what do you think of this? I agree, but you would expect that I guess. Check it out.
Of course it is Bush’s fault. He diverted the hurricane to stop all those refineries, and boost oil prices even further.
Now seriously, why do we skip over mayors, governors, and all the people who are actually in charge of this stuff, and go straight for the president?
Why use a tragedy to make political attacks?
The local governments, the state governments, and the Federal government all screwed up big-time. They are all at fault. All of them were horribly unprepared. Dems or Repubs, I dont care–they all fucked up and should be held accountable.
The most corrupt local and state governments are combined with the typical federal incompetence. To blame Bush is silly.
Unfortunately I am not surprised at how long it took to get the relief effort really going.
Nor am I surprised with the assholes that use the worst tragedy in the history of our nation to play politics.
This is a fascinating read – it’s the weblog account of a blogger who was following the progress of Katrina and wondering why New Orleans wasn’t being evacuated. This makes it look even more like the fault of the local government:
http://brendanloy.com/page2.html#112511310874584823
scroll up and down to read the progression.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
This is a fascinating read – it’s the weblog account of a blogger who was following the progress of Katrina and wondering why New Orleans wasn’t being evacuated. This makes it look even more like the fault of the local government:
http://brendanloy.com/page2.html#112511310874584823
scroll up and down to read the progression.[/quote]
I was following it as well because we were in its path at one time until it shifted more west. Those people didn’t have much time, mostly because until late Saturday, it was still unclear exactly where it was headed. Remember, they had it on course with Florida’s panhandle until Saturday morning-Saturday evening. That left a little more than 24 hours for most of the people to get out of that city before the effects of the storm could be felt. We were waiting to be evacuated until they called back the order Saturday afternoon.
If most of those people trapped had no transportation, what are you saying the plan of action should have been? This one wasn’t like many more recent hurricanes where the path was positively projected up to 4 days in advance. This was one shifted so many times that they didn’t know where it was actually going until it was nearly impossible to evacuate an entire city of people even if they all did want to leave.
[quote]The Mage wrote:
Of course it is Bush’s fault. He diverted the hurricane to stop all those refineries, and boost oil prices even further.
Now seriously, why do we skip over mayors, governors, and all the people who are actually in charge of this stuff, and go straight for the president?
Why use a tragedy to make political attacks?[/quote]
You know, I seem to recall during my Army days, that if we needed the weather to change - specifically, to make it MORE miserable - we always asked our Sergeant Major to do it. Seems he always managed to get it done, too. Do you s’pose it might have been one of those?
RB
It is true that most of these people had no idea that the storm was coming there way until, at most, 2 days before hand. It is also true that no one really had any idea how much damage this storm would cause. At first it was a 5, then a 4, then 3, to people used to only getting hit with hurricane remnants these categories seem rather asinine. But the government is supposed to be a smarter then this. They just always seem to get caught with their pants down (sorry just remembering Clinton here).
And while I am not much of a Bush supporter I don’t think you can lay this whole mess on him. There is a long chain of command and any one of them could have leaned more on the side of caution rather then worrying about loosing the tax money the casinos would lose if the area was evacuated earlier. For the people who were unable to leave, just look at the picture I?m trying to attach. We in America have a great deal of resources at our disposal; we just don’t manage them very well… But now the focus should really be on how we can alleviate this situation and prevent it from happening again.
There is NO “spinning” out of this one. The Katrina scenerio was one of the TOP THREE worst things that could have happened to the United States according to FEMA in 2001 – yet Bush diverted flood control funding to his war in Iraq. (Where most of the Louisiana Natl Guard is and watches helplessly as their homes and families get washed away BTW)
As Mayor Nagin said, “Don’t tell me 40,000 people are coming here. They’re not here. It’s too doggone late. Now get off your asses and do something, and let’s fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country.”
No matter who’s at fault, the WHOLE FREAKIN’ WORLD saw Bush sit on his ass for two days while people died.
Who knew something like 9/11 could have happened? Who could have predicted the insurgency in Iraq? Who knew the levees in N.O. might be breached? If you LOVE INCOMPETENCE this dufuss has it in spades. Don’t blame Bush, he’s just retarded.
Impeach Bush Now
“What disaster will next spring from Bush’s incompetence?”
Warnings went ignored as Bush slashed flood defence budget to pay for wars
In early 2001, at the start of Mr Bush’s presidency, his Government’s Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) warned that a hurricane hitting New Orleans would be the deadliest of the three most likely catastrophes facing America; the others were a massive San Francisco earthquake and, prophetically, a terrorist attack on New York.
“No one can say they did not see it coming,” reported the The Times-Picayune from New Orleans this week. The newspaper published a five-part series predicting the disaster five years ago. Officials and experts last week wearily recalled their attempts to make the government take action.
“It’s frustrating to have planned, begged and pleaded that this could happen,” said Walter Maestri, emergency management director of the now submerged Jefferson Parish. “They would say, ‘Yeah, yeah, yeah.’ Well it’s here now.”
