T Nation

Can You Take Winstrol Without Test?

Can you take Winstrol alone with no testosterone? What’s the longest you can take Winstrol?

You can do anything that you set your mind to, we believe in you.
Seriously though, it’s not the best plan.

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You can certainly do it. You will most likely feel like crap. And your joints will feel as though you have sand in them.

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I would only take it without test for a week or two coming up to a bodybuilding/physique show to fully dry out before stepping on stage. Otherwise, no I would not take it without testosterone or at least Dianabol (if the winny is injectable).

SB

The fuck are you talking about? Dbol is certainly a valid substitute for testosterone

The “you need test as a base is bullshit”… where the fuck do you get off talking to people like this?

Explain to me why testosterone is “required”… if it’s to “replace the test you’re shutting down”… you realise you’re shutting down you’re natural testosterone production injecting exogenous test right? The only factors one “needs” in the short term whilst on cycle is adequate neurological regulation, of which dbol can more than compensate for… sure, it’s individualistc, dbol makes me feel shitty, but for most the spike in dopamine, the aromatisation and androgenicity provided in itself and through its 5a reduced metabolite dehydromethyldihydroboldenone (m1T) is good enough to act as a brief replacement

But seriously, if you’re going to talk like this

Then get the fuck out of here, this is a community wherein people can come for advice, to ask questions… and that’s how we learn, if you’re going to be a dick then get out

Should also be mentioned singhbuilder has qualifications within the field of hormonal research if I recall correctly

If you disagree with someone’s ideology then by all means… call them out, but name calling and showcasing outward disrespect is no way to go about providing constructive criticism/voicing you’re opinion

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Damn I like this new side of unreal24278 we have been seeing around here lately! Calling people out on thier tren nonsense and now telling this person to “get the fuck out of here”.

I like it! Keep it up man! Let your nuts swang!

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So can I take Winstrol with no test for like 2 months? Just to cutt.

No do not do that. It’s a really bad idea that you will regret for many reasons.

Don’t take this personally or as an insult but Its pretty clear you have no real understanding of how steroids work and in this case especially winstrol…

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Listen knuckleheads you just need gear and peanut butter sandwich. Jk.

Really, op needs to understand this stuff better before starting. Keep reading and learning.

The issue with winny solo is that you will most likely feel terrible, your joints will hurt and you probably won’t be able to get a hard on. It’s not worth it.

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Super Saiyan Unreal FTW! Way to go putting people in their place. The honesty is much appreciated brother.

I LOL’ed!

SB

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Please do tell us your academic credentials. Unreal is on his way to being a pharmacist if im correct. Judging by your post, grammer and spelling you haven’t ever been to school.

SB

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Who cares what his test levels are… on dbol/winny they’ll be zero

There have been numerous pharmaceuticals designed to replace testosterone that aren’t testosterone… fluoxymesterone, methyltestosterone, mesterolone, dihydrotestosterone preparations have all existed in the past… or currently do exist as an FDA/TGA approved medications to treat hypogonadism. Are they optimal? No, but they will serve as adequate replacement if used for 4-6 weeks… for those with say… aromatase excess syndrome, androgen replacement with non aromatisable androgens is actually indicated for these individuals long term. (Note, aromatase excess syndrome is a very rare autosomal dominant genetic disorder)

Not pharmacy… I didn’t think about that, I only applied to biomedical science (and got in). I’m deferring a year though to figure my own shit out/wrestle with my demons before college.

Lots of people will ask stupid questions, typically basic advice is dispensed and the individual is sent on their way to do their own research at that point…

I’ll answer however I want too, you appear to have the mentality of a twelve year old… you’re response here would’ve warranted had I called you out initially for no good reason… however in this situation you were the instigator… running you’re mouth will only get you so far in this world, eventually people will call you out on you’re bullshit. This sounds like the beginning of a wonderful keyboard warrior esque battle of wits, however I’m on holiday and quite frankly you’re not worth so much as another second of my time

I should say this, whenever you Introduce exogenous anabolic/androgenic hormones, you’re shutting yourself down and replacing naturally produced testosterone with whatever it is you’ve decided to take. Whether said replacement has the ability to replace the neurological benefits, the positive effect on bone mineral density etc is inconsequential within the span of 4-6 weeks… the notion of “if you don’t take test that’s stupid because you’re shutting down you’re natty test” is preposterous, you’re shutting down naturally produced testosterone regardless of whether you implement synthetic testosterone or not (key word there… synthetic), if you took winstrol alone (terrible idea, doesn’t have the properties required to adequately replace testosterone), you’d be shutting yourself down and stanozolol would in theory attempt to take on the role as testosterone, as all anabolics are merely analogs of testosterone/testosterone metabolites (DHT)

