This may be moved to beginner section, it’s a basic concept but I wanted the audience from here. Anyways I get that in order to gain weight you have to be in a calorie surplus, and obvious the opposite is true for losing weight. However, do you have to be in a calorie surplus to gain muscle mass? For example I’m 200lbs, but prlly around 15% bf (just a guesstimate).
If I maintain my current calorie intake but continue progressing in my lifts will I gain muscle mass cause I have enough of a surplus to have some excess bf? Or do I need to increase my calories in order to see improvements in muscle mass? I’m currently not doing the big compound lifts cause of an injury, but I’m slowly transitioning back into heavy training. Very slowly.
Ive been maintaining 200 lbs for about 2 months now, and I’m gonna very slowly bring up my squat and posterior chain strength, while simultaneously increasing upper body movements I can do such as weighted dips and chins. Basically I’ve been in a rut for about 6 months, and I’m looking to start making some more serious gains again but I don’t think my current training allows for enough stimulus to really do a bulk.
Should I maintain for the next few months once I can start lifting a bit heavier or should I start slowly increasing calorie intake as I progress with movements that may not be as ideal as squats and deads and presses, but are heavy chins and dips. I know this is all over the place so if further clarification is needed let me know.
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
This may be moved to beginner section, it’s a basic concept but I wanted the audience from here. Anyways I get that in order to gain weight you have to be in a calorie surplus, and obvious the opposite is true for losing weight. However, do you have to be in a calorie surplus to gain muscle mass? For example I’m 200lbs, but prlly around 15% bf (just a guesstimate).
If I maintain my current calorie intake but continue progressing in my lifts will I gain muscle mass cause I have enough of a surplus to have some excess bf? Or do I need to increase my calories in order to see improvements in muscle mass? I’m currently not doing the big compound lifts cause of an injury, but I’m slowly transitioning back into heavy training. Very slowly. Ive been maintaining 200 lbs for about 2 months now, and I’m gonna very slowly bring up my squat and posterior chain strength, while simultaneously increasing upper body movements I can do such as weighted dips and chins.
Basically I’ve been in a rut for about 6 months, and I’m looking to start making some more serious gains again but I don’t think my current training allows for enough stimulus to really do a bulk. Should I maintain for the next few months once I can start lifting a bit heavier or should I start slowly increasing calorie intake as I progress with movements that may not be as ideal as squats and deads and presses, but are heavy chins and dips. I know this is all over the place so if further clarification is needed let me know. [/quote]
Your body isn’t a calculator. It is constantly losing and gaining fat and muscle all day long. Your body weight fluctuates…so while it is possible for someone to lose fat and gain muscle and stay at the same weight, in the real world, that kind of recomp is mostly seen in the genetic elite and steroid users.
In other words. if your goal is optimal muscle growth, you gain the weight.
You have to be an anabolic state and have sufficient protein in order to gain muscle mass. Obviously (?) that’s easier with a caloric surplus, but I don’t think its technically necessary. I don’t really know.
Strength improvements can be neural however, so progression is not a sure sign of muscle growth.
Thanks for the reply Lorez. Yeah I’m getting sufficient protein, and like you said I know that gaining weight is the easiest way to tell if you’re in a surplus. But it’s complicated, at least for me, to know if you’re still in an anabolic state when maintaining a body weight. And yes I know that strength is primarily a neural adaptation, but I’m glad you mentioned that cause my other point is there’s still progress in strength.
Thanks x. I guess that would lead me to asking you my next question. Like I said before in my crent state I can’t do the major compound lifts. I’m starting squatting and pressing again, but with the bar and adding 10lbs to squat and 5lbs to press each week.
I do however do lots of chin ups/pull ups, and dips and some dumbbell pressing along with other things mostly centered around properly rehabbing my injury. Is this enough of a training stimulus to consider gaining weight again? Or should I stick at my current weight and star gaining once my lifts get back to somewhere near where they were before?
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
Thanks x. I guess that would lead me to asking you my next question. Like I said before in my crent state I can’t do the major compound lifts. I’m starting squatting and pressing again, but with the bar and adding 10lbs to squat and 5lbs to press each week. I do however do lots of chin ups/pull ups, and dips and some dumbbell pressing along with other things mostly centered around properly rehabbing my injury. Is this enough of a training stimulus to consider gaining weight again? Or should I stick at my current weight and star gaining once my lifts get back to somewhere near where they were before? [/quote]
Look, short answer is, if you want to gain that muscle, work everything, expect to be in the gym at least 4 days a week and plan for that controlled weight gain. You make adjustments to intake based on the progress you see, not a calculator.
Squatting isn’t a flat out necessity in itself. I like the squat machine and leg press better.
I can’t deadlift or squat due to a lower back injury, although I’m transitioning back slowly. I also can’t bench press due to a forearm injury, either tendinitis or splints, but I’m transitioning back from that too. I’ve been focusing on rehab stuff for the past 8 months and training what I can, as hard as I can but smart.