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article310195.ece
Flood-control funds short of requests
WASHINGTON – Despite continuous warnings that a catastrophic hurricane could hit New Orleans, the Bush administration and Congress in recent years have repeatedly denied full funding for hurricane preparation and flood control.
http://tinyurl.com/7kym8
Did New Orleans Catastrophe Have to Happen? ‘Times-Picayune’ Had Repeatedly Raised Federal Spending Issues
At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.
The 2004 hurricane season was the worst in decades. In spite of that, the federal government came back this spring with the steepest reduction in hurricane and flood-control funding for New Orleans in history. Because of the proposed cuts, the Corps office there imposed a hiring freeze. Officials said that money targeted for the SELA project – $10.4 million, down from $36.5 million – was not enough to start any new jobs.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313
Don’t blame Bush for 9/11. Don’t blame Bush for Iraq. Don’t blame Bush for illegal aliens streaming over our borders. Don’t blame Bush for not being prepared for Katrina. Don’t blame Bush for…?
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
There is NO “spinning” out of this one. The Katrina scenerio was one of the TOP THREE worst things that could have happened to the United States according to FEMA in 2001 – yet Bush diverted flood control funding to his war in Iraq. (Where most of the Louisiana Natl Guard is and watches helplessly as their homes and families get washed away BTW)
As Mayor Nagin said, “Don’t tell me 40,000 people are coming here. They’re not here. It’s too doggone late. Now get off your asses and do something, and let’s fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country.”
No matter who’s at fault, the WHOLE FREAKIN’ WORLD saw Bush sit on his ass for two days while people died.
Who knew something like 9/11 could have happened? Who could have predicted the insurgency in Iraq? Who knew the levees in N.O. might be breached? If you LOVE INCOMPETENCE this dufuss has it in spades. Don’t blame Bush, he’s just retarded.
Impeach Bush Now
“What disaster will next spring from Bush’s incompetence?”
Warnings went ignored as Bush slashed flood defence budget to pay for wars
In early 2001, at the start of Mr Bush’s presidency, his Government’s Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) warned that a hurricane hitting New Orleans would be the deadliest of the three most likely catastrophes facing America; the others were a massive San Francisco earthquake and, prophetically, a terrorist attack on New York.
“No one can say they did not see it coming,” reported the The Times-Picayune from New Orleans this week. The newspaper published a five-part series predicting the disaster five years ago. Officials and experts last week wearily recalled their attempts to make the government take action.
“It’s frustrating to have planned, begged and pleaded that this could happen,” said Walter Maestri, emergency management director of the now submerged Jefferson Parish. “They would say, ‘Yeah, yeah, yeah.’ Well it’s here now.”
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article310195.ece
Flood-control funds short of requests
WASHINGTON – Despite continuous warnings that a catastrophic hurricane could hit New Orleans, the Bush administration and Congress in recent years have repeatedly denied full funding for hurricane preparation and flood control.
http://tinyurl.com/7kym8
Did New Orleans Catastrophe Have to Happen? ‘Times-Picayune’ Had Repeatedly Raised Federal Spending Issues
At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.
The 2004 hurricane season was the worst in decades. In spite of that, the federal government came back this spring with the steepest reduction in hurricane and flood-control funding for New Orleans in history. Because of the proposed cuts, the Corps office there imposed a hiring freeze. Officials said that money targeted for the SELA project – $10.4 million, down from $36.5 million – was not enough to start any new jobs.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313
Don’t blame Bush for 9/11. Don’t blame Bush for Iraq. Don’t blame Bush for illegal aliens streaming over our borders. Don’t blame Bush for not being prepared for Katrina. Don’t blame Bush for…?[/quote]
come on now, he’s under a lot of stree, he just needs a vacation
[quote]getgot211 wrote:
come on now, he’s under a lot of stree, he just needs a vacation[/quote]
Yes, he is under a lot of stree. In fact I can’t think of another person who is under more stree then he is.
I don’t think this is Bush’s fault. If he had done some things differently it would’ve helped the situation, but it isn’t his fault a hurricane hit NO and the relief efforts were less than satisfactory.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I was following it as well because we were in its path at one time until it shifted more west. Those people didn’t have much time, mostly because until late Saturday, it was still unclear exactly where it was headed. Remember, they had it on course with Florida’s panhandle until Saturday morning-Saturday evening. That left a little more than 24 hours for most of the people to get out of that city before the effects of the storm could be felt. We were waiting to be evacuated until they called back the order Saturday afternoon.[/quote]
You must live near me (I’m home in Pensacola FL for summer break). We were right in the path until almost the last minute. I had been in Texas the previous week and was on the way home Saturday night. A lot of people came up to me at gas stations in Mississippi asking me how to get to Pensacola so they could get out. Some people just weren’t able to leave in time though.
As far as planning, etc., I hear a lot of people saying there should be more cops doing their jobs. Well from people I’ve talked to that actually went there to help the relief effort, tons of cops quit their jobs. I suppose they figured they’ve already lost most of what they own, or all of it, and it wasn’t worth losing their lives to some freak having heroin withdrawals and ready to kill anything that moves.
