[quote]De sleeplijn wrote:
We all know why this guy is against the UFC. Not too many brothers winning belts compared to boxing. [/quote]
Uh-oh
It’s sad that people reading this, whom are new to MMA, may be turned off from it because of this article…
Wow, I must say that article came off like the work of a true ass-monkey. Boxing is a great sport and so is MMA. They use some of the same strikes and techniques but are also very different in some respects, MMA requiring a much broader set of techniques for starters.
We should keep in mind the ancient Greeks had wrestling, boxing and pankration (MMA) as separate Olympic events. Who knows if one was much more popular than the other two, the point being that there is room for all.
MMA is just on an upswing right now.
As for the “human cockfighting” comments: pure bullshit. How many times does the average boxer get hit (esp. in the head) in a match vs an MMA guy? I’m guessing a whole lot more and I’d love to see the stats.
Boxing has just been socially accepted longer in our Western paradigm whereas MMA is still seeping into the cultural background. As great as a boxing match can be, MMA fights can be just as good and exciting (though certainly not more brutal, trauma is trauma).
MMA fighters have to range over a much broader set of challenges, tactics and responses. Both upper and lower body strikes and grappling vs striking all come into play. The comments in the article indicate a complete ignorance of these very basic facts.
The original Gracie Challenges and UFC’s demonstrated what a DIFFERENT (not better or worse) skill set is needed for MMA success vs a narrowly focused sport like boxing, or wrestling, or ninjitsu, etc, etc.
This article is a pathetic use of the Strawman fallacy to somehow generate legitimacy or popularity (bums on seats and PPV sales) for a sport (boxing) that already has it by attacking the character of its currently more popular sibling, MMA.
simply put boxers are afraid, greed has ruined their sport, MMA uses their skill set amoung a plathoria of others, they cant be consider “hard” or as “fighters” (in the western sense of dukeing it out)because MMA fighters appear to be “really” fighting.
At my subfighting school we’ve coined the phrase “boxers chip” because we got alot come from local gyms who want to try subfighting and they end up trying to bulldoze beginners, complain bitterly, spazzing on the floor in an attempt not to lose face and being subbed they usually dont come back the next week because they have to nurse their ego.
I dont know who instills this arrogance in the young boxers we get come to our club.
Ive been to PrideFC events in japan and japanese fans understand the ground game they have utmost respect for fighters (ring vs cage makes a difference), i also went to UFC in UK and i was disheartend when the fans started booing when it went to floor, i felt somewhat angry at the oiks that just wanted to see blood.
MMA is at risk of being ridden on by the media because its trendy and infashion.
[quote]Grimnuruk wrote:
MMA is just on an upswing right now.
As for the “human cockfighting” comments: pure bullshit. How many times does the average boxer get hit (esp. in the head) in a match vs an MMA guy? I’m guessing a whole lot more and I’d love to see the stats.
[/quote]
The guy should have watched the UFC Documentary ‘Beyond the Glory’.
Great doco for anyone into MMA or people who need their eyes opened to the reality of it.
Chuck states that in a boxing match they cop around 60 power shots to the head. He said he wouldn’t have taken than many in his career.
So here’s what I wrote
This is possibly the most ridiculously ignorant article on MMA ever published by someone who is supposed to be a serious journalist. You might want to try doing some actual research on the training requirements for MMA and the quality of athletes that it is drawing.
For every thug there are two masterfully trained technique oriented athletes. There is no excuse for bashing a combat sport simply because you do not understand the subtleties of the submission and wrestling game.
There are NCAA champion wrestlers fighting, there are jiu jitsu national champions fighting, there are international traditional japanese judo champions fighting. The marketing gimmicks of UFC are reminiscent of WWE tactics, but that’s about as far as it goes.
It is true that the strict stand-up punching of the UFC is a long way behind boxing. However, this is because unlike boxing, you must worry about shins kicking you, knees breaking you, or elbows slashing you.
Not to mention the takedown attempts and the submission attempts. These are kinds of pain that no boxer has ever felt in the ring. No, all a boxer has to deal with are fists. This has lead to the evolution of an extremely finely tuned SPECIALIST in an elite boxer.
