T Nation

Can't Find Info


I have been reading this website for around 3 years and been searching on the internet but cant find anything or anyone with answers, so if someone can please help me out

When everyone is giving advice on quantities of juice , for what body weight is it aimed at?
I also read all the time from everyone saying don't use it if you're not developed properly and you must be over 80kg exc

But i cant seem to find the logic in that as everyone is different with different body types
I got a calculator on the net working out ones natural maximum potential and if i put my wrist sizes and height and all that in my max weight that i can get to naturally is 72kg

Ive been training for long and has gone up from 52KG to my maximum weight to 62kg.

Then last year i took Anavar at 30mg a day for 5 weeks and gone up to 64kg

My bodyfat is never more than 8%

I want to do a short course of tren and dianabols like Bill Roberts is always talking about and believe i will get allright gains as just the anavar gave me 2kg lean in 5 weeks

Are there anyone that can please help me with the amount of tren ace and dianabold according to body weight as i recon all the recommended doses is for people way above my body weight

if everyone is saying 50-75mg tren ace ed and dianabols 30-60mg a day where does it leave someone that only weighs 64 kg with a max of 72kg naturally?

This is my first post but please if someone can put me in the right direction it would be really so much appreciated


Do you have a link to the max natural weight site you used?


I cant put links up but if there's a way i can sent it to you i will

just explain how as i'm a bit lost on this site at the moment lol


For years i read everything from the forums from people that know so much and give advice on all topics and make newbies feel like shit with their comments made.

I'm sure if i put something like this up i wouldve gotten alot more responses

I need some help please with my first 8 week cycle

Want to run Test Prop at 150mg EOD with Tren Ace at 75mg ED with proviron 25mg ed for 8 weeks

Anything like that would've gotten replies like:

Stats? Where is the Stats?

Tren is dumb for a newbie , too strong for a first cycle

Alot of opinions

Now when i try to not make the same mistake as all the others that's been trampled on by giving a post like the example above. It seems like there is no one that can give some advice to someone that tries his best to do everything the others failed at

No one can even give me a little advice

Sad just sad


Learn to eat, learn to train, learn to sleep, com back when your not less than 150lbs. Good bye.


So let me get this straight: you had to juice to get to 140lbs? Are you 4'6" tall or something? I don't believe that any healthy male over 5'3" has a genetic limit of 72kg lean.

If the BF% you provided is correct, then that's your problem right there. Man up and don't be afraid to lose your abs for awhile. It's only temporary anyway. Seriously, just stuff your face. Maybe you'll puke. I did once. I don't care how you get your calories, just fucking eat until you gain weight. Once you learn how to eat in order to gain weight, then you can fine-tune your diet and start replacing the crap with cleaner choices.


he weighs less than 150lbs.. if he's over 5', he doesn't have abs


Okay there, fixed.


Yuri van Gelder, he was the world's best ring gymnast weighs only 63kg

So how can you say that someone that weighs 63kg MUST Be skinny as shit


Juri Van Gelder world's best ring gymnast a while back weighs 63 kg and is 1.6m tall

Is he skinny?

Where is the fact coming in that when you weigh 64kg you must be skinny as shit


He's 5'3" tall. Are you saying that you're 5'3" as well? If so, ouch I feel for ya, but if not your example is invalid.

He's not skinny, but neither has he reached his limit in terms of bodybuilding potential, which obviously isn't something he trains for anyway. But, I'm assuming, you do. And you're clearly missing a bigger piece of the puzzle that should be figured out before you start messing around with drugs.

If, with just the little information you've provided, everybody can tell that diet is the issue here maybe you should listen. It takes a bigger man to admit when he doesn't know shit, and an attitude like that opens you up to learn more and be more successful in everything you do.

Food and no drugs will do a much better job than drugs and no food.


Hey Deron, don't worry my man. In all seriousness, I promise you something better than steroids for you.
If you:

1) Start a deadlift/bench/squat based exercise program to get your lift numbers to 400/300/300 at least 3-4 days a week.
(Try starting strength by mark rippetoe)

2) Eat as much calorie and nutrient dense food as you can every single day, and take in 200 grams of protein a day
(notice I didn't say supplements of any kind) Try to gain up to 5 pounds a month at least.

3) Get enough sleep, water, and rest each day.

You will probably add 20 or more pounds of muscle in just one year. No joke, I'm not lying, trolling or screwing around with you. Ever seen how much one pound of meat is at the store? You could have 20 of those distributed around your body in a years time.

The best part about being as muscularly underdeveloped as you is that when you work hard, the gains come extremely fast. People will seriously be wondering what you've been doing.

Go for it man!


Gymnasts don't possess much lower body mass if I'm not mistaken, as it can greatly increase ones rotational inertia by giving a less favorable center of mass.

Obviously alot of your poundage comes from your wheels, so squats and milk, as it were.

Truly you probably do need to eat much more than you are, if you are naturally lean you have a leg up in that you can be more lax on your food choices and focus on calories. Trust my I did it for years and never exceeded 10%.