It may not be the healthiest option… but it works (short term) just fine for most (not winny, but say dbol). In the world of anabolics we have a lot of broscience/bs floating around, and people (whether such ideology is supported by science or not) will blindly follow and a certain aspect of mob mentality will form when anyone tries to question such flawed rhetoric… with T-Nation I pride this forum in being able to weed out a lot of the bullshit present in bodybuilding. Back in the day (and still some experiment and do fine) you’ll see many using EQ by itself, deca by itself (sometimes with say mast to serve as androgenic replacement)… it isn’t optimal, nor do I reccomend it (I never reccomend anabolic steroids, most haven’t a clue as to the risk they’re instilling long term, they just read some profiles and think “well great, it’s safe”, make up their minds and start blasting) but you’ll see many appear to feel fine on these cycles

I reiterate regarding my initial post to you… fuck off… if you’re going to insult (like an angst ridden teenager) rather than offer constructive criticism (like a well rounded adult) in response to someone legitimately coming in asking for help. You did offer you’re opinion… and recommended he use test alongside his winny, and that would’ve been fine if it wasn’t for this

Firstly, I’ll re-write you’re message so it’s both coherent and doesn’t make you look like a massive dick

Finally, as you’re grammar is atrocious I will perform correct you’re most recent message

Overall grade is about an E-

Not sure if I went too far here? Making fun of someone for a handicap beyond their control seems cruel to me… I just don’t like it when people mess with others who only intend to help (like singhbuilder)

None of us are perfect here, we all have our flaws/faults… but that’s not excuse to take out our anger, for whatever reason it’s harboured… out on others. I won’t take the moral high ground in this situation as I AM retaliating (aggressively) more and more frequently against what I perceive to be unethical behavior.

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Perhaps you should have done the same my friend.

Apologies if you have a genuine disability however, I do feel for you. However its no reason to act like a dick. Maybe you’re on too high of a dose of testosterone, or you may be in PCT hence why you’re acting like a bitch. Either way, people like you will not be tolerated on this forum.

Ah yes my apologies I remember now. Deferring from further/higher education or from your Bachelor’s degree? It would have benefited me to have done a year in industry after my bachelor’s before moving into my master’s but I just went all out. With no work experience after my masters, it did take me over a year to find a job however. Do what you need to do, I’m sure you’ll be fine either way.

SB

Deferring from the bachelors degree. I’ve finished up higher education/high school (thank goooooddddd)

Now I need to find a few part time jobs so I can work full time. I need the funds to make way for numerous personal expenses (guitar lessons etc), future travel and to be able to pay off university fees

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Ehhh this isn’t worth my time but honestly this back and fourth is entertaining so I’ll bite

There were zero “educated words” present within my prior responses, I didn’t link any literature. What you’re doing… for whatever reason… is picking an argument (and losing) with an 18 year old boy and looking like a massive jackass whilst doing so

This is one of the most immature things I’ve ever had a supposedly grown man say to me… surely you can’t actually be an adult? Is you’re ego seriously so large you that can’t just admit when you’re acting like a dick… I mean props to you if you legitimately believe you’re standing up for what you believe is right… but you seem like a massive douchebag at this point… I’m only being an asshole towards you because you… for whatever reason decided to start with singhbuilder and another individual who came here asking for help… you became aggressive (for no reason) before I called you out

Explain why this is the case? The rhetoric “you’ll lose everything because you’ll be shut down”… the same goes for a test cycle, after you go off the test for a while TT/FT will be damn near zero, there’s no difference between the time of which this would be the case when comparing test to dbol/winny or whatever… it isn’t optimal, as I’ve specified before… but for many it can be done…

You’re full stops, exclamation marks etc are always spaced too far apart… I think it may be in relation to the device you’re using. If you’re using an apple/google device or an old laptop, perhaps you’re operating system/iOS/software in general requires an update?

