T Nation

Can Someone Explain Delayed Gyno?


#1

I've read on this site and others accounts of people who say a month or more after completing PCT they end up with a gyno flare up. I've even heard one guy say a month after finishing a Test E only cycle he started lactating. I understand some estrogen rebound can occur but months later?

trolls?
legit?
black magic?


#2

Lactation would be prolactin related, always.

Any androgen can elevate prolactin, even test. Depends on the user, and those levels do not tend to drop quickly, nor are they handled by SERM's or AI's.

"Delayed gyno" could have several factors. Normally its simply the user not respecting their drugs.

Primary cause. Stupidity. Using anything but a real, illegal, prescription drug as a PCT is not a PCT, even if users want to call it such. Estrogen fucks them straight up from the spike from the HPTA rebounding and being unbalanced when it does come back online. Or they have fake or underdosed drugs, either way youre still not doing it right.

Second most common. Not running their legitimate PCT drugs long enough. SERM's dont actually reduce estrogen at all, they block its effects, if during the PCT the SERM is blocking THE EFFECTS of your high estrogen level caused by your HPTA coming back online and attempting to stabilize, and you stop taking it...bam estrogen binds to receptors, you grow gyno, and anything inbetween. The SERM is really just covering your receptors till your body can stabalize itself on its own, this might take longer than "2 weeks" or some crap I see guys do with Prohormones, steroids are steroids, respect them.

The "tren" and "deca" prohormones especially are progestin based and can EASILY elevate prolactin as well as having direct progestin activity themselves, no surprises there.

Deca, tren, drol, alot of other actual steroids have pretty serious progestin activity and/or can elevate prolactin easily. Deca for example has a crazy long clearance time in the body, months. If the PCT is only 4 weeks, you still have deca in your system.

Even the most standard of all drugs, Test. If you get a longer half life version and dont give it enough time to clear your system, same issues.

And of course. ANY androgen can elevate prolactin levels, even test, even moderate doses, its just user dependent.

Only reliable method with steroids is being obsessively thorough.

I dont use long ester drugs, I always use an AI on cycle AND in the PCT, I always run long PCT's, and I stay on a low dose AI year round, regardless. I get regular blood work, and I use dopamine agonists when required.

Your buddy lactating from ONLY a Test E cycle. Possible. More likely he was running another drug that he didnt see fit to mention. Even a prohormone can mess stuff up if its the right one.

And like I said. If youre simply unlucky, any androgen can elevate prolactin, which SERM's and AI's do not fix, although they will limit the damage caused, only a dopamine agonist can correct the issue.


#3

I hope I'm not derailing the thread too much, but I've got a question for Westclock.

At the beginning of my PCT, my test was 127 but my estrogen was 49, up from my usual 15. Because of that, I'm also taking an AI along with Novla during my PCT. I do realize that Nolva limits the effectiveness of Adex.

I also realize that your case is a bit different because you stay on an AI year-round, from the sounds of it, but would one want to taper off AI usage towards the end of PCT and allow some sort of homeostasis to occur? Or just continue AI usage and stop at the same time Nolva is stopped?

Thanks in advance.


#4

Just because the effectiveness is being limited doesn't mean you still shouldn't take one.

If all you have is adex, use it, it works, its helping. Youre correct to use it.

Personally I use letro, its so strong nothing can really slow it down too much, and its cheap due to the fact that effective doses are really rather low. But its a tricky one that requires alot of playing around with and mistakes being made so you can learn from the experience.

Adex is a great drug, a spot on choice for most users.

The "correct" fix is to use Exemestane in the PCT, which is not affected by SERM's much and is still a brilliant AI.

Continue running the AI past the end of the SERM. They are fantastic test boosters and will help to keep everything perfectly stabilized. I would recommend at-least 2-3 weeks past the end of the SERM before dropping the AI, just because it speeds the process up, boosts test significantly, and keeps your head right too, high estrogen combined with estrogen fluctuations from the SERM itself, which are estrogens, can really mess with things, the AI is your rock, your base to prevent lunacy.

Drop both SERM and AI at the same time and the adjustment might be a bit uncomfortable to deal with. Taper off the AI slowly over the course of a week and everything will go as planned. Near perfect most of the time.

Look into to staying on an AI long term if you can afford to do so, letro is the cheap option. 2X to 4X times the test level combined with perfect estrogen levels is fantastic for keeping yourself ticking along nicely even when not cycling.


#5

thanks for the informative post