Unfortunately, MMA fighters do not have the luxury of dealing with only one kind of attack. They must be jacks of all trades. They are more well rounded as fighters, despite their less than spectacular punching styles.
One has to hold one’s hands differently than a boxer if one must be concerned about being kicked in the ribs from long range or defending the takedown attempt.
I am a fan of the sweet science, of the classic fighters, and of the Golden Boy. However, you have completely misrepresented the UFC, and in the process you have exposed your truly astounding ignorance of the fighting arts.
Perhaps you should have taken Mark Twain’s advice–It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than it is to open it to a nation and remove all doubt.
Use your better judgment next time, if you have any.
Yeah, it’s late and I’ve been up all night. So sue me.
Wow. What a way to be welcomed to the forum. I’m a newbie here and have not even done an intro but I gotta say: What a knuclehead. I didn’t do a long drawn out reply because he’ll stop reading it after the first few lines. Here’s what I wrote back to that assclown:
Freeman. Your article on boxing V. MMA was poorly written, un-researched and sophomoric. I’m not going to sit here and curse you like most MMA fans/practitioners will, I will simply say that as a sports journalist, I thought you would not only know better, but could write better. I would venture to say that you sold out to the boxing community or HBO to write that. To be successful in the UFC, you’ve got to have it all. The UFC is not like some the smaller cage match venues, they border on savagery. Do your readers (what little you have)and do your job, conduct some research instead of collecting a paycheck and submitting a trashy article like that again.
I had the misfortune of reading one of Mike Freeman’s books on the NFL and it displayed most of the same characteristics of this article: unfunny, sophomoric attempts at humor (see his profile - WTF?), no time or effort spent on fact checking and absolutely no flair for writing.
I wonder if he is aware that Oscar De Le Hoya was training with Diego Sanchez before his last “fight” with Koscheck.
The author of that article is doing nothing more than protecting his turf. But, even his best efforts won’t stop the mixed martial art trend in combat sports.
The truth is plain to see; boxing is a dying sport and mma is on the rise. There is nothing that this guy can write which will change that one bit.
All anyone has to do is look at the demographics, that is who watches (and more importantly pays for) mma. The answer is mostly males ages 16 to 39. This group used to be solidly in boxings corner. While boxing still has many fans in this age group, the majority has begun to swing over to mma.
There is only so much disposable income for such events. And when someone purchases a mma fight they are saying “yes” to mixed martial arts. And that means an automatic financial “no” for boxing.
The De La Hoya fight will not revive boxing.
Boxing, while not dead yet, is a dying sport. It’s dying because of scum sucking pigs like Don King who cast a shadow of illegitimacy over everything they touch.
It’s dying because of the lack of good heavyweights.
And finally, it’s dying because there is a new combat sport in town which highlights every sport fighting skill that has ever been showcased. It pits man against man in a virtual no holds barred environment. And in my opinion it’s far and away more exciting than boxing.
It’s called mixed martial arts and to those crying in their beer over boxings demise need only click on SPIKE tv and pay per view about once a month to take a look at the new up and coming combat sport.
It’s only a matter of time now. boxing is against the ropes and looking weak. Boxings hands are dropping and it cannot defend itself any longer. Someone should throw in the towel and award mma the new title of undisputed king of combat sports.
And there is nothing that that frustrated writer can do about it, short of writing nonsensical articles. Articles by the way which no one who has ever seen a mma fight will pay attention to.
Zeb
[quote]Grimnuruk wrote:
MMA is just on an upswing right now.
As for the “human cockfighting” comments: pure bullshit. How many times does the average boxer get hit (esp. in the head) in a match vs an MMA guy? I’m guessing a whole lot more and I’d love to see the stats.[/quote]
Brain and head trauma is almost universally greater among boxers (for obvious reasons).
http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/40/2/169#311
[i]… 3.4% of MMA fights end because of head trauma. For boxing, according to the Nevada State Athletic Commission, there are 17 injuries per 100 bouts with 11.3% of fights ending via knockout.
… It should also be noted that although there were five deaths in the boxing ring in the United States during 2005, there has never been an MMA death in the United States. The death cited by Dr. Buse occurred in an unregulated event during 1998 in the Ukraine.