I don’t see what’s so funny about this, music has always been… and will always play a huge part in my life, I spend a few hours each day just listening to music… music has gotten me through some of my toughest times, I firmly believe if it weren’t for music I wouldn’t be here today… and I like to play musical instruments, I found a guitar teacher that teaches heavy metal esque playing (the right riffs, scales etc) and I think it’d be immensely helpful for my playing abilities to take lessons from this dude

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Also… it’s fuckING clown…

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Dude you dont need to explain yourself to this fool. He’s a fucking douchebag with no experience or research to back up any of his bullshit claims. He can barely speak English, arguing with an idiot is futile.

SB

I’m with @Singhbuilder on this one. Not worth your time my friend. I’m guilty as charged in these pissing contests and it just frustrates oneself for nothing. He’s never going to understand your complex level of thought.

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@straightnasty

Say this out loud “I am sofa king we Todd did”

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K, just need one more last post as the most recent one is the one I found most irritating due to the notion of dismissing those with suicidal ideation as “weak minded”

This is my last post towards you mate… this is like talking to a brick wall. I never said dbol was an apt substitute for long term TRT… the hepatotoxicity/strain on the cardiovascular system negates this purpose. Then again methyltestosterone was/is still occasionally used for TRT… TRT with c17aa compounds has been utilised in the past, and may still be an occurance today in third world countries and/or with practitioners who are still incredibly old school.

I’ve just finished up high school, not in college yet, and biomedicine doesn’t teach about the pharmacokinetics of dehydromethyltestosterone as it isn’t relevant to the course.

This is what irritates me… the way you view suicide/depression is incredibly close minded. Perhaps you don’t understand why someone would end it… yes, it’s selfish towards loved ones, friends etc… however the sheer amount of suffering one with serious neurological dysregulation can go through… the amount of suffering I was going through at the time was immense… I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. I don’t have to explain myself to you… but I will

Year after year of relentless bullying, receiving semi regular messages encouraging me to slit my wrists, getting beaten up in one of the only environments I thought I was safe in (very young when this one happened, probably about 10 but it had a lasting impact regarding my ability to trust others) chronic pain to the extent of not being able to go out and socialise normally (isolation induced by)… being stabbed in the back repeatedly by those you thought cared about you… repeated exclusion invoking feelings of inadequacy… it’s nothing compared what others have gone through, but in my isolated state, being left alone in my own thoughts had me believe there was no other way out

I haven’t been “suicidal” for a long time, and the majority of my past scars (literal and figurative lol, bulking up helped hide a looot of the past… literal damage) have healed up. It isn’t something I talk about because I don’t like talking about it… I still get nightmares/panic attacks at random times whenever I’m reminded or think a similar situation might unfold again, and I wasn’t perfect either, being in such an isolated state, being treated so badly at the time clouded my judgement of right and wrong and I ended up doing some horrible things that I regret very much (keep in mind this is age 12-14)… oh and something similar also happened at ages 8-10… problem is my past, whilst I don’t let it define who I am, it’s created some serious issues regarding trust, my ability to express emotion to others (actually that might just be autism haha)… there’s a lot more to it, but I don’t want to talk about it because it’s private.

I’m just saying, don’t judge a book by its cover… at the time my judgement was clouded, I didn’t think about the impact I had on others… I barely even knew the difference between right and wrong at the time, I just wanted everything and everyone to go away… I recall how people figured out what was going on, but it gives me goosebumps/brings tears to my eyes whenever I think about it… so I’m not going to write it down or think about it. I don’t know if you’re actually a massive asshole or if we simply got off on the wrong foot. Regardless I’m not going to argue with you anymore as it’s futile at this point. I’m not asking for sympathy, but I am explaining that it isn’t always as simple as it seems. Trying to downplay something like suicide is totally out of line/extremely disrespectful for many who suffer from depressive disorders.

I (indirectly, though we were semi friendly with one another) knew a girl who was repeatedly raped by a close relative, had a terrible home life… one day she took a bottle of oxycodone, ambulance rescicitated her… though she was (supposedly) clinically dead for a couple of minutes… clearly the girl was just weak minded right? Or her past traumas ate away at her, and being in such a terrible situation and being… I don’t know… I think 15 at the time couldn’t see another way out…

I’m sure you’ll reply with some oddly written insult, that’s fine… I’m just giving you my perspective regardless of whether it’s worth giving or not… I can always try correct what I perceive to be flawed ideology harboured by someone else

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