T Nation

Can It Really Be So Simple?

When I first joined I got a lot out of the articles.

Now I read them out of reflex. It doesn’t hurt (reading very rarely does), but I’ve stopped getting new ideas. Now I learn most in the gym itself.

The information on the site is cool. There’s nothing wrong with too much information. It’s thinking they need finesse in their program and diet when they really need brute force and effort.

Good thread.

[quote]triple-10sets wrote:
Tiny and weak ? Who are these people you speak of. And Bruce Lee was tiny. Would you also call him weak ? [/quote]

Yep

Otep re read the articles you started with…i find it quite interesting to read the stuff again with a broader perspective.

Also, is it realistic for the mods and editors to help clarify target audiences?

what i mean is:

when a new article hits…is it possible to give it an indication of what level you should be at to be considering the info?

I hear the T-Nation editors often defending certain items…saying that they were meant for advanced lifters…and that true beginners should stick to the basics.

and yes there are beginners threads…but the 1st thing you see today when you log in is the most recent articles, and to a beginner with no perspective, these advanced articles are as good a place to start as any other.

If it were me I would create a window above the articles with a sub menu detailing a range of ‘stages’ beginner, only fat loss, want to get bigger, intermediate etc etc

and have these link into some of the stickies for the appropriate group.

This would save alot of everyones time in the long run.

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
“The heavier I lift and the more I eat, the better my genetics get.”[/quote]

That was in one of thibs articles right? anyway love that quote.

Most people don’t combine intensity and science. they see an article with a terrific program set up and go to the gym and do it. Problem is they breeze through the motions of it and never really pick a resistance/Load that would really force them to push themselves and challenge their bodies. They do what that trainer said and the science behind it was sound, but the person couldve actually done another 3 sets with the weight he choose.

Bottom line most people arent physically/mentally tough to push THEMSELVES. and when things get to hard they quit.

there IS a correct way to do everything. the basics are intensity, rest and nutrition BUT there is a correct way to do those things, and an incorrect way.

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
“The heavier I lift and the more I eat, the better my genetics get.”[/quote]

slam dunk statement right there.

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
ovalpline wrote:
“The heavier I lift and the more I eat, the better my genetics get.”

slam dunk statement right there.[/quote]

To add to my statement on the previous page in light of this idea here, it will take the astute noob 6 months to a year before they have any notion of what their genetic potential is at all and probably longer than that to have a really good idea. It kills me seeing guys who’ve touched a dumbbell 4 times declaring what a hardgainer they are. Keeping with the simplicity theme, it is also my opinion that many MANY guys short themselves out right off the bat with mis or uninformed conclusions about their own potential before they are even near being in a position to know.

My brainless advice for new guys over and over has been to pick something, anything, designed for beginners, work it like your life depended on it and eat six meals a day. In a relatively short period of time you’ll begin to form ideas of how to adjust here and there. If you don’t form these ideas and are here after 8 years asking what routine to do next you are not cut out for serious weight training. That doesn’t mean you should quit and become a jiggling diseased slob, but don’t be shocked if people aren’t real eager to take your advice either.

[quote]chutec wrote:
Otep re read the articles you started with…i find it quite interesting to read the stuff again with a broader perspective.

Also, is it realistic for the mods and editors to help clarify target audiences?

what i mean is:

when a new article hits…is it possible to give it an indication of what level you should be at to be considering the info?

I hear the T-Nation editors often defending certain items…saying that they were meant for advanced lifters…and that true beginners should stick to the basics.

and yes there are beginners threads…but the 1st thing you see today when you log in is the most recent articles, and to a beginner with no perspective, these advanced articles are as good a place to start as any other.

If it were me I would create a window above the articles with a sub menu detailing a range of ‘stages’ beginner, only fat loss, want to get bigger, intermediate etc etc

and have these link into some of the stickies for the appropriate group.

This would save alot of everyones time in the long run.[/quote]

except you wont be buying tubs of Surge and Alpha Male. nothing against Biotest, ive used their products myself, i just dont think supplements do much.

i agree with the idea of somehow indicating what level of trainee the articles are intended for also. but when you think about it just about every article is going to be more advanced because if it were for begginers thered be nothing to talk about. heres a 5 star begginer article “get a split program, lift like an animal, eat. repeat for a year”. thats not interesting so instead people want to hear about angles, and muscle fibers, and the effects of tuna casserole on testosterone during a lunar eclipse. i dont want to sound like im bashing the site or the authors at all either.

i think theyre all very good at what they do its just really really easy for a noob to get caught up in all the technical shit especially when they dont have a grasp on the core basics. i can say it happened to me, i would walk around thinking i knew so much shit just because of this site, thankfully i have a good work ethic in the gym though.

[quote]will to power wrote:

I also think it’s funny that those who really have the skills in scientific fields don’t try to talk it up. Yourself, Scott M, etc don’t try to prove your intelligence with terminology.
[/quote]

This made me chuckle haha PX has “Dr.” in front of his name, I’m just a young idiot who’s listened to the guys who came before me and is following through with their advice. I hope people don’t view me as some kind of authority, I’m just paying my dues at this point.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This site used to be truly hardcore. There used to be quite a few guys who were very developed and understood what it took to get there. That has changed a lot over the past 5-6 years. Now, I would bet more than half of the posters here don’t lift at all. That won’t stop them from giving advice and confusing the shit out of new lifters.

