Can We Talk about Arimidex for a Second?

Haha thanks man :slight_smile: unlike a lot of docs I try to remain open minded and always learn. I’ve had some really good teachers as well.

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I’ve been on a steady dosage of Adex .5mg eod for 10 days now.
Had a TERRIBLE DAY today…
Yesterday was my normal injection day and I injected 300mg test cyp. at 8am.
I thought all would be well since my Adex dosage had been increased and stable for 8-9 days.

Anyway I’m a shift worker, worked last night and I got to bed at 5:30am this morning.
By 7:00 am I was wide awake with cold sweats and EXTREME ANXIETY ATTACK. I’m not normally subject to anxiety so it is very unnerving. I took an ambien and finally calmed down and got about 4 hours of sleep.

Today I had my blood drawn for E2 but it’s going to be several days before I see the results.

I think I should taper my Test dosage back down to my normal TRT dosage and try to get straightened out, but I’m so afraid to crash my Estrogen when I pull back my T dosage.
I’m really scared right now and could use any advice. This anxiety is no joke. It’s very serious and I want to get past it without any additional problems.

Thanks for your input.

To me it sounds like your esteogen is in the toilet.

Physio-
I really don’t know until I get my results…
But all this started about 2 weeks ago and I was only taking.5mg every 3 days of adex.
So when I started feeling bloated, lethargic, swollen fingers, night sweats, I automatically assumed that my E2 had climbed.

I hope the blood tests come back SOON!

Understand how half life works - let’s say a drug has a roughly three day half life. Let’s say you take .5mg of that drug on Monday. By Wednesday when you take the next dose you have about 1/3 of that drug in your system in addition to the next dose. So now we have .65 mg or so. On Friday now we have .25 plus .5 or so which is .75. And so on. And so on. And so on. This is how elimination works. People think half life means it’s gone. No. Half is gone. So if the half life of a drug 3 days it means after three days half is gone and half is left then another three days and a quarter is left. This is real world biochem. I can’t say this enough - the majority of patients do not require an aromatase inhibitor.

Have you had a metabolic panel run? How is your sleep? How is your digestion? Number one cause of high estrogen in men ISNT a test dose. It’s the bodies ability to eliminate excess.

I have to disagree with ksman about the “one week to stable bloods on arimidex” because the drug has overlapping half lifes. Yea after a week you can feel good and then go right to shit in other direction

I have not had a panel done since I started this “blast”.
My most recent testing was done in March while on my normal TRT dose of 100mg per week and everything was great. I was also feeling very good.

My sleep over the past 2 weeks is garbage. Very broken. Fall asleep easily but wake up every hour.
My digestion is also questionable… after drinking my post workout shake, I feel like I ate a water buffalo.
This is all new stuff starting about 2 weeks ago…

The anxiety and cold sweat is CRAZY. I literally lay still praying to God that it will stop and telling myself to calm down.
I’m very afraid and struggling right now.
Oh what I would give to just get back to where I was 6 weeks ago.

First step - relax. What you are feeling isn’t genuinely real. It is mental. To me it sounds like you have buried your estrogen and have consequently jacked your neurochems. So what you need to do is breathe. Breathe a lot. Relax and know this is temporary. Back off your test dose slightly and dump the Arimidex. Tell me about a day of food for you - what’s it look like?

This Kind of stuff is what I mean - people assume they need an AI because they read it on a forum but don’t understand the fallout for most people.

I appreciate your advice and the time…
believe me when I say that speaking about this and hearing other people’s responses is very comforting.

Typical food day:
Breakfast- 3 oven baked eggs, 4 microwave breakfast sausage links on low carb tortillas (2)

Snack- pineapple chunks and a couple of ounces of cashews

Work out
2 scoops of Trutein in a shake. fruit. Nuts.

Lunch
Low carb tortillas (2 or 3) wrapped around turkey or ham cold cuts with cheese.

Afternoon snack “Complete Cookie” or Combat Protein bar with more cashews or fruit.

Dinner- subway sandwich with chicken and bacon with veggies. Or something similar.

Last night at work it felt like I was getting Anxiety, so I ate my turkey wraps and I felt a lot better immediately after.

Perhaps it’s time to increase your carbs. Carbs have a direct relation to serotonin production. Low estrogen wipes out your serotonin. So let’s start there. Perhaps we bump your carbs slightly up.

You are going to be ok man. I promise :slight_smile:

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Ok!
If it’ll make me feel right again I’ll eat a 5 gallon bucket full of Ben and Jerry’s

Haha. Don’t change too much. Back your test dose off and drop the arimidex. Up your carbs - especially right before bed - will help you sleep. If that doesn’t help enough look into Phosphatidylserine at 800 mg pre bed. Should work wonders. You will be ok.

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Consider dropping your test down to 450 a week split into 3 injections. I’m guessing you have 300 mg / ml gear. Shoot 5cc m w f. That’ll help your blood levels stay a little more stable.

I was thinking about dropping down to 300/week total but wasn’t sure if I would create more problems changing so many things at once.
It will all be so much more clear when the blood results come back.

Again. - the blood work will only show you a snapshot. It’s like using a flashlight in a cave - you only see that exact moment. Hormones cycle daily. What matters much more is how you feel.

I completely understand the snap shot problem,
But if my snap shot comes back at 110 that’s a pretty good indicator of where I need to go…
Versus my snap shot coming back at 2

Anastrozole is used to modulate FT–>E2
E1 and E3 are side issues once E2 is managed.

E2=22pg/ml - 80 pmol/L is a good target.

It take a week for a dose introduction or correction to reach final effects.

Anastrozole does not work well against large T level changes. T injections need to be twice a week or EOD.

No one should be taking about the effects of very low estrogens as those levels are not the goals, but are dosing errors to be corrected. Drug side effect info for women with E2–>zero does not belong in this conversation.

No. E1 and e3 are in fact essential as they act as reservoirs for e2. Also the side effect studies of a medication that was developed for women and have been studied almost exclusively for women are relevant. Estrogens role in men is becoming more and more known over time. I have seen way more men crash their estrogen then actually have therapeutic benefit through AI use. It’s more helpful to find the source of the elimination issue. Also on standard tests including the ultra sensitive e2 test e3 can cause false positives for e2 and e1 is a reserve for e2. But please keep telling me they aren’t relevant. Anti estrogens are our clinics abolsure last resort. People in this forum pop them like it’s no big deal and have no clue the downstream effects. The studies done showing dangers of excess estrogen in men were not done on men taking androgen therapy. They were done with men who had low testosterone typically. The ratio of t to e is very important.

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In my case it appears that my worst sides are 24-36 hours after my injection.
This leads me to believe that my E2 conversion is at its peak during those hours when my Testosterone numbers are highest. So I really think my E2 is elevated and causing my problems.

My last pin was Monday morning. With Tuesday morning being horrible and problems slowly tapering down from there.
I’m due for my next pin Thursday night.
What are you guys’ thoughts on cutting my dose from 300mg down to 150mg. This should cause a smaller swing in E2 right?
Today has been a good day and I really want to keep it this way!
Thanks!

Take your injections to 100 mg m w f. Wait two weeks and see how you feel.

Update for anyone who was following or interested.
Labs came back today…

Estradiol Sensitive at time of test was 144.8

Holy crap! No wonder I felt like a big ole girl!
I have brought my Testosterone injections down to 100mg 3x per week with .5mg of Anistrozole eod.
I’m feeling much better but still not quite back to normal.

Now I need to taper everything back down to my normal TRT dosage without crashing my E2

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