I can’t believe people are so quick to blame Bush on this. I can’t believe people even care about who’s fault it is at this point. The important thing right now is helping these people, but I guess some of you don’t know about such things because you’re content to shout at W through your TV screen from hundreds of miles away. It doesn’t affect you directly so you might as well point your finger at the most convenient target. Says a lot about character. Quit bitching about what W is or isn’t doing if you’re sitting on your ass and not doing a damn thing yourself.
It’s not his fault, but his response has been lame. He should be based down there, hands-on, which at least would boost the morale of those affected. Making one flyover in a jet, going about other business (some anniversary nonsense), making token visits to the Red Cross in WASHINGTON (big hardship), is pathetic. He should be shoulder to shoulder with Nagin and the governor. He should be making things happen.
I think Bush has visited twice, plus his flyover.
How many times did Clinton visit St Louis when the Mississippi flooded in the mid 1990s? When did he time his visits? Who cares. Clintons response was similar to Bushs.
The media did not second guess Clinton, yet all I hear is second guessing of Bush.
Stop playing politics with a natural disaster!
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I think Bush has visited twice, plus his flyover.
How many times did Clinton visit St Louis when the Mississippi flooded in the mid 1990s? When did he time his visits? Who cares. Clintons response was similar to Bushs.
The media did not second guess Clinton, yet all I hear is second guessing of Bush.
Stop playing politics with a natural disaster![/quote]
How many died in that flood? How many starved to death on their roof tops? It is estimated that there may be 10,000 people dead in New Orleans and you are comparing this to a flood in the 1990’s? Was that a national disaster?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
How many died in that flood? How many starved to death on their roof tops? It is estimated that there may be 10,000 people dead in New Orleans and you are comparing this to a flood in the 1990’s? Was that a national disaster?
[/quote]
Yeah - I think it was. Oh maybe there weren’t nearly as many school buses left sitting unused in the bus yard, and maybe the local governments actually did something to help their jurisdictions prepare, or evacuate - but it was a disaster nonetheless.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
How many died in that flood? How many starved to death on their roof tops? It is estimated that there may be 10,000 people dead in New Orleans and you are comparing this to a flood in the 1990’s? Was that a national disaster?
Yeah - I think it was. Oh maybe there weren’t nearly as many school buses left sitting unused in the bus yard, and maybe the local governments actually did something to help their jurisdictions prepare, or evacuate - but it was a disaster nonetheless. [/quote]
I’m not saying it wasn’t a disaster. Hurricane Ivan was also a disaster, along with 4 others. My entire area was fucked up by it. That wasn’t the point. I don’t compare even the damage of Hurricane Ivan to that just seen by Katrina. I am wondering what makes this flood that much more different that it gets set right next to New Orleans in terms of comparable damage and lives lost.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
There is NO “spinning” out of this one. The Katrina scenerio was one of the TOP THREE worst things that could have happened to the United States according to FEMA in 2001 – yet Bush diverted flood control funding to his war in Iraq. (Where most of the Louisiana Natl Guard is and watches helplessly as their homes and families get washed away BTW)
[/quote]
JTF, you’re an idiot. I can’t think of a nicer way to put it. The New Orleans City emergency plan for hurricans clearly states who is responsible: “As established by the City of New Orleans Charter, the government has jurisdiction and responsibility in disaster response. City government shall coordinate its efforts through the Office of Emergency Preparedness.”
It clearly states who is responsible for evacuating the city: "The authority to order the evacuation of residents threatened by an approaching hurricane is conferred to the Governor by Louisiana Statute. The Governor is granted the power to direct and compel the evacuation of all or part of the population from a stricken or threatened area within the State, if he deems this action necessary for the preservation of life or other disaster mitigation, response or recovery.
The same power to order an evacuation conferred upon the Governor is also delegated to each political subdivision of the State by Executive Order. This authority empowers the chief elected official of New Orleans, the Mayor of New Orleans, to order the evacuation of the parish residents threatened by an approaching hurricane."
It acknowledges that they would have to help move large portions of the population: "The City of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas. Those evacuated will be directed to temporary sheltering and feeding facilities as needed. When specific routes of progress are required, evacuees will be directed to those routes. Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific life saving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed. …
Evacuation procedures for small scale and localized evacuations are conducted per the SOPs of the New Orleans Fire Department and the New Orleans Police Department. However, due to the sheer size and number of persons to be evacuated, should a major tropical weather system or other catastrophic event threaten or impact the area, specifically directed long range planning and coordination of resources and responsibilities efforts must be undertaken." From: http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26
But because the local officials didn’t follow their own plan, you want to blame Bush.
Now add the fact that Gov. Blanco refused to ALLOW federal takeover of the evacuation on Friday PM., then more than 100 schools busses sat idle near the Superdome parking lot while citizens were stranded, and Gov. Blanco did NOT initiate the multi-state compact for assistance until Wed.(http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/4/124905.shtml), & I think even you can figure out who carries most of the blame.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I think Bush has visited twice, plus his flyover.
How many times did Clinton visit St Louis when the Mississippi flooded in the mid 1990s? When did he time his visits? Who cares. Clintons response was similar to Bushs.
![/quote]
You’re talking about a two disasters of completely different magnitudes Zap. This is possibly the largest natural disaster in America’s history. Where is the strong and decisive leadership needed from Bush?