I think I have done as much research and digging on this issue that one can - here is what I have discovered.
Health Canada sets the standards for what is controlled in Canada. Customs officers only enforce the Health Canada regulations. If nothing is controlled, individuals are allowed to order up to a 90-day supply provided it is for your personal use.
The Health Canada website has a list of controlled substances / ingredients however the website is not updated as frequently as the internal Health Canada paperwork. This means that there will be a discrepancy between what the public can view as controlled and what Health Canada is actually doing.
Also there is a question of consistency among the Health Canada inspectors. For example I was initially told that lecithin and titanium dioxide were controlled but I did my own research and corrected the inspector myself. Anyway the link for the Health Canada search site is http://search.hc-sc.gc.ca/cgi-bin/query?mss=hcsearch This search was pretty helpful because the Health Canada site is a gong show of jargon and crap.
Customs Canada has two (2) point of entry offices for all air mail deliveries that cross the border - Vancouver and Toronto. All AIR mail deliveries that are scrutinized at these locations will require a Health Canada stamp of approval based on the ingredient list of any suspicious products. This does not mean that all shipments will be held up and examined, but if it does happen then nothing goes through until a Health Canada inspector gives it the green light.
The big question mark here is the inconsistency I mentioned earlier. Some Health Canada inspectors are more stringent than others, so you never know who is looking at what. Also, it is my understanding that the mail centers have recently been centralized in Vancouver and Toronto. Previously, the mail centers were located at provincial sources, which lead to even more inconsistency among Health Canada inspections and what they viewed as controlled.
My contact at Health Canada has reviewed the following Biotest supplements:
Spike
HOT-ROX
Alpha Male
Carbolin 19
Metabolic Drive Advanced Protein
From this list, the only supp Health Canada has an issue with is HOT-ROX because they have put 3,17-dihydroxy-delta-5-etiocholane-7-one diethylcarbonate on the controlled list.
If anything gets seized at Canadian Customs, I have been assured that notice is sent to the individual listed as the intended recipient. In this scenario, the individual will have to discuss the issue with Customs and (most likely) Health Canada to advocate for release of the shipment. In other words, nothing gets destroyed until the matter is resolved with the intended recipient.
Hope this info helps any Canadian customers here who have had problems with orders in the past. I have spent a few months in contact with various Customs and Health Canada employees and it has been a painfully slow and confusing discussion at best. The red tape is layered pretty thick and no one wants to be held accountable for anything.
I could not get my contact to review every Biotest Supplement because it was a battle to get the five reviews I do have. However I would bet that Surge is ok and anyone who is interested in Methoxy-7 or Power Drive should do their research before ordering.
If anyone else has any information to share, please enlighten me further on this mess.
I’ve seen Power Drive and HOT-ROX (regular strength) in stores here. How would the store get HOT-ROX in if it was controlled?
[/quote]I have no idea how some companies get product into Canada for re-sale. It is beyond my ability to understand. I do know that I can get Biotest products in Canada but the prices are not so great. I was interested in getting the T-Nation deal on prices and suddenly a whole other world of bullshit Health and Canada Customs became a roadblock.
If I need something and cant order direct from the US, then I would pay the retailer here in Canada. I just wanted to inform the group here so hopefully no one gets their shit seized at Customs.
[quote]jaybvee wrote:
I go to a store locally to grab my stuff (e.g., Surge, Grow!, first bottle of Spike, etc.)for now…
Still waiting and hoping to hear the post from TC or a mod that FINALLY the USPS shipping option to Canada is available…
Paying the FEDEX costs of shipping overnight would cost me a tub of Surge LOL[/quote]
DAMN! I thought that this USPS shipping thing was all set-up allready, thats why I started digging into this Customs crap in the first place. I was holding off on my order until Alpha Male is available.
[quote]notafob wrote:
what did they say was the problem with 3,17-dihydroxy-delta-5-etiocholane-7-one diethylcarbonate?
[/quote]
My contact didnt state reasons. All I know for sure is that the Health Canada website had nothing to say about the compound, yet some manager in Ottawa said it was not approved for use in Canada.
From what I can gather, Health Canada is seriously under staffed and the people who do answer any questions are needlessly vague, almost like they are nervous or confused or something. In fact, the contact I spoke with was whispering during our discussion. You would have thought I was asking for permission to import heroin.
Does anyone have any other knowledge about these commies and how they operate?
I know this should likely being going into a different thread, but seeing as all of us in Canada have likely at one time or another thought of this, one of you might have an answear for me. Will Biotest ship to US adressed P.O. boxes? I’m figuring if they will it will be well worth a 6 hour round trip to get stuff.