There is no reason for most beginners to need even a small percentage of the articles on this site. Many of these articles are written like they are attempting to get Olympic hopefuls into shape. The average newbie these days doesn’t even understand hard work in the gym, so going on about carb cycling and v-diets when they are that clueless is hopeless.[/quote]

Amen. IMO this site has changed a lot just in the last year. I hardly post anymore since each time I mention something, I get flamed by some Dolce and Gabbana model wannabe for my “archaic” methods.
I totally agree on the articles as well. Telling guys to lift 2x day, super-high frequency, super-cool tweaks, advanced stability work. Geez.
You could write a good article with only one word: EFFORT.
If a trainee figures that one out, everything else is just icing on the cake.

i came here when i first started lifting weights about a year ago. it was kinda confusing. boy! did i get confused. then after a bit, i remembered the KISS principle - and just started lifting. period.

read about form & technique, checked out videos - learned about stretching to get the basics. i learned how to rehab joints (older folks got older joints y’know). i eat enough to grow and so that my lifting the next day isn’t compromised. no v-dieting or carb deprivation here. i just want to get strong.

i work out 6/7 days - i get up every AM at 4:00AM to do my workouts - i workout until i get the clear feeling time to quit (usually 60-90 minutes). i lift when i’m sore. i work thru it, i won’t baby it unless i absolutely have to. i increase my weights when i feel i am ready - i don’t want to risk injury that would keep me from lifting.

i finally found my own groove- probably would be frowned upon by a few here - it works for me - i’m making strength gains and that’s good enuf for me.

i am not a big person - 5’3", about 110# - i went from 0 chins/pullups to being able to 10 each. i deadlift and squat (below parallel) with 90#. (my goal is to try and double my weights by year-end.) i recently discovered barbell complexes & do them 4x a week before my regular workout.

i now simply train so that i can live my life very well. no make that extremely well. i plan to be an extremely fit corpse one day.

[quote]Scott M wrote:
It IS simple. What is the difference between the current you and your long term goal? In my mind it’s the amount of weight you can handle on your exercises and the amount of food you eat, and that’s it.

It’s so simple, but it’s not easy and that’s where we lose 98% of people. They want it now, and don’t want to put in 6 meals a day for 5 years straight, they don’t want to kill themselves in the gym 3-5 times a week for 5 years straight.

What would you look like if you never missed a meal and always killed it(and got stronger and stronger) every time you went to the gym for five years? [/quote]

Call me whatever the hell you want, but how do you even know if you are lifting ‘intensely’ enough? I know the Prof is probably having his head in his hands that on a BBing site this question is even being asked, but with what I read here I honestly sometimes question what ‘being intense’ really is.
Are you training ‘intensely’ when you can’t get the bar off of your chest anymore? Is it when you have bloodshot eyes after a deadlift? Or maybe when you are honestly scared to shit that you just won’t be able to rise out of that squat?

Really, I think I give my workouts everything I’ve got, and then I read a thread about how 98% of lifters are pussies and ‘haven’t got what it takes’ to build size. It frustrates me.

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
can be so simple that all you need to get big is to lift, and lift hard. if you want to be stronger, lift heavier -size will follow.[/quote]

Yes.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

That is why so many of these guys get so caught up in theory…it is easier to try to look smart on the internet than it is to actually make progress in the weight room.

What is even sadder is that most of the guys acting that way aren’t scientists or doctors. They are laymen who think they are now super skilled because they read a freaking article by a personal trainer.

It seems no one has the guts anymore to make it clear that some just don’t have it in them.[/quote]

Agreed. I think the overwhelming amount of info on T-Nation and other bodybuilding sites can be discouraging and only hold back a beginners progress. I remember when I started reading the site a few years ago back during the t-mag days, I learned a lot about good technique and good exercise selection but I’d always find myself jumping from program to program just because the author would put “This is the best program I’ve ever made” or something to that extent. I’d also be trying to use the right tempo, log all my lifts, use the best warm-up strategy, have precise rest periods and I found all this really did was kill my intensity and cause me to quit for a little while. To sum up my point…don’t try to utilize every piece of advice given to you,use what works for YOU.

Many people confuse “simple” with “easy”.

It’s simple to eat more at the right times, try to add a bit of weight progressively, and workout with the proper amount of intensity. But by no means is that sort of dedication and discipline easy.

You find the same thing with the “supplement of the moment” where someone thinks the next creatine is what’s missing from their diet and keeping them from changing their appearance. When most likely it’s too many or too few calories and not enough protein.

Something else I’ve read (forgot who said it) but I believe is that a bad program with intensity and progression is worth more than a good program done have ass. Who would have better wheels? A guy busting his ass every workout on the (gasp) leg press or a guy wandering through the king of all leg exercises, the squat?

