T Nation

Caffeine Alternatives?


#1

Are there any stimulants that would be good pre-workout that do not use caffeine? I use caffeine a few times a week around 300-500 mg but, would like to alternate.

Something pre-made or that I can mix I have no preference. The only thing I can not tolerate well is Yohimbine.


#2

Cocaine, meth, or maybe some bronkaid.

Pretty sure caffeine is one of the only things in pre-workouts that actually give any notable feeling of energy that can be emoted. I could be wrong, but without caffeine, a pre-workout is essentially useless if all you’re looking for is a stimulant. Maybe try to get off pre-workouts? I’ve gotten the same gainz without it, you can too.


#3

That is exactly what I did not want to hear.

Are there things I can mix in that will add to the caffeine effect? That way I can lower the dose a bit.


#4

Do you want a stimulant, or do you want the effects of increased energy and focus? If the later is what you’re looking for, I’ve had success with Tyrosine, which is one of the active ingredients in Power Drive.


#5

ephedrine?


#6

[quote]LiftingStrumpet wrote:
Do you want a stimulant, or do you want the effects of increased energy and focus? If the later is what you’re looking for, I’ve had success with Tyrosine, which is one of the active ingredients in Powerdrive. [/quote]

Yes, the latter.

I actually just got Power Drive. So, stacking it with caffeine/coffee?

I usually just mix cocoa powder with instant coffee.


#7

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:

[quote]LiftingStrumpet wrote:
Do you want a stimulant, or do you want the effects of increased energy and focus? If the later is what you’re looking for, I’ve had success with Tyrosine, which is one of the active ingredients in Powerdrive. [/quote]

Yes, the latter.

I actually just got Power Drive. So, stacking it with caffeine/coffee?

I usually just mix cocoa powder with instant coffee.[/quote]

Sure, you could stack it with coffee or caffeine pills. I’ve found Tyrosine helps me with energy, but doesn’t give me any kind of buzz. It also doesn’t give me any kind of crash later. It’s a different kind of energy than caffeine so I think they would interact well for you.

For reference, I use Tyrosine during music performances that last about 4 hours total. During that same time, I usually drink about 24 ounces of Diet Coke.


#8

[quote]Yogi wrote:
ephedrine?[/quote]

The problem with ephedra and pseudoephedrine is that they both greatly reduce your sensitivity to caffeine and other stimulants. And they reduce sensitivity to themselves fast too. Caffeine works by causing release of stress hormones including adrenaline. The ephedras cause cells to downregulate their number and sensitivity of edrenal receptors.


#9

A bit of a hi-jack but, is DMAA still available online?

Maybe alternate with that?


#10

[quote]maverick88 wrote:
A bit of a hi-jack but, is DMAA still available online?

Maybe alternate with that?[/quote]

AMP Citrate (1,3-dimethylbutylamine) is very similar, you could try that.


#11

Amino drinks with citrulline like xtend seem to wake me up a bit. Strong B vitamin complex can also help


#12

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
ephedrine?[/quote]

The problem with ephedra and pseudoephedrine is that they both greatly reduce your sensitivity to caffeine and other stimulants. And they reduce sensitivity to themselves fast too. Caffeine works by causing release of stress hormones including adrenaline. The ephedras cause cells to downregulate their number and sensitivity of edrenal receptors. [/quote]

yeah I know, I wouldn’t recommend ehpedrine for long periods but as an alternative to caffeine it definitely has its uses.

Good for burning fat, too.


#13

Has anyone tried 1 mg nicotine gum and Power Drive?


#14

You could try Sulbutiamine + Guarana. Guarana does have caffeine in it but at the normal guarana amount used, it is about 75 or so, not too crazy. Also has other stimulatory properties.

Do you get your caffeine from coffee or just straight pills/powder?

Coffee has other stimulants in it other than caffeine, namely theophylline and theobromine. Theophylline is a non-selective PDE inhibitor resulting in a much longer-lived production of cAMP, and is an adenosine receptor antagonist. Theobromine can do the same but is also a vasodilator.

