T Nation

Caffine While Bulking?

I know that caffine is a major ingredient in most fat burning supplements, and can help as an appetite supressor. I am just wondering if I should try to avoid it while trying to bulk. I’ve been avoiding it aside from before working out because it is in my pre-workout supplement. Anybody with any expirience on buliding while using caffine, even just coffe would be appreciated. It would be nice to get my morning cup of joe back.

Load it up with heavy cream.

Caffeine can affect individuals quite differently. The only way you’ll know whether it’s detrimental to you is to experiment.

Most things like this are not black-and-white. Most people want someone to tell them what’s ‘okay.’ Unfortunately, what’s okay for me might not be good for you.

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
Caffeine can affect individuals quite differently. The only way you’ll know whether it’s detrimental to you is to experiment.

Most things like this are not black-and-white. Most people want someone to tell them what’s ‘okay.’ Unfortunately, what’s okay for me might not be good for you.[/quote]

I have a feeling that caffeine will not hinder his ability to put on mass. If the line between gaining and losing were THAT fine, I’d be worried about all kinds of things before coffee ever gave me pause.

[quote]derek wrote:
I have a feeling that caffeine will not hinder his ability to put on mass. If the line between gaining and losing were THAT fine, I’d be worried about all kinds of things before coffee ever gave me pause.
[/quote]

That may be the case, although I have worked with ectomorphic trainees who couldn’tmake significant gains until they abstained from regular stimulant use. This included caffeine.

It’s a comon mistake to assume that since something works or doesn’t work for someone that everyone else will respond in the same way.

That may be the case, although I have worked with ectomorphic trainees who couldn’tmake significant gains until they abstained from regular stimulant use. This included caffeine.

That’s interesting, Chris. I wouldn’t have thought it mattered that much. Question, did the ectomorphs you worked with have high energy levels to go with their high metabolisms? Have you worked with any ectomorphs that had low energy levels?

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
derek wrote:
I have a feeling that caffeine will not hinder his ability to put on mass. If the line between gaining and losing were THAT fine, I’d be worried about all kinds of things before coffee ever gave me pause.

That may be the case, although I have worked with ectomorphic trainees who couldn’tmake significant gains until they abstained from regular stimulant use. This included caffeine.

It’s a comon mistake to assume that since something works or doesn’t work for someone that everyone else will respond in the same way. [/quote]

Are you actually saying that you’ve had trainees who’s progress was made or broken by caffeine? This was the money issue? Forgive my insolence, but I cannot believe that anybody consuming enough caffeine to actually make a major dent in their gains has not long since vibrated off the edge of the planet.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
ChrisKing wrote:
derek wrote:
I have a feeling that caffeine will not hinder his ability to put on mass. If the line between gaining and losing were THAT fine, I’d be worried about all kinds of things before coffee ever gave me pause.

That may be the case, although I have worked with ectomorphic trainees who couldn’tmake significant gains until they abstained from regular stimulant use. This included caffeine.

It’s a comon mistake to assume that since something works or doesn’t work for someone that everyone else will respond in the same way.

Are you actually saying that you’ve had trainees who’s progress was made or broken by caffeine? This was the money issue? Forgive my insolence, but I cannot believe that anybody consuming enough caffeine to actually make a major dent in their gains has not long since vibrated off the edge of the planet.[/quote]

LOL!

Caffeine can actually enhance performance in athletes. The primary factor to tweak when gaining is overall CALORIES. There is no way caffeine makes that much of a difference in someone’s diet. Even if it did, you would simply eat more to compensate, but the entire idea that people weren’t making gains all because of Folger’s is stupid as hell. If anything, it should have helped them out in the weight room.

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:

That may be the case, although I have worked with ectomorphic trainees who couldn’tmake significant gains until they abstained from regular stimulant use. This included caffeine.

That’s interesting, Chris. I wouldn’t have thought it mattered that much. Question, did the ectomorphs you worked with have high energy levels to go with their high metabolisms? Have you worked with any ectomorphs that had low energy levels?[/quote]

Unless they are suffering from appetite depressant like affects I would guess that is because your trainees sucked at eating. How complicated can it get? Put more in than you take out. You think that would be simple with the average food at any American restaurant.

If the caffeine is slowing any of your gains(…)than compensate with more food.

Personaly i love caffine before a workout, it gets me in the mode.

either Spike or a Spike Shooter, does the trick

[quote]Professor X wrote:
<<< CALORIES. >>>[/quote]

For all of the information overload now available at the click of a mouse this single word which is one of the very few actually foundational considerations in any weight training campaign has somehow lost much of it’s punch.

It seems like people have largely abandoned Occam’s razor on this subject (and others) which in this game holds especially true in so many cases. The simplest explanation, assuming the least hypotheticals is still usually the correct one. Maybe that’s not cool enough or something.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Caffeine can actually enhance performance in athletes. The primary factor to tweak when gaining is overall CALORIES. There is no way caffeine makes that much of a difference in someone’s diet. Even if it did, you would simply eat more to compensate, but the entire idea that people weren’t making gains all because of Folger’s is stupid as hell. If anything, it should have helped them out in the weight room.[/quote]

This is true unless you happen to be someone who is extremely sensitive to caffeine. Come on, you’re smart enough to know that not everyone can tolerate it.

