T Nation

Came Off TRT, Now On Enclomiphene. Body Alternating Between "Modes"/Symptoms

I’ve been on TRT the past year, as of March this year I came off and have been on enclomiphene ever since. I’ve noticed regardless if I’m on TRT or not, my body seems to have these 2 “levels” that it keeps alternating with… a bit difficult to explain but I’ll try. These levels/forms/stages duno what to call it usually last a few weeks to months each time.

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1)

  • good high appetite
  • GREAT mood all the time super positive and happy almost deliriously
  • start gaining a nice overall full thick muscle look (a bit on the chunky side)
  • SUPER high confidence (attention from females gets ridiculous) VERY calm and collected
  • strength in the gym shoots up like crazy, stamina, endurance all UP
  • erections are strong
  • body temp is high normal good pumps feel good
  • SUPER high tolerance to stimulants like caffeine

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2)

  • very low appetite even for things I love usually
  • start losing weight rapidly especially fat burning no longer look full but more lean
  • social anxiety and low confidence do not want to engage in social scenes
  • major restless leg syndrome from the moment I wake up till I go to bed
  • constant rumination and overthinking
  • strength goes down a lot, motivation is low
  • panicky and anxious state all the time feel like I need to be moving at all time cannot sit still
  • weak erections hardly any female interest or eye gazes
  • body temp is low feel frail and deflated
  • SUPER sensitive to stimulants like caffeine, one coffee has me jittery all day
  • memory struggles word recall is terrible
  • noticing more hair loss in the shower and itchy scalp

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I cannot seem to find the reason for this… my supplements don’t change, my lifestyle is more or less the same… yet every few months this change seems to occur…it’s like I get a new body and brain every few months…

Do these symptoms ring a bell with anyone? I’m guessing something to do with e2/T but maybe cortisol, thyroid?

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You could be entering and exiting a state of hyperthyroidism—> a normal function thyroid, hyperthyroidism would definitely cause weights loss, anxiety and loss of strength. It could be some rare metabolic disorder.

Do you have any recent thyroid labs you could share?

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This is around the most recent time I went 2)

  • Also forgot to mention in 1) I am EXTREMELY high tolerance to stimulants coffee pre workout whatever I don’t even feel it and body temp seems to be high normal but feel good … and during 2) I become SUPER sensitive to caffeine I need to take 1/4 of a scoop of Amino Energy or else I get anxious and jittery and body temp drops significantly, hands feet cold even in summer.

You are showing a possible iron deficiency indicated by abnormally low MCH and MCV, strange that MCHC is sufficiently elevated. You need an iron and ferritin panel at the very least. Most doctors fail miserably at diagnosing iron deficiency, I have been iron deficient for 2 decades and multiple doctors missed it.

You can be iron deficient with normal serum iron and ferritin when there is none in the bone marrow. You can even have iron deficiency without anemia. To diagnose an iron deficiency, you really need CBC, iron panel and ferritin and a doctor who doesn’t fixate on only lab ranges.

If you do have an iron deficiency it may help explain your strange problem, iron is needed for thyroid function. Low iron can also cause cognitive issues and fatigue, even lower body temperatures.

But I don’t take extra iron the other times when symptoms disappear… I’m leaning more towards a thyroid condition. But I feel it may be caused by stress rather than any change in supplements or diet…

I have iron deficiency and my MCV and MCH numbers aren’t as low as yours, your labs are indicating microcytic anemia and don’t think you should ignore the possibility. Microcytic anemia is when the hemoglobin mass and size are smaller than it should be.

My iron and ferritin hovered low normal for a long time and when my MCV and MCH decline to abnormal levels, it became full blown critical anemia.

I think your issues may be connected with the way clomid acts. This is a very specific drug that is not well tolerated by most people.

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Also have this… B12 is super high Ferritin does seem low. But cortisol is also super high on the previous post. Not really sure iron can be responsible for this much changes… I don’t ever feel tired or low energy on either 1) or 2)

Sounds like something similar I go through on TRT.

I always thought it was just me getting closer to dialing it in and then out…

TSH is a problem, TSH of 3.42 is no good and isn’t to far away from high normal. TSH increases when the demand for thyroid hormone is not being met, TSH is only this high when there is a problem. My TSH never goes passed 1.0 and hovers between .6-1.0.

Reference ranges for TSH and thyroid hormones

The evidence for a narrower thyrotropin reference range

New blood work

You need to make T4, T3, Reverse T3

Your are iron deficient and your labs look similar to my own, high CBC, low MCH, low MCV and bottomed out ferritin (stored iron).

Your thyroid and organs requires iron and there’s just not enough for all systems to function. Those with thyroid problems can not absorb enough iron through the digestive system.

Hmm… it might explain the rls as well and excessively nervy - I will get some iron tonight and see what changes. Any specific form of iron more bio available or effective than others?

Here’s what I take:

1 hour after caffeine (caffeine stops absorption)
1 hour before food or 2 hours after (food stops absorption)

106mg elemental iron (Ferretts brand Amazon)
1000mg vitamin C (Nature brand Amazon)
1000mg L-lysine powder in water (bulk supplements Amazon)

I take it at least once but sometimes twice a day. The L-lysine will help build your ferritin up much quicker. That and the vitamin C make the iron absorbed by the body and a much higher rate. Iron is finicky so it’s not one of those things you take with all your other supplements and forget about it. It has to be empty stomach.

These two things are at most individual. In most people it makes no difference. What people need to watch for though, is that there is only one mechanism to absorb minerals, they all use the same transport. If you take a supplement you are using up most of that transport while it is being processed, and there’s only so much you can actually absorb in any given dose. For example, I have to supplement calcium. If I take 2 pills, I get 630 mg of calcium. That is all of the available capacity used up for about 4 hours after I take the pills. I could take iron, or magnesium, or copper, but I’m only getting one of those things - the rest are just taking up space. If I have an affinity for copper it will block the absorption of the other stuff until I am done processing it.

I based that on the fact there are a lot of studies showing iron absorption on an empty stomach is like 10x that of when taken with food. Same with caffeine. Would love to be proven wrong though as it’s a bitch to wait an hour after coffee, take iron, then wait another hour to eat.

I read all of that stuff. Based on my personal labs, it makes zero difference to me. I take that stuff with my coffee, which I usually drink all day every day. Avoiding coffee to take some pills was annoying. Taking them with some citric acid helps absorption though, like orange juice or water with lemon. That’s why the Citrate forms work better for most people.

I read several studies showing L-lysine causing ferritin to increase way more than iron by itself. Check it out. I really felt a difference after adding it.

Anyone familiar with Floradix? Seems to be a very popular iron supplement and looks like it has the accompanying vitC and b vitamins etc.