T Nation

Canada Care Is in Trouble!

[quote]Reef wrote:
John S. wrote:
Your own people are telling you its collapsing around you.

And its the same people who told you you needed to nationalize it.

Edit*

That’s fine. But MY experience has been good. I was just sharing my opinion.[/quote]

Well my experience has been nothing short of amazing here. I am sure you health care is fine for now, but like they said its starting to develop problems that the only way to fix is to bring private back into it. You can not deny that many people leave Canada to come here to get treated.

[quote]John S. wrote:
Reef wrote:
John S. wrote:
Your own people are telling you its collapsing around you.

And its the same people who told you you needed to nationalize it.

Edit*

That’s fine. But MY experience has been good. I was just sharing my opinion.

Well my experience has been nothing short of amazing here. I am sure you health care is fine for now, but like they said its starting to develop problems that the only way to fix is to bring private back into it. You can not deny that many people leave Canada to come here to get treated.

[/quote]

For sure, our system has a lot of problems. It’s nowhere close to perfect but I just wanted to show that a lot of the problems people mention are exaggerated. It is true though that some of the wealthier Canadians have gone to the US to get treated at the state-of-the-art institutions like the Mayo/Cleveland Clinic.

I’m just going to move to France for their health care.

I gotta admit, the health care system has been really good for me too. I would still rather we pay less taxes though. For any services I’ve used, I’d rather pay cash.

[quote]Thomas Gabriel wrote:
I gotta admit, the health care system has been really good for me too. I would still rather we pay less taxes though. For any services I’ve used, I’d rather pay cash. [/quote]

Percentage wise how much is it? I think people don’t really understand here in the US what universal care is going to cost the productive people who are going to have to pay for it.

Poor people don’t care about the added tax increase because they don’t understand economics – all they think about is “free” stuff they not going to have to pay for.

This thread makes me laugh. Motherfucker from Tennessee trying to tell Canadians about how awful Canadian health care is.

Good show guys, way to prove your point.

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[quote]pushharder wrote:
I can honestly say that all of my personal encounters with the US health care system and those in my immediate family have been positive. Sooooooooooo…by the same measure mentioned by the Canadians above the US health care system is just plumb fine and dandy and in need of no criticism or changing.[/quote]

I’m assuming you have health insurance though. You have not had a family member denied coverage on the basis of PEC. You have not had to visit an emergency room when a condition that could have been easily treated at a doctor’s office becomes an actual emergency because you didn’t have a way to pay for that doctor’s visit.

The problems with the American health care system are unlike the horror stories being distributed by certain conservative media outlets in that they are widespread and well documented.

Please tell me you were able to find the humor in people from Iowa and Tennessee telling Canadians about how awful Canadian health care is. Just goes to show that Rush Limbaugh and Fox News are the ultimate authority on all things.

Its funny, but I personally know two people that have had substandard care due to not having insurance at the time and both of these people think government run healthcare is rediculous. They know not having insurance was their own fault and they now deal with the consequences of that.

Also if people not being able to buy insurance due to pre-existing conditions is such a problem then obama could just make a law requiring health insurance companies to not block people with PECs correct? Granted I am with the few others here are think the gov’t should get out of healthcare completely.

I really don’t see what the issue is here anymore… the 47 million people not covered issue is bs, the PEC issue is bullshit(as this newawesomereform still allows people to be denied due to pecs), the “rich” aready pay enough in taxes, and it is bullshit the gov’t wants to cover illegals… yeah great idea, lets put the health insurance incentive in writing so that they REALLY want to hop that border.

[quote]MikeyKBiatch wrote:

and it is bullshit the gov’t wants to cover illegals… yeah great idea, lets put the health insurance incentive in writing so that they REALLY want to hop that border.[/quote]

Seven Falsehoods About Health Care
Big myths about the current debate

False: Illegal Immigrants Will Be Covered

One Republican congressman issued a press release claiming that “5,600,000 Illegal Aliens May Be Covered Under Obamacare,” and weâ??ve been peppered with queries about similar claims. Theyâ??re not true. In fact, the House bill (the only bill to be formally introduced in its entirety) specifically says that no federal money would be spent on giving illegal immigrants health coverage:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 â?? NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on       behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

Also, under current law, those in the country illegally donâ??t qualify for federal health programs. Of interest: About half of illegal immigrants have health insurance now, according to the nonpartisan Pew Hispanic Center, which says those who lack insurance do so principally because their employers donâ??t offer it.

â?? by Brooks Jackson, Viveca Novak, Lori Robertson and Jess Henig

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

This thread makes me laugh. Motherfucker from Tennessee trying to tell Canadians about how awful Canadian health care is.[/quote]

I suppose this viewpoint works in reverse when Canadians weigh in on anything related to the US?

Good to know.

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This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
pushharder wrote:
I can honestly say that all of my personal encounters with the US health care system and those in my immediate family have been positive. Sooooooooooo…by the same measure mentioned by the Canadians above the US health care system is just plumb fine and dandy and in need of no criticism or changing.

