T Nation

Can Atheists go to Heaven?

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

All I am hearing is the sound of you not reflecting on your choice.

It is deafening. [/quote]

How would you even hear it?

Firstly, we’re using text based communication.

Secondly, I’m not a dear diary type, so my ‘moments of profound meditation and reflection’ wouldn’t be written here. Nor has my own faith journey, spiritual life, and history been recorded here. So, forget hearing or reading, you’d have to be psychic.
[/quote]

Oh, I do not doubt that it took some “profound meditation and reflection” to worship a god that ordered Isaac on the altar or predestined his own son to be tortured to death so that he could change the rules that he himself ordained, I just doubt that anything resembling sanity came from it.

The dust that you shook from your feet is everything that a benevolent creator would want you to keep.

So, how would any sane person want to worship THAT for all eternity?

An eternity of nothingness and tranquility seems to be preferable.

                                                                                             04/09/2012

    Dear Diary, 

despite being a Christian for many years, Orion (Austrian guy on PWI) pointed out something I never noticed about my faith. Some folks go to heaven, some go to hell. I may or may not, to either. My family members may or may not. And anon forum acquaintances may or may not. How did I miss reflecting on this all these years?!

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

All I am hearing is the sound of you not reflecting on your choice.

It is deafening. [/quote]

How would you even hear it?

Firstly, we’re using text based communication.

Secondly, I’m not a dear diary type, so my ‘moments of profound meditation and reflection’ wouldn’t be written here. Nor has my own faith journey, spiritual life, and history been recorded here. So, forget hearing or reading, you’d have to be psychic.
[/quote]

Oh, I do not doubt that it took some “profound meditation and reflection” to worship a god that ordered Isaac on the altar or predestined his own son to be tortured to death so that he could change the rules that he himself ordained, I just doubt that anything resembling sanity came from it.

The dust that you shook from your feet is everything that a benevolent creator would want you to keep.

So, how would any sane person want to worship THAT for all eternity?

An eternity of nothingness and tranquility seems to be preferable.

[/quote]

/Shrug

So, how’s the weather there? Hot and dry here in sunny SW Florida.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
04/09/2012

    Dear Diary, 

despite being a Christian for many years, Orion (Austrian guy on PWI) pointed out something I never noticed about my faith. Some folks go to heaven, some go to hell. I may or may not, to either. My family members may or may not. And anon forum acquaintances may or may not. How did I miss reflecting on this all these years?! [/quote]

Dear Diary,

Despite my efforts Sloth still continues to be in denial of the nature of the deity and the deal it is offering that he is hell bent on worshiping. What did I do wrong? Was I not clear enough? Do these jeans make me look fat and does Debbie really like me or does she just want to make Johny jelaous?

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

All I am hearing is the sound of you not reflecting on your choice.

It is deafening. [/quote]

How would you even hear it?

Firstly, we’re using text based communication.

Secondly, I’m not a dear diary type, so my ‘moments of profound meditation and reflection’ wouldn’t be written here. Nor has my own faith journey, spiritual life, and history been recorded here. So, forget hearing or reading, you’d have to be psychic.
[/quote]

Oh, I do not doubt that it took some “profound meditation and reflection” to worship a god that ordered Isaac on the altar or predestined his own son to be tortured to death so that he could change the rules that he himself ordained, I just doubt that anything resembling sanity came from it.

The dust that you shook from your feet is everything that a benevolent creator would want you to keep.

So, how would any sane person want to worship THAT for all eternity?

An eternity of nothingness and tranquility seems to be preferable.

[/quote]

/Shrug

So, how’s the weather there? Hot and dry here in sunny SW Florida.
[/quote]

I dunno, it snowed yesterday.

Just a little bit.

Otherwise, spring.

Also, as a general observation, thinking for yourself is a wasted effort if you do not put it out there.

It is not in given to man to divine THE TRUTH out of thin air, without other people to bitch slap your ideas around they are worth shit.

Sucks, but there it is.

[quote]orion wrote:
Despite my efforts Sloth still continues to be in denial of the nature of the deity…[/quote]

And how did you conclude this? Surely, not from my first post. I make no bones about it, reject God, and you reject salvation. I am in this thing called Christianity with my eyes wide open. I’m not one of your Christian friends (I assume you keep some) who’ll beat around the bush trying not to hurt your feelings. My very first post made it clear I’m not in denial about the nature of my God. Hell is as real as heaven to me, and I’m certain for more densely populated. Far more. That’s me. YOU, are an avowed atheist who has willfully rejected the fundamental tenets of Christianity, stating that you, Orion, of sound mind, reject heaven for hell in the event both exist. Ok. I’ve no obligation or interest to ‘save’ you. So, no proselytizing from me. I’d rather move on to the weather in Austria, or something.

