T Nation

Canada Care Is in Trouble!

[quote]Thomas Gabriel wrote:
But what if it’s not that they don’t understand how economics works, but rather that they just don’t care about making productive people pay? I don’t think it is all stupidity, it is also immorality.[/quote]

I was trying to be optimistic. Ignorance is forgivable. Evil is not.

[quote]orion wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Stronghold wrote:

This thread makes me laugh. Motherfucker from Tennessee trying to tell Canadians about how awful Canadian health care is.

I suppose this viewpoint works in reverse when Canadians weigh in on anything related to the US?

Good to know.

Oh no, because we are clever and sophisticated and you watch Nascar.

[/quote]
I think every culture has stupid sports to keep the masses occupied. Fussball certainly seems to fit that category the world over.

[quote]orion wrote:

Oh no, because we are clever and sophisticated and you watch Nascar.[/quote]

You’re Canadian now?

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
orion wrote:

Oh no, because we are clever and sophisticated and you watch Nascar.

You’re Canadian now?[/quote]

No, just clever and sophisticated!

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
orion wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Stronghold wrote:

This thread makes me laugh. Motherfucker from Tennessee trying to tell Canadians about how awful Canadian health care is.

I suppose this viewpoint works in reverse when Canadians weigh in on anything related to the US?

Good to know.

Oh no, because we are clever and sophisticated and you watch Nascar.

I think every culture has stupid sports to keep the masses occupied. Fussball certainly seems to fit that category the world over.[/quote]

Not the way the English play it. It is practically a bar room brawl with a ball.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Unaware wrote:

What do you guys think of the notion of eliminating health insurance entirely. That way, neither government nor corporate bureaucrats have any say in my health care because I’m the only one footing the bill. I seem to remember seeing some projections that suggest that eliminating health insurance altogether would actually lower the average amount of money spent on healthcare. I can’t find the reference as it was something presented in one of my classes several semester ago, but its an interesting idea.

What would be the point in banning insurance? If these plans weren’t competitive, people wouldn’t buy them.

The argument I saw was that the existence of the insurance industry increases the cost of health care, so that by removing that variable…

  1. cost to consumers would fall
  2. people would be less frivolous with their doctor’s visits and prescriptions (because they aren’t “free”)
  3. people would be more fiscally responsible and be more apt to put money away for a rainy day in case of a real emergency rather than assuming that their insurance would just take care of whatever came up and not planning for the future

I also like the idea because insurance companies (I think purposefully) confuse the fuck out of me. I’ve been on the phone with 20 different people in the past 3 days trying to find out if my coverage is effective yet. I much prefer a system where I want something, so I take some money and pay for it. None of this twelve different forms in triplicate bullshit.[/quote]

Marxism!

And no, no kidding that is a classic Marxist argument, as in Marx made it and was wrong.

Because you see, capitalism will ultimately fail because so much money is squandered by competition. The ads, the whole marketing departments, the constant struggle to beat your competitors…

How much better would it be when we just a) eliminated profits and b) worked WITH instead of AGAINST each other to maximize the common good.

So, you see, socialism MUST prevail and capitalism is sure to fail any day now.

P.S: Every time a new generation makes arguments that were debunked 150 years ago and yet want to take over 20% of an economy I think a little less of my fellow human beings.

I mean I, personally, would want to be really sure I knew which was what before I took over a billion dollar industry and force 300 million people to join it.

But maybe I am just a truly humble soul.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
orion wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Stronghold wrote:

This thread makes me laugh. Motherfucker from Tennessee trying to tell Canadians about how awful Canadian health care is.

I suppose this viewpoint works in reverse when Canadians weigh in on anything related to the US?

Good to know.

Oh no, because we are clever and sophisticated and you watch Nascar.

I think every culture has stupid sports to keep the masses occupied. Fussball certainly seems to fit that category the world over.[/quote]

Look we train gay horses!

What could possibly be stupid about that?

[quote]orion wrote:
Look we train gay horses!

What could possibly be stupid about that?
[/quote]

I thought they were Spanish horses von der Spanishe Reiten Schule…?!

You Austrians get a free pass on this one.

[quote]orion wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Unaware wrote:

What do you guys think of the notion of eliminating health insurance entirely. That way, neither government nor corporate bureaucrats have any say in my health care because I’m the only one footing the bill. I seem to remember seeing some projections that suggest that eliminating health insurance altogether would actually lower the average amount of money spent on healthcare. I can’t find the reference as it was something presented in one of my classes several semester ago, but its an interesting idea.

What would be the point in banning insurance? If these plans weren’t competitive, people wouldn’t buy them.

The argument I saw was that the existence of the insurance industry increases the cost of health care, so that by removing that variable…

  1. cost to consumers would fall
  2. people would be less frivolous with their doctor’s visits and prescriptions (because they aren’t “free”)
  3. people would be more fiscally responsible and be more apt to put money away for a rainy day in case of a real emergency rather than assuming that their insurance would just take care of whatever came up and not planning for the future

I also like the idea because insurance companies (I think purposefully) confuse the fuck out of me. I’ve been on the phone with 20 different people in the past 3 days trying to find out if my coverage is effective yet. I much prefer a system where I want something, so I take some money and pay for it. None of this twelve different forms in triplicate bullshit.