Coffee also has mild MAO-I effects from beta-carbolines norharman and harman. MAO is a target of many antidepressant and neuro-protective drugs. This is why coffee can have a bigger impact on one’s mood than just caffeine alone, because the inhibition of MAO prevents the breakdown of neurotransmitters and thus increases their availability (serotonin, dopamine, nor/epinephrine).


#15

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
You could try Sulbutiamine + Guarana. Guarana does have caffeine in it but at the normal guarana amount used, it is about 75 or so, not too crazy. Also has other stimulatory properties.

Do you get your caffeine from coffee or just straight pills/powder?

Coffee has other stimulants in it other than caffeine, namely theophylline and theobromine. Theophylline is a non-selective PDE inhibitor resulting in a much longer-lived production of cAMP, and is an adenosine receptor antagonist. Theobromine can do the same but is also a vasodilator.

Coffee also has mild MAO-I effects from beta-carbolines norharman and harman. MAO is a target of many antidepressant and neuro-protective drugs. This is why coffee can have a bigger impact on one’s mood than just caffeine alone, because the inhibition of MAO prevents the breakdown of neurotransmitters and thus increases their availability (serotonin, dopamine, nor/epinephrine).[/quote]

Thanks. I get my caffeine from coffee but, recently read that one should not take in anti oxidants pre-workout, any truth?


#16

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
You could try Sulbutiamine + Guarana. Guarana does have caffeine in it but at the normal guarana amount used, it is about 75 or so, not too crazy. Also has other stimulatory properties.

Do you get your caffeine from coffee or just straight pills/powder?

Coffee has other stimulants in it other than caffeine, namely theophylline and theobromine. Theophylline is a non-selective PDE inhibitor resulting in a much longer-lived production of cAMP, and is an adenosine receptor antagonist. Theobromine can do the same but is also a vasodilator.

Coffee also has mild MAO-I effects from beta-carbolines norharman and harman. MAO is a target of many antidepressant and neuro-protective drugs. This is why coffee can have a bigger impact on one’s mood than just caffeine alone, because the inhibition of MAO prevents the breakdown of neurotransmitters and thus increases their availability (serotonin, dopamine, nor/epinephrine).[/quote]

Thanks. I get my caffeine from coffee but, recently read that one should not take in anti oxidants pre-workout, any truth?[/quote]
yeah, don’t do that… namely vitamin C, E, and CoQ10. There are plenty of studies showing they hamper the physiological adapations to training.


#17

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Has anyone tried 1 mg nicotine gum and Power Drive?[/quote]
From a focus standpoint, it takes 2-4mg of nicotine as gum for me. It’s not something I use very often, but it does work. 1mg wasn’t enough to matter for me (and other than the rare cigar, and even rarer hookah, I don’t consume nicotine), but 2x2mg pieces gives me the right amount to work with. The gum makes it easy to control the dosage… too intense, and you just stop chewing it as frequently.

I’ve never used it with anything else though.


#18

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Has anyone tried 1 mg nicotine gum and Power Drive?[/quote]
From a focus standpoint, it takes 2-4mg of nicotine as gum for me. It’s not something I use very often, but it does work. 1mg wasn’t enough to matter for me (and other than the rare cigar, and even rarer hookah, I don’t consume nicotine), but 2x2mg pieces gives me the right amount to work with. The gum makes it easy to control the dosage… too intense, and you just stop chewing it as frequently.

I’ve never used it with anything else though.[/quote]

Did you feel anything else? Appetite suppression?


#19

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Did you feel anything else? Appetite suppression? [/quote]

No, not really.

It pretty much goes from: no effect <-> good focus <-> intense, on-edge <-> slightly nauseous

I can move across that spectrum just by changing how frequently I chew the gum. Takes some trial and error though.


#20

Rhodiola works wonders for me. It increases beta waves in the brain, as well as a serotonin. It has other effects as well.