So true. I always thought I was eating enough, as most people do. Then I went nuts on food. Ate something every time I passed the kitchen. If you eat so much and so often (obviously while following the right program) that the mere thought of eating turns you off, you'll gain weight. Thought I was a 'hard-gainer' and then gained 15lbs. in 4 months by stuffing my yap every chance I got, and working hard in the gym.


Thank you very much for the advice and i really appreciate it and will try my real best to eat more.

I was a Gymnast and long distant runner my whole life so i do have the genes for being skinny if i can put it that way

I am 4cm taller than Yuri van Gelder myself.

i dont say i have his build but here is a pic of me(i dont see myself as being very skinny but maybe everyone else will though

As for the eating part i do eat around 180-200g protein a day with around 300-350g carbs and between 60-80g fat. so should i eat more? because i cant seem to get anymore whole foods in so should it come from liquid calories then because i really cant eat more than this as i want to puke

And as for the Major lifts
Squat - 110kg x 5 for 5 sets
Deadlifft - 125kg x 5 for 5 sets
Dumbbell chest presses 38kg per arm for 5 sets from 5 reps(cant do bench press(my shoulders hurt)
Weighted Pull ups (30kg x 5 for 5 sets)
Weighted Dips (50kg x 5 for 5 sets)
Standing Military press (50kg x 5 for 5 sets)

And this is basically my workout for 3 days a week as well

Been doing this for long time
Would you guys say i must do some high vol program for a change as all i read is that we skinny people should do big compound lifts heavy for 3 days a week with low reps

But maybe i should change the workouts to a split and higer reps and vol or what?

Thank you for the replies


OP, this is really long, which I apologize for, but I think you will find it worth reading.

You have a good base for sure and your lifts are respectable for your BW.

Diet-wise you don't look to be in a bad place, though the amount of cals required to gain/maintain weight can vary from person to person based on individual variations in biochemistry (genetics + environmental conditions) and activity level. The most base rule about diet is, though, adjust calories in accordance with changes in your weight (is it going in the direction I want it to at the rate I want it to?).

Don't get too hung up on weight, though, remember it's just one measuring tool in your kit. Also take into consideration your lifts, measurements, and what you look like in the mirror. Make sure you're focusing on recovery. This includes getting enough sleep and being reasonable about recreational drug use, including (and especially) alcohol.

As far as liquid calories go, they're no replacement for real food, but they can be useful. A protein shake post-WO and before bed wouldn't hurt. Just use regular whey isolate, no need to buy fancy weight gainers or any of that shit. For supps, just the basics: protein (not really a supp), creatine, a multi, joint health (fish oil and glucosamine).

You can throw in BCAAs intra-workout if you have the cash. Nothing fancy, and if money is a concern, forgo supplementation in favour of just buying more food.

I think your workout may be limiting you here. You have chosen a lot of good exercises that work all the main planes of movement (except horizontal pulling), but, I think you are at the level that you would benefit greatly from more structure in your training sessions. Looking into an intermediate strength program like Madcow, TM, or 5/3/1 might be worth a try (and STICK WITH IT, though that doesn't seem to be a problem for you).

I've only tried 5/3/1 (with BBB), which I really like so far, so that's the only one I can officially endorse, but I've consistently heard good things about the others from many of the posters here.

Do you still run a lot? Overdoing the cardio can screw with muscle growth, but moderate cardio is a good thing.

And lastly, if benching hurts your shoulder, have you ever given powerlifting-style benching a try? PL typically involves dynamic stretches of the joints worked and rotator-cuff exercises prior to benching. The style of benching is also a lot more shoulder-friendly. Just a thought, maybe it'll work.



Benches hurt my shoulder alot too until I learned to do them properly, we look somewhat similar and you more likely than not are arm dominant as am I.

Learn to externally rotate and keep your elbows braced on your lats as you lower the bar, then bring your elbows out as needed towards the bottom.


You see i have degenerative disc disease in my lumber discs and can't go heavier than my 5 reps i do, and for my shoulder i cant do bench as after my last bike accident it just never allowed me to do bench press. the exercises i do is the ones that i CAN do if i can put it that way. That's why i thought i must go with split programs and higher vol maybe, but it seems like everything tells me it wont work anyway for my body type as everything i read says we complete ectomorphs should stick with the lower vol

I stopped running a while back and that's how i managed to gain the 10kg i talked about

I would've done oxandrolone again but its just too pricey. The reason i was looking into something to take is because i didn't change my diet or training on the var and i still gained so i thought maybe something stronger would give me a little more gain, but i will up the calories with a smoothie with milk, protein, bananas and peanut butter that will be around 500kcal.

I am arm dominant and it has its good and bad, the good is i never have to train arms directly and they are pretty well developed as you can see on this pic,,, the downfall is its a bit difficult without isolation exercises to not overwork them and in the same time struggle to feel the other muscles work properly as they should because the arms always seem to do most of the work

Thanks guys i appreciate the replies.

I will up my calories (from liquid like smoothies) and look into gear at a later stage