T Nation

Cal Countdown Milk & Insulin Response


Obviously, normal milk has a great insulin response which is why some people choose not to drink it. I try not to drink milk unless it's right when I come home from the gym.

Anyway, Hood calorie countdown milk has only 3g of sugar per serving, so would it be safe to assume a fairly small insulin spike from drinking a glass or two of this stuff?


Im not sure of the answer exactly, but I know that whey protein will cause insulin to raise also.


Can anyone please explain the reasoning behind the insulin-phobia around here?

note: "insulin causes fat storage" is not a valid answer.


I don't have an answer for you but I wanted to jump in and say I love Hood! :slight_smile:



why is this not valid?


You are even worse than an ignorant person. You cling so blindly and dogmatically to your beliefs that you refuse to see any other possible way.

No one likes your crap. There's two sides to every coin. I accept that there are merits of a high-carb diet. Perhaps you should do the same about other people's views.

"Your" way, or the methods that you espouse so fanatically on these boards, is by no means optimum for every single person on the planet, contrary to what you would make those that are less-informed believe.

Tone the zealotry down a bit.


because fat stores itself just fine without any insulin needed, that's why.


nowhere in this thread did I argue for a high carb diet, nor do I think a high carb diet is necessarily the best for everyone.

However, it's pretty freakin ridiculous to me that people seem to think that 3 grams of carbs in milk is whats making/keeping them fat. As if no one has ever gotten ripped while drinking milk. give me a break.

it's called missing the forest for the trees, and virtually every thread that I post in is guilty of the same problem.


His post, while slightly neurotic, probably stems from the fact that milk in general is often touted as highly insulinogenic, and therefore is not as ridiculous as you seem to think. Also, what dedicated physique athlete (or someone engaged in similar pursuits) do you know that is not slightly obsessive?

If those observing don't mind, why don't you expand on your particular beliefs regarding diet philosophies. Particularly, a diet for someone looking increase lean body mass and also a diet for someone who seeks a reduction in body fat.

You can't dispute the fact that no one can even open a thread on this site to discuss anything related to low carbohydrate intake without fear of ridiculing from you.

I look forward to your response.


I have noticed a trend of late of the poster you are referencing seeming to come across as harsh especially to posters relating to low carb intake. The difference I do not fear being ridiculed by this poster. I make an effort for my posts to be honest and as informative as possible. Of course there are times when I just post something with no hard proof but just sharing it because I have found it works well for me.

Not everyone is the same but I know for a fact that by lowering my carb intake and increasing my fat intake I can lose body fat much easier. However I am not concerned at all about drinking milk or Hood (especially chocolate!) because it is a great source of protein that I enjoy.



Perhaps I worded that less concisely than I intended. I don't fear his responses. I worry that those who are a bit newer or less informed might either:

a) Embrace what he writes as truth and adopt his position without considering all of the options arrayed before them.


b) Stop posting for fear of being chastised again.

In any case, thank you for your response m_s. =]


I drink this stuff every day on the AD.


And I completely agree. And I wasn't implying you were afraid of him either. I was just stating for the record that I am not afraid of his posts. I share your concerns also but it is an open forum.

I am far from perfect but I honestly do make an effort to be as informative and helpful as I can. Even when someone posts something that could easily be answered with doing a search. I feel it is more helpful to answer them as best as possible and also encourage them to do a search for more information rather than just telling them to do a search and belittling them.



the difference is, successful physique atheletes obsess over things that actually MATTER. People who constantly spin their wheels for years getting absolutly nowhere, on the other hand, obsess over the shit that doesn't matter, like if the 3g of carbs in their reduced-carb milk is going to make them fat.


mass gain diet: 17-18 calories per lb (as a starting point) 1-1.25g of protein per lb, 20-35% of calories from fat (including 2-3g combined EPA+DHA), the rest of your calories fill in with carbs, making sure to eat plenty of fruits and veggies for health.

for fat loss: 11-12 calories per lb (as a starting point) 1.5-2g of protein per lb, 20-35% of calories from fat(including 2-3g combined EPA+DHA), the rest of your calories fill in with carbs, making sure to eat plenty of fruits and veggies for health.

no food is off limits (dairy, grains, refined starches, fatty cuts of meat) as long as they fit into your calories/macros.

there. Simple, to the point, gets the job done.


fat stores itself even better in the presence of insulin. insulin is considered the king of storage/anabolic hormones. in the presence of high insulin, lipoprotein lipase drives storage of fat and inclusion of nutrients as fat. This is just one reason, mind you.

You're arguing against science, and so your statements are weak/negligible at best. move along


stores itself "even better" huh? tell me, what makes the fat ingested with elevated insulin "stored better" than without?

I'm going to assume you're not familiar with acylation stimulation protein, or ASP. ASP has been described by researchers as the most potent stimulator of fat storage in the fat cell.

And guess what? ASP levels can go up even with no increase in insulin.

meaning, if you eat 15g of fat at a meal, that 15g of fat stored just the same, insulin or not.

even better though, are you insinuating that low carb diets offer some sort of "metabolic advantage" over moderate to higher carb diets, ala Gary Taubes?

talk about not supported by the science.


Your problem JM, is that you never post helpful advice, unless it's just to get a rise out of people from your advice.

If someone asks a question, you won't answer it unless it can turn into a hotly debated topic.


is it my fault people ask dumb questions?

is it my fault people receive even dumber answers to their dumb questions?

can i help it if my intelligent answer to someones dumb question is met with dumb criticism?

is it my fault that i have no choice but to look mean when i make someone look even dumber by shooting down their dumb opinions with facts?

if so...sorry.

let's just say i have a low tolerance for bullshit, and there's a lot of it on this board.


Right. And as mentioned before, this doesn't usually bother people who have been around for a while. However someone who is new could more easily be turned off by it. Maybe not everyone wants to help, but it is a good thing to help and it makes you feel nice. :slight_smile:



You do realize that simply stating another way in which the body can store fat by another mechanism, says absolutely nothing against insulin's amazing ability to store fat as well? You're changing topic and mechanism because you know you're wrong, and you can't win this argument. move along