… MMA also has some rules that seem to be an improvement over professional boxing. The fact that MMA has no “standing eight count” enabling a concussed participant time to recover and continue fighting is a tremendous step toward diminishing traumatic brain injury.
Furthermore, by allowing leg and arm attacks opponents have a more diverse target area and do not focus solely on attacking the head, and if in trouble, a participant can “tap out” to signify his desire to end the match.
In our study, the “tap out” was the second most common means of ending a bout and ended approximately 30% of matches. Last, most MMA matches are far shorter than boxing matches. Sanctioned MMA events usually consist of three 5 minute rounds as compared to the usual ten to twelve rounds of boxing.[/i]
How boxing fans don’t see the dilution of their sport is beyond me. I agree one-punch knockouts are the most efficient, beauteous, and effective way to win a fight and the skill involved in honing and display those skills repeatedly is impressive, but boxing has become like fighting a war with all snipers and sharp shooters.
I understand you need rules and want to protect the contenders, but at what point are you spending hours watching people inflict brain damage on each other with foam pads?
Boxing needs to remember it’s very violent roots.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
If you are really upset, don’t visit their website. Everytime you click they get hits that generate more money from advertising.[/quote]
Exactly. I wish I hadn’t clicked. More money for that fucking shithole that is CBS.
[quote]Hagar wrote:
Of all the fights I’ve seen in UFC and Pride I’ve never seen anyone hit someone in the balls on purpose (with the exception Kieth Hackney and Joe Son but that was years ago when the UFC didn’t have many rules).
[/quote]
Be honest, did you not see GSP’s first two kicks on Hughes land squarely on his nuts?
Lame article. Can’t take it too seriously really.
Here’s some interesting news on Mr. Freeman, courtesy of www.wrestlingobserver.com
Mike Freeman, the CBS Sportsline writer who did that ridiculous column on UFC as compared to boxing yesterday, was the subject of news himself in 2004 when he was fired by the Indianapolis Star for falsifying his resume. Freeman, after being told to resign three days before he was going to start as a sports columnist, apologized, said he knowingly stated in an interview that he graduated from the University of Delaware. In fact, he attended the school, but didn’t get a degree. Freeman had worked from 1994-2004 with the New York Times covering the NBA and NFL before moving to Indianapolis.
[quote]BabyBuster wrote:
Hagar wrote:
Of all the fights I’ve seen in UFC and Pride I’ve never seen anyone hit someone in the balls on purpose (with the exception Kieth Hackney and Joe Son but that was years ago when the UFC didn’t have many rules).
Be honest, did you not see GSP’s first two kicks on Hughes land squarely on his nuts?
[/quote]
I’m not too sure, but I think Hughes admitted that the 2nd time didn’t connect.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
I’d love to say you are right and CaliLaw doesn’t understand the knowledge of the fans, but go to any UFC event and tell me what you think. After Billy Bob in his Stone Cold 3:16 shirt spits beer all over your back booing a fighter for ending a fight by submission you’ll swear to never go to a live fight again.
LMAO. No doubt that tribal32 is one such fan.
[/quote]
Very Mature. Please continue on with your false generalizations and stereotypes if thats what makes you feel better. I try not to judge a group of people based on a small sample. If you choose to, thats your decision. I won’t judge YOU.
Jane, you ignorant slut…
Relax, peeps. It’s just point/counter-point. You take the boxing side, I’ll take the MMA side. Either way, we’ll get people riled up and visiting our website.
Here’s the link to the pro-MMA argument.
[quote]StevenF wrote:
I wonder if he is aware that Oscar De Le Hoya was training with Diego Sanchez before his last “fight” with Koscheck. [/quote]
That’s not a very good endorsement for De La Hoya’s coaching skills.
“Submission grappling is much more interesting and complex than MMA. But submission grappling doesn’t have the fan following of boxing or MMA simply because it’s not as bloody.”
MMA does have submission grappling AND more… how can it be less complex than one of it’s pieces? 
That said, Pride fans in Japan and european mma-fans seem to be more about the technical fights than our american counterparts.