp of peanut butter, a total of 260kcal. I will do my best to consume lunch also.

Today I’m going for grocery shopping, and will try to get:

  • 2 dozens of whole chicken (they are on sale!!)
  • beef liver, heart, tongue, and lean cuts
  • Olive oil (extra virgin)
  • tons of eggs
  • cottage cheese (full fat)
  • nuts (mostly cashew, walnut, and peanuts)

What are good carbs for post-workout and bedtime? I depend on white rice and fruits (oranges, apples, and dates)

Thanks
[/quote]

Those foods are pretty much all you need. I would add in green vegetables/salads especially as this should also help with digestion.

A large amount of white rice is good post workout and will help with recovery, sweet potatoe, banana also other options.


#18

Thanks for all of your precious advices gentlemen. I’ve followed your advices and tips for last 7 days, and results are awesome. I increased my breakfast a little; adding more protein to it, and started to feel great. I’ve added also snack during work hours; some sort of dried nuts (not too much). My workout started to be very good and my energy is getting better and better day by day.

Yesterday I added 5 minutes of conditioning after weights workout session (5/3/1 deadlift day) and felt really good with too much explosive power. Haven’t felt that energy and power before except after finishing scuba dives (I think it is only adrenaline response from deep dives!)

I only suffer now from constipation from increased amounts of protein, but I will manage it by increasing fiber intake. I also followed Mr. RampantBadger advice regarding to digestive enzymes and added cup of skimmed yogurt before bed and it helped until I buy digestive enzymes supplement.

Thanks again gentlemen and coaches for your help and support.