T Nation

Can I Sterilize an Open Vial?


5 years wasted time/working on form/spinning wheels no nutrition
muscle up
3 years
adding muscle figured out macronutrient ratios began researching AAS

muscle up fat down
1 year off bouncing gaining weight
1 year powerlifting and gaining weight
jacked and fat

I'm only 3 1/2 years old
30% BF

315 squats and deads for reps, only real benchmarks i got, i work out alone, so no real benching just 100lb incline DB for reps
I have pushed month long clenbuterol in the past. with no results. Fake i dunno, so far nothing works as well as meat and veggies, some heavy *ss weight and a lot of time.

Mass is not the main focus.

I want to see how gear affects the fatloss time table(knowing full well that i will put on mass).

Of course my goal is still to be big.
Im not trying to run myself into the ground bean pole style.

Week 01-20: EW 250mg mL Test Enanthate
Week 12-20: ED 25 mg Winstrol tab
Week 23-24: EW 5000IU HCG (mixing 10000 IU and at time then refrigerating the other 5000 in the plunger for one week)
Week 23-25: ED 20mg Nolvadex
Week 26-28: ED 50 mg Clomid

Should I split the test and winstrol into two seperate runs?
10 weeks on instead of 20?
(I have enough PCT 2x what is mentioned above)(id rather save the second run of PCT for some harder gear)
Or Increase the Test dose?

I am looking for the lowest sides through reasonable blood levels and I want to regulate the lean mass gain with the protein/carb ratio keeping the fats constant and healthy, but main focus is to cut and increase DL, Squat, cleanandpress, see what kind of DBs i can pick up for overhead work.

I hate to admit it but i will be running Crossfit for cardio(dont worry im not drinking their "cool-aid") and MaxOT style body part lifting.
I know what it takes to gain and lean naturally,
i want to have the best cycle possible to guage weather AAS are worth the fuqin hassle.

That being said; Is there any way to also incorporate:

8mL 100mg/ml
Test Propionate
(about to expire)

8x sus a ton 375

100x20mcg clenbuterol
i will probably run the clen week on week off during the winny

Do I have any options for my limited quantity of prop or sus?
Supplement the test E with the Sustanon for atleast a few weeks to get rid of that sus?
Low dose in the Sus at the beginning?

When I do use the Prop can I bake it at 275 to sterilize? It has been popped and pinned for over a year, somebody used 1 or 2 mL of it. Hand me down from buddy. Please explain anything that could happen with this vail of prop.
im not sure if I should have health concerns regarding the sterility of the vail
with this Prop.
Viruses and bacteria can not survive that long, only protein based communicable diseases but apparently those are pretty rare in the first place. LMK

I might have given my self too many variables, but my main concerns are:
-being able to refrigerate the HCG
-is there a risk trying to use that Propianate
-even trying to incorporate my limitted prop. or susaton
-the winstrol might be fake or underdosed it carries the Ovation Pharma markings but it is white and i was told it was 25mg

(the only thing I can find on ovation are 2mg pink tabs which stopped manufacture back in 2003)(im hoping its a UG remake, but im not real optimistic about it)

I hope I didn't totally miss the mark in other spots.

Any little bits, or complete rehashes let me know, I lost my Anabolics 2006 so this setup is from memory and online resources.


Or just shut the fuq up and run the Enth for 10 weeks to see what happens?
Im just really skeptical of the gear i got, and really stoked at the same time.
The only thing I know for sure is real is the Susaton375.
Dammit theres my book, somebody throw me an anchor so i can get grounded, excited.

Thanks again


To be honest that is a very confusing post.

Is there a reason you have chosen a 20 week cycle with such a small amount of Test per week?

Why the Winny from week 12?

I am not an expert by any means, but I would think immediately from looking at your planned cycle that you would be better doubling the Test dose and the Winny dose and cutting the cycle down by half to 10 weeks. The Winny for only 6 weeks though.

In my limited experience it looks wrong.

Guys like Bushi, World, Brook, Bone etc will be able to give you better advice though.

I guess what I am trying to say is, search more, and definitely get a second opinion before starting that cycle.

Good luck.


Of all the crap you just wrote, one thing sounds right, effective and correct for you. That is this:

To begin with:

1) 20wks is too long.
2) 250mg/wk Test E is too low.
3) 25mg/d Winstrol is too low.
4) 8wks is too long for Winstrol
5) 5000iu HCG is too high.
6) Nolvadex/Clomid do the same thing.

Your cycle idea is terrible.. your information and knowledge is dated and not the most effective or safe way to use the drugs in question.

Instead of 20wksx250mg it would be better to use the same amount of drug in less time - same results - better even, but easier recovery.

Adding the Sust and prop to the Test E you have a total of 8800mg. Thats 8.8grams of Test.. more than enough for a decent cycle (inject the sust and prop daily, no arguments).

8 weeks of 25mg winstrol should be shorter and higher dose (25mg is barely noticeable) also.

Lets try:

Wk1-8 625mg Test E (312mg 2x/wk)
Wk5-8 350mg Winstrol (50mg/day)
Wk3-10 250iu HCG (3x/wk)
Wk11-14 40/40/20/20 Tamoxifen

You could add this to the cycle if desired:

Wk1-4 200mg Test P (~30mg/day)

If you wanted to use up the sust and prop, you could do so with the following cycle:

Wk1-8 Sustanon 375mg/wk (53mg/day)
Wk1-8 Test Enan 210mg/wk [30mg/day)
Wk7-10 Winstrol 350mg/wk (50mg/day)
Wk9-10 Test Prop 400mg/wk (~57mg/day)
Wk3-10 250iu HCG (3x/wk)
Wk11-14 40/40/20/20 Tamoxifen

This would get rid of the old drugs - using them up and saving half of the new Test E.