So how does this repenting thing work? If you don’t believe can you still fake repenting just in case you’ve been wrong your whole life?

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Do we want to?
[/quote]

I don’t know.

Can you picture heaven?

I find hell extremely easy to picture - devil, pitchforks, constant torture, pain etc.

Now how about heaven? I can’t think of anything I would want to do for all of eternity.[/quote]

Heaven has been imaged as a banquet, walking, and sex. So…

[quote]orion wrote:
If your god feels like punishing me for eternity for that[/quote]

Going to hell is by the free choice of rejecting God. You’re punishment is your own doing.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Do we want to?
[/quote]

I don’t know.

Can you picture heaven?

I find hell extremely easy to picture - devil, pitchforks, constant torture, pain etc.

Now how about heaven? I can’t think of anything I would want to do for all of eternity.[/quote]

Heaven has been imaged as a banquet, walking, and sex. So…[/quote]

I am all for this, but come on man, forever?

[quote]orion wrote:
he could change the rules that he himself ordained
[/quote]

He didn’t change any of the rules. The rules are still in effect. Whether you follow them or fulfill them is different.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
So how does this repenting thing work? If you don’t believe can you still fake repenting just in case you’ve been wrong your whole life?[/quote]

Am I sorry just because I say I am, or because I am?

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Despite my efforts Sloth still continues to be in denial of the nature of the deity…[/quote]

And how did you conclude this? Surely, not from my first post. I make no bones about it, reject God, and you reject salvation. I am in this thing called Christianity with my eyes wide open. I’m not one of your Christian friends (I assume you keep some) who’ll beat around the bush trying not to hurt your feelings. My very first post made it clear I’m not in denial about the nature of my God. Hell is as real as heaven to me, and I’m certain for more densely populated. Far more. That’s me. YOU, are an avowed atheist who has willfully rejected the fundamental tenets of Christianity, stating that you, Orion, of sound mind, reject heaven for hell in the event both exist. Ok. I’ve no obligation or interest to ‘save’ you. So, no proselytizing from me. I’d rather move on to the weather in Austria, or something.
[/quote]

Well Christian friends are hard to find in Austria and my definition of “friend” is a rather narrow one.

Be that as it may, I highly doubt that they do not tell me that I will go to hell as to not hurt my feelings.

Them not wanting me to hurt their feelings would make more sense, I am perfectly ablke to do that without even trying.

Anyhow, this whole afterlife thing, not gonna happen.

Plus, a god that cannot come up with a better sales pitch, probably not worth the effort.

What is so wrong with having some fun without fucking people over and then you die?

Unless they deserve to be fucked over, then it is open season.

But even then, moderation in all things, see, not so hard, chillax.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
he could change the rules that he himself ordained
[/quote]

He didn’t change any of the rules. The rules are still in effect. Whether you follow them or fulfill them is different.[/quote]

But then the rules are like this:

He makes man.

Flawed.

Then he drowns the whole lot, still flawed.

Then he sacrifices son so that he can forgive them that he fucked them up.

Naaaaaa…

Not worship material.

[quote]orion wrote:

Plus, a god that cannot come up with a better sales pitch, probably not worth the effort.
[/quote]

Yes, I got that the first time. Heck, I’ve known this is how you feel for years. And ok, but I’m still not interested. Seriously. You keep repeating yourself as if I’m sitting here trying to share the gospel with you. I’m not. I know you already know it, and have made an informed, consensual, decision to reject it and heaven (in the event of it’s existence). I mean, have I been trying to talk you out of it, or something? It’s like your reacting to a proselyting I’m not even doing. Just to be clear…Ok, I get it.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Do we want to?
[/quote]

I don’t know.

Can you picture heaven?

I find hell extremely easy to picture - devil, pitchforks, constant torture, pain etc.

Now how about heaven? I can’t think of anything I would want to do for all of eternity.[/quote]

Heaven has been imaged as a banquet, walking, and sex. So…[/quote]

You’d get bored of that man. I think you’d have robe fundamentally different to enjoy something for eternity

By any chance did anyone watch the actual vid I posted? Would you guys say he is wrong?

But to be h

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Plus, a god that cannot come up with a better sales pitch, probably not worth the effort.
[/quote]

Yes, I got that the first time. Heck, I’ve known this is how you feel for years. And ok, but I’m still not interested. Seriously. You keep repeating yourself as if I’m sitting here trying to share the gospel with you. I’m not. I know you already know it, and have made an informed, consensual, decision to reject it and heaven (in the event of it’s existence). I mean, have I been trying to talk you out of it, or something? It’s like your reacting to a proselyting I’m not even doing. Just to be clear…Ok, I get it. [/quote]

I dont know man, you are telling me for the third time now that you dont care…