Also I’m in the gym training 4 days a week anyways and do dynamic work and rehab stuff on a fifth day as well. I guess I’m just asking if in my current state I can provide my body with enough of a training stimulus to gain lean muscle mass, not just purely fat (although I know fat comes with the lean mass).
I have bulked before so I’m familiar with the concept, but before that was based around progression of my compound movements.
It’s definitely possible to roughly maintain your weight while gaining muscle and losing fat.
If you keep your protein high, increase your work/conditioning and up your intensity in the gym it’s definitely possible. It’s all about figuring out what your goals and expectations are. Once you do that your next task is figuring out what approach works best for you.
This photo is 3-4 weeks after that first photo and roughly 3 pounds lighter.
No calipers, under water weigh ins or autopsies were done but I would guess there was a little bit of fat lost and a little bit of muscle gained whole staying roughly the same weight.
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
I can’t deadlift or squat due to a lower back injury, although I’m transitioning back slowly. I also can’t bench press due to a forearm injury, either tendinitis or splints, but I’m transitioning back from that too. I’ve been focusing on rehab stuff for the past 8 months and training what I can, as hard as I can but smart.
Also I’m in the gym training 4 days a week anyways and do dynamic work and rehab stuff on a fifth day as well. I guess I’m just asking if in my current state I can provide my body with enough of a training stimulus to gain lean muscle mass, not just purely fat (although I know fat comes with the lean mass).
I have bulked before so I’m familiar with the concept, but before that was based around progression of my compound movements. [/quote]
Were I in your situation, I would be training as heavy as I could in the range of motion where I am painfree to get my heavy work in, and train light in the full ROM to get my volume in. That has worked for me in the past when it comes to training with/around injuries.
So, for example, block/rack pulls instead of deads. High box squats instead of squats. Board/pin presses instead of benching, etc. Reverse bands also go a long way here.
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
I can’t deadlift or squat due to a lower back injury, although I’m transitioning back slowly. I also can’t bench press due to a forearm injury, either tendinitis or splints, but I’m transitioning back from that too. I’ve been focusing on rehab stuff for the past 8 months and training what I can, as hard as I can but smart.
Also I’m in the gym training 4 days a week anyways and do dynamic work and rehab stuff on a fifth day as well. I guess I’m just asking if in my current state I can provide my body with enough of a training stimulus to gain lean muscle mass, not just purely fat (although I know fat comes with the lean mass).
I have bulked before so I’m familiar with the concept, but before that was based around progression of my compound movements. [/quote]
You can concentrate on progressing on lifts that don’t aggravate your injuries.
Work on your mobility/flexibility/form. That is the major cause for squat/DL related injuries IMO.
Virtually everyone who’s been lifting for any significant amount of time has incurred some injuries. You just have to figure out, within reason, how to train around them and find movements that don’t hurt.
@gregron, impressive physique man, really. And yeah the past 10 months have been focused on not only the rehab, but mobility( primarily in hips, and also more recently just drilling proper form into my head. Its been monotonous, but def beneficial.
And @the pwnisher, I really respect that form of working through injuries. Im gonna come right out and say it though I honestly don’t know if I am experienced enough to do that. I regressed my hip hinging and squatting movements, so I still got the repetitions in, but I feel I wouldve prolonged the injury even more if I had worked partial ranges of motion heavy.
Also I still feel tightness in the area, which is initially what I was trying to get rid of before I started training heavy again. But its been too long and I’ve made significant progress in mobility and the pt rehab so I think its a tightness I’m going to work through gradually. No pain, st tightness that has haunted me for awhile.
And yes I’m concentrating on things that don’t aggravate the injury, for example the weighted sips and chins and hip thrusts which are just a few among the movements I’ve turned to. Not ideal but progress is progress. I just didn’t know if this sort of training would provide enough of a stimulus to warrant a bulk.
I feel I need to take this bulk slow and keep it clean, the opposite of what I did for my first one. The first one ended well in my eyes I just am heavier now and don’t think that can be redone as drastically
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
And @the pwnisher, I really respect that form of working through injuries. Im gonna come right out and say it though I honestly don’t know if I am experienced enough to do that. I regressed my hip hinging and squatting movements, so I still got the repetitions in, but I feel I wouldve prolonged the injury even more if I had worked partial ranges of motion heavy. Also I still feel tightness in the area, which is initially what I was trying to get rid of before I started training heavy again. But its been too long and I’ve made significant progress in mobility and the pt rehab so I think its a tightness I’m going to work through gradually. No pain, st tightness that has haunted me for awhile. [/quote]
You definitely don’t have to follow my experience on this, but you shouldn’t re-injure yourself if you are working outside of where you are feeling pain. I’ve tried both resting from injuries and this method, and I found that, when I avoided training an injured area, it just got worse, whereas when I trained, it healed. The full ROM training with light/reverse bands was also helpful for getting rid of the tight feeling.