I’m assuming you have health insurance though. You have not had a family member denied coverage on the basis of PEC. You have not had to visit an emergency room when a condition that could have been easily treated at a doctor’s office becomes an actual emergency because you didn’t have a way to pay for that doctor’s visit.

The problems with the American health care system are unlike the horror stories being distributed by certain conservative media outlets in that they are widespread and well documented.

Please tell me you were able to find the humor in people from Iowa and Tennessee telling Canadians about how awful Canadian health care is. Just goes to show that Rush Limbaugh and Fox News are the ultimate authority on all things.

I’ve had health care with and without health insurance and used to work in the industry back in the 90s.

I have Canadian friends who have had good experiences with their system. I also know beyond a shadow of a doubt that many Canucks come south of the border for treatment. NO ONE drives, flies, rides a donkey, snowmobiles, hang glides, skateboards or walks north of the border to get care.

My original point is if Canadians can say, “I’ve had no problem with my health care system so everybody quit rippin’ on it,” then I can say the same about the American system. The facts are that both systems have their problems but only ONE nation’s citizens seek care in the other country. And that is telling, my friend. That one salient point packs quite a wallop.[/quote]

And I know of an American couple who moved to Oslo for a year in order to have their child. People travel to the US for care because the US is a center of medical research and experimental treatment options are more easily obtained here. The overall quality of care in the United States is actually remarkably low when compared to other nations…even those with socialized health care.

What do you guys think of the notion of eliminating health insurance entirely. That way, neither government nor corporate bureaucrats have any say in my health care because I’m the only one footing the bill. I seem to remember seeing some projections that suggest that eliminating health insurance altogether would actually lower the average amount of money spent on healthcare. I can’t find the reference as it was something presented in one of my classes several semester ago, but its an interesting idea.

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[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Thomas Gabriel wrote:
I gotta admit, the health care system has been really good for me too. I would still rather we pay less taxes though. For any services I’ve used, I’d rather pay cash.

Percentage wise how much is it? I think people don’t really understand here in the US what universal care is going to cost the productive people who are going to have to pay for it.

Poor people don’t care about the added tax increase because they don’t understand economics – all they think about is “free” stuff they not going to have to pay for.[/quote]

Average income tax average rate is around 20%. Accomplished people can get to 30% average pretty easily. We also pay a lot more add-on taxes. Lots of provinces have a 13% total sales tax. Something not often mentioned is that many provinces have a health care tax that employers usually pick up. Many employers pay for drug plans, but if someone is not covered, they usually end up paying for a drug plan.

I think you’re right about poor people not caring about tax increases. But what if it’s not that they don’t understand how economics works, but rather that they just don’t care about making productive people pay? I don’t think it is all stupidity, it is also immorality.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

The overall quality of care in the United States is actually remarkably low when compared to other nations…even those with socialized health care.[/quote]

That is bullshit.

I think this is a very interesting idea myself. I would be for experimenting with this myself. The more involved the consumer is the more power they have, and right now the consumers are hidden behind a veil of hidden charges and insurance premiums that keeps their power lower.

No doubt such a system change would cause some rather severe short term growing pains though. I doubt people will want to deal with that, and the need for increased fiscal responsibility that plan would require. I’d be for it though.

[quote]

What do you guys think of the notion of eliminating health insurance entirely. That way, neither government nor corporate bureaucrats have any say in my health care because I’m the only one footing the bill. I seem to remember seeing some projections that suggest that eliminating health insurance altogether would actually lower the average amount of money spent on healthcare. I can’t find the reference as it was something presented in one of my classes several semester ago, but its an interesting idea.[/quote]

What would be the point in banning insurance? If these plans weren’t competitive, people wouldn’t buy them.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Stronghold wrote:

This thread makes me laugh. Motherfucker from Tennessee trying to tell Canadians about how awful Canadian health care is.

I suppose this viewpoint works in reverse when Canadians weigh in on anything related to the US?

Good to know.[/quote]

Oh no, because we are clever and sophisticated and you watch Nascar.

[quote]Unaware wrote:

What do you guys think of the notion of eliminating health insurance entirely. That way, neither government nor corporate bureaucrats have any say in my health care because I’m the only one footing the bill. I seem to remember seeing some projections that suggest that eliminating health insurance altogether would actually lower the average amount of money spent on healthcare. I can’t find the reference as it was something presented in one of my classes several semester ago, but its an interesting idea.

What would be the point in banning insurance? If these plans weren’t competitive, people wouldn’t buy them.[/quote]

The argument I saw was that the existence of the insurance industry increases the cost of health care, so that by removing that variable…

  1. cost to consumers would fall
  2. people would be less frivolous with their doctor’s visits and prescriptions (because they aren’t “free”)
  3. people would be more fiscally responsible and be more apt to put money away for a rainy day in case of a real emergency rather than assuming that their insurance would just take care of whatever came up and not planning for the future

I also like the idea because insurance companies (I think purposefully) confuse the fuck out of me. I’ve been on the phone with 20 different people in the past 3 days trying to find out if my coverage is effective yet. I much prefer a system where I want something, so I take some money and pay for it. None of this twelve different forms in triplicate bullshit.