The issue isn’t one of calories. It seems to have more to do with not allowing an individual’s skeletal muscle to adequately relax.

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Caffeine can actually enhance performance in athletes. The primary factor to tweak when gaining is overall CALORIES. There is no way caffeine makes that much of a difference in someone’s diet. Even if it did, you would simply eat more to compensate, but the entire idea that people weren’t making gains all because of Folger’s is stupid as hell. If anything, it should have helped them out in the weight room.

This is true unless you happen to be someone who is extremely sensitive to caffeine. Come on, you’re smart enough to know that not everyone can tolerate it.

The issue isn’t one of calories. It seems to have more to do with not allowing an individual’s skeletal muscle to adequately relax.[/quote]

That is STILL related to calories. Those who fidget throughout the day no doubt burn more calories than those who don’t. That doesn’t mean that this causes some magical inability to gain weight. It means they need to eat more. What does “intolerance” have to do with this? If they were “intolerant” to caffeine, why would they be drinking it in the first place? Being “sensitive” to stimulants has nothing to do with what we are discussing. No matter how hyper-active someone is, total caloric intake is still the primary factor in changing body weight…PERIOD.

From a performance stand point might also consider the blood flow, capilary restriction. Pop an aspirin with it to keep blood flow up to those muscles etc LOL if we want to really start picking at the minutia

Phill

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
ChrisKing wrote:
derek wrote:
I have a feeling that caffeine will not hinder his ability to put on mass. If the line between gaining and losing were THAT fine, I’d be worried about all kinds of things before coffee ever gave me pause.

That may be the case, although I have worked with ectomorphic trainees who couldn’tmake significant gains until they abstained from regular stimulant use. This included caffeine.

It’s a comon mistake to assume that since something works or doesn’t work for someone that everyone else will respond in the same way.

Are you actually saying that you’ve had trainees who’s progress was made or broken by caffeine? This was the money issue? Forgive my insolence, but I cannot believe that anybody consuming enough caffeine to actually make a major dent in their gains has not long since vibrated off the edge of the planet.[/quote]

Chris King brings up an interesting point. It’s not absurd to think caffiene could play a significant role in gains. It does raise your level of cortisol.

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
Chris King brings up an interesting point. It’s not absurd to think caffiene could play a significant role in gains. It does raise your level of cortisol. [/quote]

Please tell me this is a joke.

We’re talking about human doses of coffee/cafeine here, right?

Listen, I started lifting weighing about 175 at 6’-2". I have used more Ripped Fuel, Ultimate Orange, Ephedrine/Caffeine/Asprin than anyone I know. I eventually (by eating and lifting big) got up to 271(.4) then back down to a more athletic 260.

This idea of caffeine hindering growth is a total farce. And raising CORTISOL enough to make a difference, a difference that a friggin’ egg white would compensate for? Arrrggghhhhhhh!

By the way, elevated cortisol levels usually causes people to GAIN weight (even if it was fat).

Caffeine;

Cortisol- Can increase the body?s levels of cortisol, the ?stress hormone?, which can lead to other health consequences ranging from weight gain and moodiness to heart disease and diabetes.

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:

Chris King brings up an interesting point. It’s not absurd to think caffiene could play a significant role in gains. It does raise your level of cortisol. [/quote]

It IS absurd. It is ridiculous for anyone to believe caffeine plays a SIGNIFICANT role in gains (as far as hindering weight gain). It also indicates some of you get more info from late night fat burner commercials than textbooks.

[quote]derek wrote:
By the way, elevated cortisol levels usually causes people to GAIN weight (even if it was fat).

Caffeine;

Cortisol- Can increase the body?s levels of cortisol, the ?stress hormone?, which can lead to other health consequences ranging from weight gain and moodiness to heart disease and diabetes.
[/quote]

The only kind of weight you gain from cortisol is fat of course.

It causes the body to metabolize muscle as fuel and store fat. So when the original poster was taking about “gains”, he did mean muscle gain.

Victor Richards even said once that cutting caffeine can help with recovery and growth.

It depends on how much you drink of course. If you are in the habit of drinking four cups of coffee a day, and went totally clean, it is not ridiculous to think it could help your gains(muscle). It is healthier after all and people tend to sleep better w/out regular caffeine consumption.

It’s probably not that critical, but I don’t think it’s a ridiculous post either. I have heard it discussed before.

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
<<< It’s probably not that critical, but I don’t think it’s a ridiculous post either. I have heard it discussed before.
[/quote]

Is what you wrote.

[quote] Chris King wrote:
couldn’t make significant gains until they abstained from regular stimulant use. This included caffeine.[/quote]

Is what he wrote.

Look, I’m trying to beat the guy up, but if any of these kinds of nit picky very minor considerations have any effect at all they likely pale in comparison to the big three. I wanna hear somebody say that they know of someone who was doing everything else right, was not gaining, quit coffee and began to sprout muscle.