In general, I’ve noticed that avoiding an injured part makes it worse. Steve Pulcinella touched on this as “paleo rehab”.
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
And @the pwnisher, I really respect that form of working through injuries. Im gonna come right out and say it though I honestly don’t know if I am experienced enough to do that. I regressed my hip hinging and squatting movements, so I still got the repetitions in, but I feel I wouldve prolonged the injury even more if I had worked partial ranges of motion heavy. Also I still feel tightness in the area, which is initially what I was trying to get rid of before I started training heavy again. But its been too long and I’ve made significant progress in mobility and the pt rehab so I think its a tightness I’m going to work through gradually. No pain, st tightness that has haunted me for awhile. [/quote]
You definitely don’t have to follow my experience on this, but you shouldn’t re-injure yourself if you are working outside of where you are feeling pain. I’ve tried both resting from injuries and this method, and I found that, when I avoided training an injured area, it just got worse, whereas when I trained, it healed. The full ROM training with light/reverse bands was also helpful for getting rid of the tight feeling.
In general, I’ve noticed that avoiding an injured part makes it worse. Steve Pulcinella touched on this as “paleo rehab”.[/quote]
Yeah man I agree with you. Like I said I feel like I personally would have further aggravated the injury by this though. Like I said mostly lack of experience, and partly personality. Also for me the major thing was that my right was externally rotated, so a period of time was taken to correct this, before strengthening in the new position.
I’m having a hard time explaining to you how I both agree with you but chose not to follow this method. Haha hopefully you understand where I’m coming from and that its my own personal opinion, rather than thinking I’m right or wrong.
The thing about re hab/pre hab/mobility work is that it’s slow going. That’s the frustrating part (for me at least) is that it takes a long time and a lot of consistency. You have to stick with it for a long time but when you start feeling the benifits it is definitely worth it.
Do you need to squat and Deadlift? Are you planning on competing in powerlifting? Do you just want to be strong and look good in a t shirt or at the beach?
These are questions that you need to answer: what are your goals?
This may go against the grain but guess what? You don’t have to squat and Deadlift.
[quote]gregron wrote:
The thing about re hab/pre hab/mobility work is that it’s slow going. That’s the frustrating part (for me at least) is that it takes a long time and a lot of consistency. You have to stick with it for a long time but when you start feeling the benifits it is definitely worth it.
Do you need to squat and Deadlift? Are you planning on competing in powerlifting? Do you just want to be strong and look good in a t shirt or at the beach?
These are questions that you need to answer: what are your goals?
This may go against the grain but guess what? You don’t have to squat and Deadlift. [/quote]
On this topic, I think picking new movements is great for the rehab process, just because you can avoid the ego blow that comes with “losing strength”.
It can be something simple, like going from low bar to high bar squats, or using a safety squat bar or a cambered bar, but just something where you are still building strength/recovery, just with a movement you don’t have anything to compare against.
[quote]gregron wrote:
The thing about re hab/pre hab/mobility work is that it’s slow going. That’s the frustrating part (for me at least) is that it takes a long time and a lot of consistency. You have to stick with it for a long time but when you start feeling the benifits it is definitely worth it.
Do you need to squat and Deadlift? Are you planning on competing in powerlifting? Do you just want to be strong and look good in a t shirt or at the beach?
These are questions that you need to answer: what are your goals?
This may go against the grain but guess what? You don’t have to squat and Deadlift. [/quote]
On this topic, I think picking new movements is great for the rehab process, just because you can avoid the ego blow that comes with “losing strength”.
It can be something simple, like going from low bar to high bar squats, or using a safety squat bar or a cambered bar, but just something where you are still building strength/recovery, just with a movement you don’t have anything to compare against.
[/quote]
Good advice. I really wish my gym had a safty squat bar or cambered bar
I do want to squat/ deadlift, mostly because I love doing them and really believe in programming around them. Also before I got injured I had entertained the idea of a powerlifting meet at some point. And yeah the rehab stuff has been downright frustrating. Its especially annoying when I’m practicing my squat form with a body bar and watching guys who have no idea what they’re doing quarter squat 315… But I digress.
And honestly I’m so what past the ego blow, at least I would like to think so. I mean I’ve been deadlifting a 25lb dumbbell to practice my hip hinge and pressing with just the bar on a regular basis. So for me just being able to low bar squat with the regular bar a couple days ago was both exciting and fun . I’m sure my attitude will change though haha
Good advice. I really wish my gym had a safty squat bar or cambered bar [/quote]
Gotta pay to play, haha. The SSB has to be the single greatest investment I ever made for my training. If I was held at gunpoint and was told I could only do 1 movement for the rest of my life, it would be safety squat bar squats.