That being said, once someone reaches a certain level (most likely not even a third of this board) then some complexity may be necessary. A competing BB will need to be a lot more specific than someone like me who needs to just eat more and try to increase compound totals.

[quote]Der Candy wrote:

Are you training ‘intensely’ when you can’t get the bar off of your chest anymore? Is it when you have bloodshot eyes after a deadlift? Or maybe when you are honestly scared to shit that you just won’t be able to rise out of that squat?

Really, I think I give my workouts everything I’ve got, and then I read a thread about how 98% of lifters are pussies and ‘haven’t got what it takes’ to build size. It frustrates me.[/quote]

If you are really doing all of the above (and aren’t just quitting because it burns or you’re tired or some other weak minded excuse), then count yourself among the 2% of lifters that aren’t pussies.

You have to remember that people are referring to all people who lift weights. Everything from frat boys doing endless sets of curls in the squat rack to Ronnie Coleman. That’s a lot of people. When you look at things from that perspective it’s pretty easy to see that only a very small percentage are actually pushing themselves and serious enough to be getting results (from a BB’ing perspective anyhow).

If you are among that small percentage, then don’t get upset. If you aren’t (and it’s fairly easy to tell by the results you’re getting), then be honest with yourself and either accept it, or do something about it and get serious.

[quote]Der Candy wrote:
Scott M wrote:
It IS simple. What is the difference between the current you and your long term goal? In my mind it’s the amount of weight you can handle on your exercises and the amount of food you eat, and that’s it.

It’s so simple, but it’s not easy and that’s where we lose 98% of people. They want it now, and don’t want to put in 6 meals a day for 5 years straight, they don’t want to kill themselves in the gym 3-5 times a week for 5 years straight.

What would you look like if you never missed a meal and always killed it(and got stronger and stronger) every time you went to the gym for five years?

Call me whatever the hell you want, but how do you even know if you are lifting ‘intensely’ enough? I know the Prof is probably having his head in his hands that on a BBing site this question is even being asked, but with what I read here I honestly sometimes question what ‘being intense’ really is.
Are you training ‘intensely’ when you can’t get the bar off of your chest anymore? Is it when you have bloodshot eyes after a deadlift? Or maybe when you are honestly scared to shit that you just won’t be able to rise out of that squat?

Really, I think I give my workouts everything I’ve got, and then I read a thread about how 98% of lifters are pussies and ‘haven’t got what it takes’ to build size. It frustrates me.[/quote]

If you’re wondering you probably have room for improvement, but there’s no way somebody can really “tell” somebody else how to work hard enough. If you want a reference point try some intensity techniques like drop sets or rest pause sets if possible. I’m no training superhero, but I just know if I could get in the same room with some of the guys on this site we could settle this pretty quick. Most guys would be amazed at what their body would do if their mind would decree it to be so. An important aspect of this is learning how to work the target muscles rather than just move the weight, again something that is difficult to teach in person nevermind across the internet.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
It is that simple, but that simple part takes more dedication and discipline than most people will ever be able to find in themselves. That is why this was never meant to be some mass pursuit of all human beings. All human beings don’t have it in them to hit the gym several days a week for years and years without fail. Most quit or become those who train “off and on”.
[/quote]

Interesting post. Because I was thinking the same thing about a totally different topic but it pretty much applies the same way.

[quote]Der Candy wrote:

Really, I think I give my workouts everything I’ve got, and then I read a thread about how 98% of lifters are pussies and ‘haven’t got what it takes’ to build size. It frustrates me.[/quote]

I think the comment was taken out of context. First off I do believe the vast majority of people do train like sissies, but what I meant by the 98% comment was not that specifically.

I do not have what it takes to become a ultra marathon runner. I’m not saying I don’t have the genetics or some BS like that, I don’t have the drive and desire to do what those men and women put themselves through to be able to do those things. No way no how could I put in 20+ miles a day on the road . I don’t know how they eat, but I’m sure some semblance of a good diet is necessary for them to perform that way.

Does this make me a pussy? No, it doesn’t. But if I went onto a runners forum and told all the other members that I wanted to be the best runner possible and compete in ultra marathons but offline I was jogging 2 miles a day when I felt like it and eating ding dongs and cupcakes daily I’d be absolutely kidding myself.

We get the same thing here. Guys that aren’t willing to put in the work(and this includes DIET) but say they want certain things. There actions and commitment isn’t showing it. We have people here who are delusional about what they have accomplished and can accomplish. Guys that want to compete that when they walk down the street “bodybuilder” is about the last thing on the average persons mind. See what I’m getting at here? If someone wants to be special they have to do something special to get there, if someone only puts in average work they are going to be average here.

[quote]Scott M wrote:
Does this make me a pussy? No, it doesn’t. But if I went onto a runners forum and told all the other members that I wanted to be the best runner possible and compete in ultra marathons but offline I was jogging 2 miles a day when I felt like it and eating ding dongs and cupcakes daily I’d be absolutely kidding myself.
[/quote]

Maybe you’d be kidding yourself, but you’d probably look better. Those guys look like shit.