Marxism!

And no, no kidding that is a classic Marxist argument, as in Marx made it and was wrong.

Because you see, capitalism will ultimately fail because so much money is squandered by competition. The ads, the whole marketing departments, the constant struggle to beat your competitors…

How much better would it be when we just a) eliminated profits and b) worked WITH instead of AGAINST each other to maximize the common good.

So, you see, socialism MUST prevail and capitalism is sure to fail any day now.

P.S: Every time a new generation makes arguments that were debunked 150 years ago and yet want to take over 20% of an economy I think a little less of my fellow human beings.

I mean I, personally, would want to be really sure I knew which was what before I took over a billion dollar industry and force 300 million people to join it.

But maybe I am just a truly humble soul.

[/quote]

I’m not saying anyone should take over health care besides for consumers. Health insurance (whether it be government sponsored or private) takes the “free” out of “free market”. Insuring against a universal constant is a losing deal unless you’re going to pull some tricks to get out of your end of the bargain.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
orion wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Unaware wrote:

What do you guys think of the notion of eliminating health insurance entirely. That way, neither government nor corporate bureaucrats have any say in my health care because I’m the only one footing the bill. I seem to remember seeing some projections that suggest that eliminating health insurance altogether would actually lower the average amount of money spent on healthcare. I can’t find the reference as it was something presented in one of my classes several semester ago, but its an interesting idea.

What would be the point in banning insurance? If these plans weren’t competitive, people wouldn’t buy them.

The argument I saw was that the existence of the insurance industry increases the cost of health care, so that by removing that variable…

  1. cost to consumers would fall
  2. people would be less frivolous with their doctor’s visits and prescriptions (because they aren’t “free”)
  3. people would be more fiscally responsible and be more apt to put money away for a rainy day in case of a real emergency rather than assuming that their insurance would just take care of whatever came up and not planning for the future

I also like the idea because insurance companies (I think purposefully) confuse the fuck out of me. I’ve been on the phone with 20 different people in the past 3 days trying to find out if my coverage is effective yet. I much prefer a system where I want something, so I take some money and pay for it. None of this twelve different forms in triplicate bullshit.

Marxism!

And no, no kidding that is a classic Marxist argument, as in Marx made it and was wrong.

Because you see, capitalism will ultimately fail because so much money is squandered by competition. The ads, the whole marketing departments, the constant struggle to beat your competitors…

How much better would it be when we just a) eliminated profits and b) worked WITH instead of AGAINST each other to maximize the common good.

So, you see, socialism MUST prevail and capitalism is sure to fail any day now.

P.S: Every time a new generation makes arguments that were debunked 150 years ago and yet want to take over 20% of an economy I think a little less of my fellow human beings.

I mean I, personally, would want to be really sure I knew which was what before I took over a billion dollar industry and force 300 million people to join it.

But maybe I am just a truly humble soul.

I’m not saying anyone should take over health care besides for consumers. Health insurance (whether it be government sponsored or private) takes the “free” out of “free market”. Insuring against a universal constant is a losing deal unless you’re going to pull some tricks to get out of your end of the bargain.[/quote]

So you are against MANDATORY insurance?

Because if someone wants to make that bad deal he can, right?

[quote]orion wrote:

So you are against MANDATORY insurance?

Because if someone wants to make that bad deal he can, right?

[/quote]

Yeah, like I said…if I want something, I pay for it. I’d like to see the whole healthcare industry be that way instead of the clusterfuck it has become.

Thought this was an interesting article.

http://freep.com/article/20090820/BUSINESS06/908200420/1319/

[quote]pushharder wrote:

In fact, Push’s Supremely Super Duper Plan for Miniaturizing the Federal Goliath and the Creation of Nano D.C. is to de-develop the federal government to where it can only do the following:

Help coordinate the design and construction of an interstate highway system (DONE).

Sign treaties and fight wars (DONE AND YET TO BE DONE).

Stay the crap out of practically everything else under the sun.[/quote]

And when you say “fight wars,” it should be made clear that it will be our elected officials in the federal government themselves that will be fighting the wars: no subcontracting it out to citizens of the several States.

EDIT: It’s actually really funny that you should say this, Push, because I was having a conversation with a lovely young lady yesterday about this very subject. I made the point that the Federal Government was essentially unnecessary for just about everything, with the exception of waging war and building roads.

Great minds, and all that.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

I think every culture has stupid sports to keep the masses occupied. Fussball certainly seems to fit that category the world over.[/quote]

Are we talkin’ fussball (as in wie sagt man soccer auf deutsch), or fussball as pictured above? Because in that case I agree.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

I think every culture has stupid sports to keep the masses occupied. Fussball certainly seems to fit that category the world over.

Are we talkin’ fussball (as in wie sagt man soccer auf deutsch), or fussball as pictured above? Because in that case I agree.[/quote]

Why can’t we both be right?

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

I think every culture has stupid sports to keep the masses occupied. Fussball certainly seems to fit that category the world over.

Are we talkin’ fussball (as in wie sagt man soccer auf deutsch), or fussball as pictured above? Because in that case I agree.[/quote]

How dare you!