This would give a total Test dose of 585mg/wk for weeks 1-8 and 400mg prop/wk while the long esters drop during the last two weeks upto the PCT - to keep gaining during the potential down time.
The winstrol will have a decent test dose during its whole use, and will be able to be used right upto the PCT.

As you can see it is a hell of a lot simpler of a design (with a little extra thought) and it will be muuuch easier to recover from than 20wks at 250mg/wk - that i promise.

Length of time is more important than total dose when discussing recovery after suppressive cycles.

I personally would want to use up any old gear i had and would opt for the second option if i were you - if i were me, i'd run around 800mg test (all esters injected daily) for about 10 weeks with a frontload of 1200mg...




please do not feed the 3 1/2 year old troll





Adding the Sust and prop to the Test E you have a total of 8800mg. Thats 8.8grams of Test.. more than enough for a decent cycle (inject the sust and prop daily, no arguments).

Hi Brook

As patient and knowledgeable as always :slight_smile:

Just wondering why you insist on Sust being taken everyday?

I have heard the same for Prop, but am curious to hear about the Sust. I imagine it must have something to with the cocktail of compounds? Not sure.

Thanks again for all the help you give us on here man.


Prop has a half life of around 1.4 days (carbons x 0.7 = HL) and while EOD injections are enough to get results, the cycle will be more comfortable and have totally stable levels quickly with ED injections.

Sustanon has Propionate in it as the shortest ester.

It isnt a tragedy to inject sust 3x/wk TBH, as there are longer esters in it that will become stable enough with that dose, and the shorter estered testosterones will still be metabolised by the body - however if one opts for ED injects all 4 esters will build and peak quickly with full stability so there is less variance in Aromatase and 5-AR activity as is the case with less frequent but higher dose injections.

If you can find a bar graph online showing the difference in drug, estrogen and DHT levels in EOD dosing of a short ester and ED dosing, you would be convinced - for the life of me i can find the one that i saw.



I much favor ED injections for anything from propionate ester on down.

Higher injection frequency > lower injection frequency is a good rule to live by. If you don't like injecting, you should be using something like enanthate or cypionate, which I still would inject E3D.


Prop is 3 carbons, isn't it? 3x.7 = 2.1 days
Isn't that why sus is usually EOD as well as prop?

Acetate (2 carbons) 2x.7 = 1.4 days
Which is why anything with an acetate ester is done ED.


i think that's a little young to use gear, but what do i know?


brook's advice is the same as my own except that I would stop the HCG at the end of week 8 and leave week 9/10 off while the test is clearing.
this will allow the lydig cells to resensitize themselves to the effects of LH so that when you start the tamox in week 11 they should be very sensitive and respond well.


I am absorbing this all.

Comprehensive reply. Appreciate it.

I will definately opt for the half time therapy, since you seem very serious about that and I can follow the reasoning for sure.

Is there any way I can review the theory around, understand more regarding the smaller hcg doses Wk3-10 250iu HCG (3x/wk).

When I was introduced to HCG in llewellyn's book, he was saying something about loosing sensitivity to HCG quickly so three large doses at the end would be yeild better results than a series of small doses(Anabolics 2006, maybe that is that dated info you were talking about....or maybe it is just a theory either way?). LMK im down to understand.

Im willing to do whats best but i do want to make sure i can follow the reasoning.

The nolva and clomid was a fuq up on my part, I was trying to get ahold of Clomid and Arimidex i believe my brain jumbled.

I got to be honest I am sweating all the pins. I have never pinned myself before. Regardless its going to happen, But can anybody pass me some clarity about where to pin everyday for 70 days? Quad Delt Glute repeat? When I rotate back to body parts should I still be trying to avoid pinning the same spots? To be honest I am going to try to draw Brooks given quatities into the same plunger everyday and go that way, then put the majority in by inching up the quad. I really wasn't planning on ED so im caught a little off guard.

Not to mention the Sust is in amps so that either means 2 pins in a day since i have to house the Sust in another plunger or I'll get a sterile vial to store the Sust everytime I crack an amp?

So anyway I've bought in, anything you could add about the logistics of getting that shit piped in on an ED basis i would appreciate.

Thanks again, nice work.


Hey, it worked for for Bugs Bunny.

What, did you think Bugs beat the Gashouse Gorillas without steroids???


Thanks Brook.

The guy I got my Sust from told me to inject 2 x week (250mg) with My Decca. I'm glad I read your post.


You are right, my bad - i was thinking about Tren Ace for some reason... last drug i used which is probably why.

The thing is, if you think about it - after 2 days you manage to drop the drug level by a full half - then when you dose again, you inject twice as much to cover the time between jabs, giving much larger drug level variances.
If you inject daily the level stays moderately high and stable - with no fluctuation at all.

The argument still stands, i ALWAYS go for ED injects with Prop or ace and will always recommend the same.
Shit, if i run a longer ester with a shorter ester- i just inject both daily. It is due to 1) having to inject anyway, and 2) because i know that even with enanthate - if one was to inject daily it is STILL better, whilst not AS necessary as it is for a shorter ester.

JMO :wink: