T Nation

But.... we're justified


#1

For those who still think the US has done no wrong in its "war on terror"

(From Democracy Now)
Afghan Massacre: The Convoy of Death? Broadcast for the First Time Ever in the US: Eyewitnesses Testify that US Troops Were Complicit in the Massacre of up to 3,000 Taliban Prisoners During the Afghan War.

The film has been broadcast on national television in countries all over the world and has been screened by the European parliament. Human rights lawyers are calling for investigation into whether U.S. forces are guilty of war crimes. But no U.S. media outlet has broadcast the film.

The film provides eyewitness testimony that U.S. troops were complicit in the massacre of thousands of Taliban prisoners during the Afghan War.

It tells the story of thousands of prisoners who surrendered to the US military's Afghan allies after the siege of Kunduz. According to eyewitnesses, some three thousand of the prisoners were forced into sealed containers and loaded onto trucks for transport to Sheberghan prison. Eyewitnesses say when the prisoners began shouting for air, U.S.-allied Afghan soldiers fired directly into the truck, killing many of them. The rest suffered through an appalling road trip lasting up to four days, so thirsty they clawed at the skin of their fellow prisoners as they licked perspiration and even drank blood from open wounds.

Witnesses say that when the trucks arrived and soldiers opened the containers, most of the people inside were dead. They also say US Special Forces re-directed the containers carrying the living and dead into the desert and stood by as survivors were shot and buried. Now, up to three thousand bodies lie buried in a mass grave.

The film has sent shockwaves around the world. It has been broadcast on national television in Britain, Germany, Italy and Australia. It has been screened by the European parliament. It has outraged human rights groups and international human rights lawyers. They are calling for investigation into whether U.S. Special Forces are guilty of war crimes.

But most Americans have never heard of the film. That?s because not one corporate media outlet in the U.S. will touch it. It has never before been broadcast in this country.

?Afghan Massacre? is produced and directed by award-winning Irish filmmaker Jamie Doran. Doran is has worked at the highest levels of television film production for more than two decades. His films have been broadcast on virtually every major channel throughout the world. On average, each of his films are seen in around 35 countries. Before establishing his independent television company, Jamie Doran spent over seven years at BBC Television.

The film was researched by award-winning journalist Najibullah Quraishi, who was beaten almost to death when he tried to obtain video evidence of US Special Forces? complicity in the massacre. Two of the witnesses who testified in the film are now dead.


#2

If you can find the video on-line maybe I will believe it. I check out the British version of BBC every day and never heard of it.

Maybe some of out T-MEN in other countries can chime in on this one.


#3

BTW, before any flaming takes place: in no way am I defending the Taliban in any shape or form.

Lots of bad shit happens in war, but something like this is should be brought out.
1 point that struck me is that this piece of news has been effectively censored in the mainstream media.

Brings up a host of issues worth thinking about.


#4

Kuri, you and people like you who post shit like this make me sick. This DID NOT happen and is propogated by pathetic little people like you who crticize everything under the sun because of your genetic unhappiness. There is no known cure for the disease that you have Kuri. Why don't you try suicide?

Today is Memorial Day. Show some respect for the people who died so that you can spew your venom at will. I marched to the cemetary today in the rain with good people from 7 wars who fought so that morons like you can stand on the sidelines and try and kick us in the balls. Come around me today pissant and I will kick your lily livered ass right out of this great country. Tomorrow I may let you live in peace...but not today. In the meantime, stay in your hole little worm. This old bird is hungry.


#5
 And who produced it?


 I have my belief this is nothing but some conspiracy theory.

 Why? Let's see. US special forces are not the only military presence in Afghanistan. Our soldiers are well trained and they know what to expect if they break Geneva convention rules
 Secondly 3000 bodies arent that easy to hide. No one in their sane mind would think they could get away with it.

 However, Ill give you the benefit of doubt: You show me the 3,000 afghan bodies, where they were buried and when; show me the eye witnesses, and show me their backgrounds - afghan backgrounds, or otherwise middleeastern will be met with extreme skpticism; conduct invesigations on the soldiers, as well as the trucks. Verify through forensic evidence that at least part of those afghanis dies in the specific trucks in question.

  And lastly verify, if it did in fact happen, what the reason for the incident was - was it in fact purposeful, or is it being twisted around by pro-peace crusaders round the world to paint americans as criminals? Sure as hell they've been trying hard.

  Please show the evidence. The US military is highly professional. Incidents happen, but they have no dealing with shady business - more specifically, its not the way they do their job to kill 3,000 possible witnesses that might aid in the capture of al-qaeda officials, or taliban officials. Most importantly it's not something they'd do knowing the US armed forces will forever be painted as criminals.

  That said, show me REAL evidence. No twists or distortions - just the facts. Can you do that? Or are you simply wagging your tail in anticipation that our troops might be war criminals and be court-martialed?

#6

Thanks Roids, I think these people don't have a clue of your sacrifices. Remeber the controversy on flag burning and how the lefties maintained it was freedom of expression? Let's just say my expression would be equally as passionate, but much more interesting. I'm sure it would meet your approvaL.
Thank you for what you've done for our country. I appreciate it.


#7

In the 9/12/2001 NYT it was reported that "Washington has demanded [from Pakistan] a cutoff of fuel supplies... and the elimination of truck convoys that provide much of the food and other supplies to Afghanistan's civilian population." So the USA was basically asking for the mass slaughter of millions of Afghans & the official story was that OBL might be in one of the trucks. Was it worth it? According to the UN 7-8 million Afghans were at risk of imminent starvation. On the 1st day of bombing the USA dropped only 37500 meals (defintely for PR reasons & nothing else) much less than the population of just 1 refugee camp. The group Doctors Without Borders (Nobel Peace Prize, 1999 or something) said the air drops were "a purely propaganda tool, of real little value to the Afghan people." One of the doctors said the real impact would be minimal. The president of Conscience International, who has been in this business for 20yrs, said that it would have taken 500 planeloads each month to drop just 1lb of food per person (& that isn't even a lot) to supply 1 refugee camp in Herat alone & Afghanistan is the same size of Texas. The Bush gov't said they were using 2 planes for food relief. Yeah what a big help they were.


#8
Monsieur Quebec you';re seriously getting on my nerves now.



Please stop twisting facts around to fit your needs.

HERE'S what happened. The US made such demands from Pakistan in order to provoke an uprising from the Afghans. 
We sent them more goddamn food in our daily ration dropovers than you could possibly fuckin count buddy.

Why demand other countries cut ties with Afghanistan? Diplomacy. When you cut economic ties with a Nation they are forced to do something - obey to international demands, cause an uprising against the regime, somthing.

Let me remind you 3,000 INNOCENTS died in an attack by al-qaeda, which was directly connected, protected, housed, financed by the taliban - the regime in charge of Afghanistan.

Ill tell you this too: I wouldnt hold it agains our troops if theyd done that. You cannot possibly imagine the grief we were struck with right next to NYC. Those were our brothers. 

You shouldve listened to me and every other american in the year following 9/11. Tales of skinning the al qaeda motherfuckers alive, suspending them upside down, cut their fingers one by one, rip their eyes out while they were alive, pull their hair while they were alive and make them watch their comrades be decapitated were very common.


Incredibly cruel, but such were the feelings 9/11 stirred - because we're not pussies and we were going to have our revenge. 

Our troops are in control and would never allow that to happen.


But then again you're not american, and it wasnt your fellow americans that died. They were ours.


#9

I live in Europe and haven't heard anything like this at all on ANY of the European news networks. It's a small world these days, pal. Something like that could not possibly be kept secret from the American people living in the USA. There are too many of us living abroad for that to ever happen. I will admit to seeing a different viewpoint on many topics, but something this blatant is just not reasonable.


#10

Kuri,

This has been publicly disproven time and again. It was an agenda-driven piece of spin put together by an agenda-driven "reporter," or "filmaker," or whatever he calls himself. Do some research. It's false.


#11

Living in England I get all the Euro news everyday,I have not seen or heard anything of this.


#12

I can't wait to see you guys
reactions when OBL gets caught - not by this Bush gov't but by a future one because it would be too embarrassing now - then we'll all see the ties between Al-Qaeda, the Saudi royal family, the Bush family & the Bin Laden family. I like how Americans wave flags etc when the USA (the good guys) invades another country & causes mass starvation but when some other country invades another one, they're the bad guys. Is there a double standard or what?


#13

You know there have been film crews in Afghanistan since most of the fighting was over. There are Canadian, British, Spanish, and other peacekeepers there. Where is the news of the starving masses? Nonexistant. Are all of those people part of a coverup too?

Where did most of the Afghans get their food under the Taliban? From the US. We provided more food aid than any other nation, even though we didn't recognize the government as legitimate. Damn, I'm so ashamed of the US now.....NOT!


#14

I apologize if I've offended anyone in the military by this thread- it was not meant to be a stab at you, but thought it was a possibly important story, though obviously controversial.
Which is the POINT.

I have nothing against military persons at all, in fact many of my family members have fought in many wars, from the Persian Gulf all the way back to the civil war.

Well, just check out where I saw it:
http://www.democracynow.org/
a show run on many public radio stations.

I'm not aware of who has broadcasted it in Europe, but would be interested to find out as well.

peace


#15

I've done some searching on Google, and so far have found that this film has been broadcast on ARD in Germany, and SBS in Australia.

In the US it has played on University campuses (Colorado State & Ohio State) and community cultural festivals (Dallas,TX).

I have yet to fine anything exposing the film as a fraud though I searched, but the UN among others has found the burial site:

UNITED NATIONS -- A U.N. team investigating reports from Afghanistan that more than 2,000 Taliban fighters held as prisoners were killed has found hundreds of bodies in wells and shallow graves, officials said Tuesday in Geneva.
Many had been thrown into the wells alive or shot at close range with their hands tied behind their backs, the officials said.

"The manner of death was horrendous," said John Mills, spokesman for the U.N. high commissioner for human rights, in a telephone interview after briefing reporters in Geneva on the investigation. Mills said the United Nations had not yet determined the total number who died or exactly when. But he said the bodies appeared to those of Taliban soldiers captured earlier this year.

"Prisoners were taken from detention, told they were going to be exchanged and then were trucked to wells of a type used by shepherds," Mills said at the briefing. "They were thrown into the wells either alive, or those who resisted were shot and then tossed in. Shots were fired into the wells and hand grenades were thrown in before the top of the well was bulldozed over."

Dr. Mark Skinner, a Canadian forensic expert on the team who represented Physicians for Human Rights, estimated that each well, near the northern town of Mazar-i-Sharif, could contain up to 100 bodies. There were about nine wells, each between 30 and 100 feet deep with 30 to 45 feet of water. The shallow graves in the same region contained an undetermined number of bodies that appeared to have been shot with heavy-caliber machine guns.

The investigators were led by a South Korean lawyer, Choong Hyun-paik, who watches developments in Afghanistan for the United Nations. He will submit his final report to the U.N. Human Rights Commission in March.


#16

I'm not painting Americans as criminals Diesel, far from it. I spend alot of time DEFENDING America to those where I live, who receive less-favorable news concerning the US.

I'm not "kicking" any veteran in the balls. Why does the possibility that some acted out of line threaten you?

American does not = military in my book. Some American military action I've supported, some I don't, and that is my right as a citizen.

What is a democracy if we do not have the freedom to bring to light troubling issues?
Not a democracy.

If you prefer a system of absolute military rule where no questioning is allowed, then you are in conflict with the ideals that my blood has fought and died for.

To those who respond with threats: I understand your passion which is why I don't respond in kind. I'm not out to damn the military in any way. I love the US too, which is why I'm concerned by actions or events that may ultimately threaten it.

Though these words may be falling on deaf ears, I for one will not close my eyes.


#17

I have seen films like this before. You can find clips online. Some reporter trying to make a name for himself. If they prove it that is a different story. It is all heresay(?).

Kuri do believe everything you read in the star also.

Miss Quebec quit sniffin glue.


#18

If anyone has proof that this film is a fake (no, just saying "this didn't happen" is not proof) put up a link.

I have no vested interest in the film, and frankly would be relieved if it were NOT true.

I don't believe everything I read, a fact that eventually brought me to T-mag from Muscle Mag-esque sites.

There have been plenty of similar cover-up incidents in past wars that should at least lead us to keep an open mind (yeah i know this is asking too much).


#19

The posted link describes it as "eye witness testimony." And there is an image of the "American Talaban" Johnny Walker (glug glug) being interrogated before the prison uprising. As far as "eye witness testimony", you can easily find eyewitnesses in people who hate the United States. I would have to have documented proof, not just eye witnesses.

I am not saying that they are lying, (I have no doubt that with all the people we have, some of them are unworthy of being Americans, and have done terrible things,) but I have no reason to believe people who have a large chance of having a political agenda, or might be influenced by corrupt leaders. I need proof.


#20

Kuri.. Maybe it is true ya never know. If it is true Americans are in for a rude awakening. But I watched some clips of the film online and it just seems they are stretching for something that is not there. Hell I could be wrong it would not be the first time. It just seems strange that the news never spoke of this anywhere and this guy had time to make a documentary on it.