[quote]sublime wrote:
… I just wanted to inform the group here so hopefully no one gets their shit seized at Customs.[/quote]
Your efforts are greatly appreciated.
Does anyone know what the duties on the Biotest products are (roughly) excluding the shipping? I assume the duties will not change once the USPS shipping starts.
[quote]Raimisch wrote:
I know this should likely being going into a different thread, but seeing as all of us in Canada have likely at one time or another thought of this, one of you might have an answear for me. Will Biotest ship to US adressed P.O. boxes? I’m figuring if they will it will be well worth a 6 hour round trip to get stuff. [/quote]
The T-Nation order page clearly states that they will NOT ship to PO boxes. I have emailed TC about it but no response.
If USA PO boxes were ok I would make the drive too. Does anyone else know more about this?
[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
sublime wrote:
… I just wanted to inform the group here so hopefully no one gets their shit seized at Customs.
Your efforts are greatly appreciated.
Does anyone know what the duties on the Biotest products are (roughly) excluding the shipping? I assume the duties will not change once the USPS shipping starts.
[/quote]
Not sure if this example applies but I have bought a ton of stuff from Amazon.com (US) and I have never paid duty. The last order was for about $250.00 US worth of stuff.
Amazon.ca wanted more $$ even after the exchange rate so I ordered from the US. Maybe there are different rules for supps?
duties are all over the place. My monthly order from Biotest is around $250US. I normally pay about 27 bucks CAD for brokerage and duties to fedex at time of delivery. However, on three different occasions, I got nailed with 60 dollar duty. I think its a crapshoot with customs officials.
[quote]sublime wrote:
You would have thought I was asking for permission to import heroin.
[/quote]
No one would ever ask for permission to import heroin. It’s the legit stuff they nail you on.
[quote]JNG wrote:
duties are all over the place. My monthly order from Biotest is around $250US. I normally pay about 27 bucks CAD for brokerage and duties to fedex at time of delivery. However, on three different occasions, I got nailed with 60 dollar duty. I think its a crapshoot with customs officials.[/quote]
so your total delivery charge most of the time for 250US is 27 bucks CAD?
[quote]notafob wrote:
so your total delivery charge most of the time for 250US is 27 bucks CAD?[/quote]
well 250 US plus usually 50 US shipping from Biotest, then around 27 CAD when it crosses the border.
I’ve worked it all out. Even with 50 US for shipping and 27 for duties, you still save money by buying direct as opposed to the canadian online retailers. Of course the bigger your order, the more you save.
I have had HOT-ROX delivered twice to Canada, with no troubles. However, I am always leary that they won’t make it. My last order was for 4 boxes of Metabolic Drive Bars, and I don’t have the bill in front of me, but if I recall, the FedEx charges were BIG, close to 40 bucks US, and customs hit me for $28 Canadian or something too. The biggest pissoff was that FedEx tried twice to deliver the stuff to my door, and no one was home. So, I had to go to the FedEx office at Vancouver International Airport to get the stuff.
If these freakin’ Metabolic Drive Bars weren’t so good, I’d buy something locally. I think they are costing me close to $3 Can apiece. But that’s about what most decent protein bars cost in the store anyhow. My biggest whine is that my wife has taken a shine to the Peanut Butter Metabolic Drive Bars, which has pretty much doubled our consumption around here, and now, I’m going to have to start ordering TWICE as much. hehe
it’s too bad you all are not closer to mexico. no shipping charges here, just a quick 25 min trip over the border. plus the girls are as cheap as the booze. haha. pharmacies galore. all the anabolics your heart can desire. of course it get’s a litlle nerve recking when you cross back, but they are looking for real drugs. not the gear in my spare, straped to the bottom of my suv. viva mexico.
[quote]JNG wrote:
notafob wrote:
so your total delivery charge most of the time for 250US is 27 bucks CAD?
well 250 US plus usually 50 US shipping from Biotest, then around 27 CAD when it crosses the border.
I’ve worked it all out. Even with 50 US for shipping and 27 for duties, you still save money by buying direct as opposed to the canadian online retailers. Of course the bigger your order, the more you save.
[/quote]
yah no doubt i bet, i order all the way to Hong Kong and shipping adds up but still cheaping than all supplement brands here! and luckily HK is a free trade city where customs dont give much of a damn what comes through the mail! (or as it seems)
I agree with the discrepancies part… I have ordered every (chemical) supplement Biotest has made and never had a problem; this includes MAG-10 back in the day. Thanks for doing the research.
I second the other question? any news on when USPS delivery will be available?